Worship Leader trouble AGAIN

[guit30]

I know lots of folk here play in worship bands. I mentioned this last year. Well, trouble is back. I went to play at 7 last night and they had moved up practice time to 6:45, without telling me or others. I set up quickly, my channel was dead, they had to get someone who was in the building, she fixed it in 2 seconds, sounded great when it popped on , until it was turned down. I was told the order of songs, then the leader didn't follow them. From what I could hear of my guitar in the monitor, it sounded great with my new compressor. A friend of mine was in the crowd,(Ididn't know he was there) He later told me that he couldn't hear my guitar at all, as the fiddle player told me that he couldn't hear it on any monitor. The last song comes around and the leader tells me he changed the key from C to D and since I didn't have a capo not to play. I don't use capos(have one in my case for this, but it wasn't on my guitar), I played anyway , I'm not a dope, I don't need a capo to transpose c to d.

I called the pastor that runs the study this morning and said, that's it. I've done everything that I've been told for too long and just get my guitar turned off. He told me not to worry about, that there had been other complaints. We will seee, the continuing saga

Jim

[DonK]

Sorry to hear about that, Jim. Guy doesn't sound like much of a worship leader, since that sounds like pretty rude behavior (and disorganized to boot). Our leader maintains a website using software called Ministry Manager (I think his friend developed it). It contains a calendar that shows rehearsal dates and times, who's singing/playing, etc. It also has a catalog of all the songs we do: you can view any song's lyrics, print a leadsheet, listen to the song, and transpose it to any key. He's a great guy to work with. Hope your pastor steps up and takes some action.

[flyfis4fun]

I feel for you, brother. About 4 years ago, I was briefly part of a worship team where the same thing happened. The worship leader wasn't....hmm...how should I put this...terribly humble and on top of it, he wasn't a good guitar player or arranger. Several of us joined the church who had years of playing experience and we quietly served in the background without making a stink for a number of months.

 

As the months went on, we began to offer a few arrangement ideas as well as song suggestions. It became immediately apparent that the leader felt threatened by this. Soon, we were no longer in the main mix and were told to not overplay. A few weeks later, we were moved to the back row and now couldn't even ourselves in the monitor. Finally, they just iced us out of the worship team and asked us not to come back. To this day, I cannot tell you anything that we did that was egocentric or a threat to the worship leader but yet we still got booted.

 

There is happy ending to this story. A few months later, I really felt the Lord calling me into youth ministry and back to my small, rural hometown church. The husband and wife who led worship were extremely humble and excited to learn new songs and arrangements and have been a total joy to work with. On top of that, I now have a worship team of teens who really are doing some great things.

 

All I can tell you is this. Humble yourself before the Lord and ask him where He wants you to serve. Doors will either open or close which will allow you to be where He wants you to be. Though my time at the old church was unpleasent, I learned so many things about how not to treat people, how to serve in humility and how to be a leader that it was actually worth it.

[carguy]

 

Originally posted by flyfis4fun I feel for you, brother. About 4 years ago, I was briefly part of a worship team where the same thing happened. The worship leader wasn't....hmm...how should I put this...terribly humble and on top of it, he wasn't a good guitar player or arranger. Several of us joined the church who had years of playing experience and we quietly served in the background without making a stink for a number of months. As the months went on, we began to offer a few arrangement ideas as well as song suggestions. It became immediately apparent that the leader felt threatened by this. Soon, we were no longer in the main mix and were told to not overplay. A few weeks later, we were moved to the back row and now couldn't even ourselves in the monitor. Finally, they just iced us out of the worship team and asked us not to come back. To this day, I cannot tell you anything that we did that was egocentric or a threat to the worship leader but yet we still got booted. There is happy ending to this story. A few months later, I really felt the Lord calling me into youth ministry and back to my small, rural hometown church. The husband and wife who led worship were extremely humble and excited to learn new songs and arrangements and have been a total joy to work with. On top of that, I now have a worship team of teens who really are doing some great things. All I can tell you is this. Humble yourself before the Lord and ask him where He wants you to serve. Doors will either open or close which will allow you to be where He wants you to be. Though my time at the old church was unpleasent, I learned so many things about how not to treat people, how to serve in humility and how to be a leader that it was actually worth it.

 

 

 

Very good advice. I'm a firm believer in everything happening for the best.

[kwakatak]

From what I can tell, he's the only weak link in the chain and it sounds like the pastor may be digging out the bolt-cutters.

 

FWIW, my church's band is nowhere near as organized as yours. Everyone's heart seems to be in the right place though. Also, with the arrival of a new music director to oversee all the musical groups (choir, bell choir, praise band, etc.) the weekly practices are much better-organized than they used to be - though there certainly is room for technical improvement.

[guit30]

Guys,

Thanks so much for your support and prayers. Ten years ago when my guitar playing was at a higher level, basically cause of health, I played in a group that awesome, everyone was on the same page, bass player, keyboard, and 2 guitars and a couple extra singers.

The Pastor told me others had said stuff, don't know why he feels threatened, he's not a very good guitarist, he can't keep the tempo, he's always changing it. I'm loving to be able to play some again, I'm just going to leave it in the Lord's hands. The soundboard guy does not have much of a good attitude, I sat with him one time, he talked the whole time during the message.

Jim

[DenverDave]

I've been through a lot of different issues with more music pastors than I care to remember, both as a church sound tech and as a guitar player. Patience is a hard thing, but is probably necessary. If it gets to the point you are about to break your guitar over the worship guys head (and I've been there), take a month of two off. The stress isn't worth it. We are between worship leaders right now, and it is a bit disorganized - but we have some good musicians in place so hopefully things can go smoothly until we hire someone new..

[Bilbo]

I've had more problems working with Christians than with secular musicians. The way I figure it, they're a hundred percent improved, but still fifty percent insane.

 

Don't play their games, tell them in plain language, and draw very clear lines. Some, not all, Christian musicians who haven't been in the professional scene have twisted egos, and always need to prove something. Set clear boundaries, and don't let them try to manipulate. And always forgive.

[guit30]

Maybe I'll take a couple of weeks off and just listen

Jim

[STEELSTRINGS]

This must be a common problem, but I have noticed that the more talented the musician/praise and worship leader is, the less trouble we seem to have. Problem is , they don't seem to stick around. The lady who's "leading" now really isn't interested in leading. She's gassing up this other guy to take it over. He knows very little about music and doesn't sing or lead that well. They want me eventualy to play guitar and they want other musicians but I am greatly concerned that they want this guy to "lead".The main thing everyone else notices about him is that he has little control and holds nothing back. No telling what key he might sing in but most likely the key of " JUST PLAIN X----CITED!!!". We'll see how it all turns out.

[Tony Burns]

Its hard dealing with other folks in a music group , sometimes there seems to be more chiefs than indians sometimes and everyone thinks they run the show - in most cases they weed themselves out and the cream rises to the top - just be patient and keep smiling , especially when it comes to playing in a church - just remember the real reason why your their and think about WWJD -- good luck my friend ( I went threw this years ago )

[STEELSTRINGS]

just remember the real reason why your their and think about WWJD

Excellent advice.

[guitarist21]

Originally posted by STEELSTRINGS Excellent advice.

 

Agreed. As a worship leader myself, I worry about stories like this and others that paint leaders like me in the "worship nazi" light (as they've been called). While I have met a few worship leaders who are complete jerks, most are just trying to do their best. Especially in cases such as mine, where I'm younger than several of the band members, we're just trying to get things done without arguments.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes this means we do dumb things. I, for one, will admit to once turning off the mic of a terrible singer. She really honestly wanted to be involved, but MAN was she bad. Thing is, she didn't know. She learned that her mic had been turned off and she was a little upset. Someone (not me, thankfully) told her she just wasn't singing well, and we found other areas of worship for her to be involved. Turns out she's great at reading and reads a lot of scripture for us during a service.

 

I hope I don't imply that you're bad, Jim, I'm sure you're not. But we worship leaders are a fallable bunch. We try, but sometimes we mess up.

[guit30]

I am very confident of my skills and know my limitations, I have not blown myself in this situation and don't want to, it is just spiritually draining dealing with this. Every other musician in this group is excellent. I know it is difficult being a leader, been there, but this borderline behavior is too much.

Jim

[recordingtrack1]

Hang in there Jim. It sounds like this guy is going to shortly self destruct on his on. You'll have nothing to feel guilty about.

 

JMO,

 

RT1:)

[zb0430]

Sounds like a great ministry opportunity. If it's where God has you, then maybe it's your place to witness with actions and forgiveness, not by shunning him or counting the days till he's gone...

 

Not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure...

 

Seriously though, I know how you feel and I also know how guitarist21 feels. It's difficult being the youngest member of the group but having front-man reponsibilities...

 

But, if you stay focused on the point of a music ministry, praising God, things will work out... I promise, and God has promised us that. But you already knew all that

 

A thing I had to remind myself of more than once:

 

Competence and a professional sound are goals, not fruits of the Spirit.

[pjc]

 

Originally posted by guit30 I know lots of folk here play in worship bands. I mentioned this last year. Well, trouble is back. I went to play at 7 last night and they had moved up practice time to 6:45, without telling me or others. I set up quickly, my channel was dead, they had to get someone who was in the building, she fixed it in 2 seconds, sounded great when it popped on , until it was turned down. I was told the order of songs, then the leader didn't follow them. From what I could hear of my guitar in the monitor, it sounded great with my new compressor. A friend of mine was in the crowd,(Ididn't know he was there) He later told me that he couldn't hear my guitar at all, as the fiddle player told me that he couldn't hear it on any monitor. The last song comes around and the leader tells me he changed the key from C to D and since I didn't have a capo not to play. I don't use capos(have one in my case for this, but it wasn't on my guitar), I played anyway , I'm not a dope, I don't need a capo to transpose c to d. I called the pastor that runs the study this morning and said, that's it. I've done everything that I've been told for too long and just get my guitar turned off. He told me not to worry about, that there had been other complaints. We will seee, the continuing saga Jim

 

 

 

Why did you bypass the leader and go straight to the pastor?

[KATMAN]

Have been in this position as well.It's not cool when they change times and don't tell you. Luckily,our current pastor is our worship leader. We do not have a paid worship leader,and the one who could do it is our pianist. We also do all live sound,we need to get a bigger bass amp though.

 

Just a couple of questions.(1) How do the other members feel about the worship leader? (2) Is everybody treated the same way?(3) Could it be a bad sound man with a bad attitude?

 

If all of you feel the same way,you all need to have a sit down meeting with the pastor.Spill your guts out all together. If this don't happen,nothing might not change.Anyway,hoping all thigs work out.

[guit30]

_Wow, thanks for more feedback, this was all gone thru last year, I talked with the Worship leader many times, This experience he has had with other people, the other musicians feel the same way. I have been nothing but nice to this guy, last year he wanted me to quit playing and help the soundman. This summer we had a couple of practices with the head worship leader of our church there, huge church (Calvary Chapel of Philly) 7000 members, many worship teams. Also the head soundboard guy was there to help our soundman who realy can't run the huge 48 track board by himself, he sets stuff once, and doesn't change it, I watched him once. He wants everyone to turn their instruments up all of the way, then he sets the sound. Problem is the worship leader doesn't like hearing my guitar, so he gradually turns his up, and by the end of the worship, he is super loud.

I went to the Pastor cause this is like Deja Vu, I love to play, but it is painful and if I'm going to get drowned out all of the time, what is the use?

God Bless

JIm

[kwakatak]

OT: I'm having a little trouble getting perspective on this one. One thing I am struck by is how well-organized most folks' praise teams seem to be. As I stated earlier, my own church's praise band is not so self-sufficient since we're just getting started, really.

 

That being said, it sounds like your team's leader is not completely autonomous. It also sounds like others have approached your pastor about this very thing before you did. If anything, your complaint just adds to all the others as reason to have him pulled. As I tried to illustrate earlier, the wheels may be in motion to have him removed so I would wait and see what happens.

 

BTW - how was this guy appointed in the first place?

[recordingtrack1]

quote

___________________________

originally posted by Guit30

 

He wants everyone to turn their instruments up all of the way, then he sets the sound. Problem is the worship leader doesn't like hearing my guitar, so he gradually turns his up, and by the end of the worship, he is super loud.

___________________________

 

Hey Jim,

I used to play in a band with a guy that insisted on playing so loud it totally whacked our stage mix. We eventually got rid of him but for the year or so that he played with us, we didn't run him through the mix. He never even knew it. He would show up at sound check and we would mix him in until he agreed that he sounded right and then we'd just pull his gains all the way down.

The end result was that the main mix wasn't so bad, though it was deafening on stage sometimes.

 

Not that this helps your problem much, I just remembered it and thought it was interesting.

 

I still say to just hang in there and wait. Things will work out.

 

RT1

[guit30]

Another member who still is in the group was the leader for years and had to pull back, this guy stepped in. I have been really sick for the last couple of days so I haven't given it much thought, I guess what bothers me is that the sound guy isn't very friendly to me, I have no reason why. This is supposed to a Christian group ,praising Christ, I hate to Quote Rodney King but"Can't We all just get along?" As I said earlier at another Church I was in a much better worship team, we had fun, practiced twice a month, and we talked our problems out, some of these people are unapproachable. I'm going to seriously pray about it, I think one thing that would help is to move me back to the other side of the stage behind the Worship leader so I can follow him better and also, he wouldn't my guitar as much in his monitor, there are 3 monitor mixes on the stage.

One strange thing is that the worship leader has aspecial powered monitor with speakers like from a recording studio with a huge amp. Never understood the need for this, the regular worship leaders don't abuse it

Jim

:wave:

[Sweb]

Solo.

 

It's already physically painful to play on top of which you take on a psychological jab. Man, you've got staying power. Hang in there. What do they say? Good medicine tastes bad?

 

I'd have bailed by now. I have played with many, many people who, for whatever reason or excuse, don't fit into a band environment. Maybe it's me. I bail at the first sign of politics because I like to play guitar and make music and won't let anyone or anything turn it into a chore. The only higher power to my playing is the music itself. I have zero patience with anyone who messes with that. What I don't do is try to make it work. It's easy to spot the fifth wheels in a band (prima donia's) and I don't need to tolerate or pandor to any of that crap to make my life work for me. Like Mr. Dylan says, "My legs wait for my bootheels to go wanderin' " - out the door.

[recordingtrack1]

Whoa Sweb,

 

That was, like, . . . perfectly said, man. Well done.

 

 

RT

[guit30]

Boy, you guys are great, what makes me stay, I love to play guitar and this is my perfect outlet, can't do the coffeehouse thing anymore, I can only play about 15 minutes at a time, last time i played, my left hand went numb and I had nerve pain on the second song, but I kept playing, I could hear myself in the monitor in front of me, had no idea that no one else could hear me. The keyboard player and the fiddle player and myself are good friends, so they are on my side , the fiddle player told me he couldn't hear my guitar in the monitors. I don't know if this is a conspiracy between the soundguy and the leader or not. The main group never complains of problem with the system, it is old stuff, like real old monitors, the soundbooth was handmade and has a 48 track Paragon mixing board and about 3000 watts of power, the sides of the auditorium even has sound baffles on the walls.

Jim