Expression system - yea or nay

[Loud Librarian]

I've searched and read threads on the ES, just fishing for any new opinions. I'm going for a Taylor 12 string, just undecided about the ES vs. a soundhole pickup, such as the Sunrise like Leo uses.

 

The ES system adds about $240 to the price of the new guitar, about the same as the Sunrise.

 

Currently I'm running my acoustics through a tube amp (I know, I know, not the best) as I play both clean electric and acoustic in one of my bands.

 

The Sunrise you can dial down the poles to avoid the "hot B string" thing.

 

I'll shut up now...ES yea or nay?

[Whalebot]

Nay, get a k&K pure western mini

[Freeman Keller]

All I know is what I've been reading here

 

http://69.41.173.82/forums/index.php

 

The second forum is almost all T-talk (some of it ES-talk), the third is all the electric stuff

 

To summarize the little bit I've gleened from lurking this forum is that there were two generations of ES - the first was almost universally disliked while the second (which is what Taylor did under warranty to the fix the first) seems to be pretty well accepted. Most of those folks wouldn't say "poop" if they stepped in it and there were some pretty strong comments about the first generation.

 

Also, a recent issue of Acoustic Guitar mag (had a chrome reso on the cover) had a good summary of different types of pickups. I know you can download the article from the AG website.

[Loud Librarian]

Thanks for the article idea, FK. Here it is for anyone else who hasn't read it:

 

http://www.acousticguitar.com/article/165/165,7096,FEATURE-1.asp

[Freeman Keller]

Here is one more

 

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm

[DonK]

I love mine. I had a previous 414ce and a 410ce with the traditonal piezo and the Expression system sounds way more natural to me.

[Freeman Keller]

and yet another

 

http://69.41.173.82/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1103

 

I voted for the pizza

[T.B.]

Originally posted by Whalebot

Nay, get a k&K pure western mini

 

 

I agree Whalebot.

[pschaafs]

I bought a 514 CE a couple years ago and took it back because of the ES - I hated it! It didn't sound right, and the pickup dialed in a lot of noise. I really wanted it to work because I loved the guitar but it didn't because the pickup was SO bad...

[zb0430]

I've had nothing but praise about the sound of the ES in my 814. It's a 2005 model, so I can't speak for any older models, but you can get a great, natural sound out of it with VERY few feedback issues, much less than traditional pickups that blend sources such as a piezo and an internal mic.

 

You'll hear alot of this:

 

People that don't like Taylors, generally hate the ES.

 

People that like/own Taylors, generally have positives to say, with the exception being that batch of first generation, 2003 ES's.

 

There are better sounding pickups, I'm sure, but for a nice, balanced, low impedence signal with above average reproduction of the natural sound, the ES is a breeze to use, and you don't even need a DI anymore.

 

Take it for what it's worth, I'm an owner... ;-)

[recordingtrack1]

I have a 315 Jumbo CE Limited with the Expression Sytem in it. Magnificent! I have been truly impressed with mine since day one. It is second generation and in my opinion, well worth the money.

 

RT1:thu:

[57GLDTP]

I have a 2nd generation ES loaded 814CE. It's very natural

sounding & has been bullet proof so far. I also own a Larrivee

SD50 w/ a K&K Western Mini in it. That is a great sounding

pickup as well. I just purchased a Larrivee 12 banger & will

be installing another Western mini in that.

 

The Taylor ES is a very powerful system that no longer requires

the use of a DI. That is a great benefit for many people.

 

The Western mini is way less costly than the $240. upcharge for

Taylors ES but, you will need a good DI &/or preamp to drive it

properly.

 

My .02

 

57GT:)

[zb0430]

 

Originally posted by 57GLDTP I have a 2nd generation ES loaded 814CE. It's very natural sounding & has been bullet proof so far. I also own a Larrivee SD50 w/ a K&K Western Mini in it. That is a great sounding pickup as well. I just purchased a Larrivee 12 banger & will be installing another Western mini in that. The Taylor ES is a very powerful system that no longer requires the use of a DI. That is a great benefit for many people. The Western mini is way less costly than the $240. upcharge for Taylors ES but, you will need a good DI &/or preamp to drive it properly. My .02 57GT:)

 

 

What pre-amp/DI do you use with the K & K? I've not done my research, but I've been recommended the Countryman DI by a few guys. I'm looking at a second acoustic, maybe a GS which I would be adding a pickup to and the K & K Wester mini has been thoroughly recommended many times...

[EvilTwin]

I've only heard the ES in big venues. Ed Robertson from Barenaked Ladies uses ES-equipped Taylors now (he used to use Larrivee L-09's with a Fishman Matrix), and they do sound more natural than a lot of UST's. With hard strumming, the ES doesn't quack like an angry mallard.

 

But they do sound a little strident, IMO. I think K&K's PW and the L.R. Baggs i-Beam may be a little truer to the instrument's inherrent timbre, but the ES is no slouch, either...and it may be a little more feedback resistant.

 

FWIW, I think the acoustic tone of most Taylors is a little strident, so I'd LOVE to hear what the ES could do on something else.

[WaveRay]

I have a 2003 12 string Taylor with the ES. I don't, at this point play it often plugged in but hope to at some point down the line. I will check the Taylor site but wonder if anybody here knows how to tell if I have an old ES or a later, better one.

 

Thanks,

Ray

[t60 fan]

Both of my 2004 ES systems have worked perfectly so far, and they are so easy to use.

[WaveRay]

Originally posted by t60 fan Both of my 2004 ES systems have worked perfectly so far, and they are so easy to use.

 

I've used mine a few times and it seemed to be just fine. I didn't really ask it for too much, though so I'm not sure.

You guys who have had problems, could you elaborate a bit about what was going on with it?

 

[DenverDave]

 

Originally posted by zb0430 You'll hear alot of this: People that don't like Taylors, generally hate the ES. People that like/own Taylors, generally have positives to say, with the exception being that batch of first generation, 2003 ES's.

 

 

I know about 15 people who own Taylors with the ES pickups (I'm not one of them). Nine of them like it, six of them don't - all but one are using the newer (post 2003) ES pickups...

 

So - YMMV. I use K&K and love it...

[DonK]

Originally posted by zb0430 I've had nothing but praise about the sound of the ES in my 814. It's a 2005 model, so I can't speak for any older models, but you can get a great, natural sound out of it with VERY few feedback issues, much less than traditional pickups that blend sources such as a piezo and an internal mic. You'll hear alot of this: People that don't like Taylors, generally hate the ES. People that like/own Taylors, generally have positives to say, with the exception being that batch of first generation, 2003 ES's. There are better sounding pickups, I'm sure, but for a nice, balanced, low impedence signal with above average reproduction of the natural sound, the ES is a breeze to use, and you don't even need a DI anymore. Take it for what it's worth, I'm an owner... ;-)

 

I think you nailed it.

[57GLDTP]

 

Originally posted by zb0430 What pre-amp/DI do you use with the K & K? I've not done my research, but I've been recommended the Countryman DI by a few guys. I'm looking at a second acoustic, maybe a GS which I would be adding a pickup to and the K & K Wester mini has been thoroughly recommended many times...

 

 

 

I use a Fishman Platinum preamp DI. It has a good deal of EQ

sweep, a notch, phathom power & a pre-post EQ setting that

makes it very versatile. I like it. It even worked well w/ my Piezos

before I discovered the K&K.

 

57GT:)

[57GLDTP]

 

Originally posted by WaveRay I have a 2003 12 string Taylor with the ES. I don't, at this point play it often plugged in but hope to at some point down the line. I will check the Taylor site but wonder if anybody here knows how to tell if I have an old ES or a later, better one. Thanks, Ray

 

 

The new version was 04. Some of the 03's had problems but not all.

57GT:)

[57GLDTP]

 

Originally posted by WaveRay I've used mine a few times and it seemed to be just fine. I didn't really ask it for too much, though so I'm not sure. You guys who have had problems, could you elaborate a bit about what was going on with it?

 

 

 

Anywhere from hot B strings to crapping out all together.

 

Most of them would just stop working at all.

 

57GT:)

[mojito]

I have the ES in my late 2004 made 614CE. I have had no issues whatsoever with the ES. I think it is great.