Downtuning a 12 string - gauges etc.

[Loud Librarian]

Well, I ordered a Taylor 355ce from Guitar Rodeo (great price). I plan on tuning it in open tunings, mostly G and D, sometimes C, but a whole tone lower - really F, C, and Bb respectively.

 

While I'm waiting, I'm wondering what string gauges you 12 string players are using, and for what tunings.

 

Here's how the Taylor LKSM is setup tuned to C#:

 

.013/.013, .017/.017, .014/.030, .018/.038, .026/.047, .035/.056

 

Here's how Chris Proctor sets his up for a whole step lower in the open tunings I described above:

 

.013/.013, .017/.017, .010/.025, .012/.036, .024/.046, 036/.058

 

Thanks, LL

[Yhz]

I would pot Medium Gauge AKA 0.13-0.56 like Kottke does and first tune it to C# and if its too low for you (bass response) you can even get heaver 0.58 on the bass OR you can tune to D (one step down instead of one and a half steps down), i think the minimum pressure on a 12 string with medium to heavy strings MUST be at least one step down becouse there is much more pressure on the neck then on a 6 string...

[Freeman Keller]

'morning Loud.

Here is something that might help.

UMGF FAQ string tension chart

The 12 string stuff is at the bottom. A couple of observations - first, not every manufacture puts the same gauge strings in a set - not the differences in "lights". Second, I believe that what you want to do is try to stay close to the guitars makers recommendations for the tension on the top (certainly not exceed it). Your taylor is designed for concert with lights (Elixers), and as you can see, each 1/2 step is 10 percent or so reduction in tension.

However, if you look at the difference between the tension on a six and 12 (160 to 260 for example) and remember that many 12's have very similar tops and bracing as their 6 string cousins (however your taylor will have a thickier top plate and bridge plate and one more tone bar). That is why I personally think a 12 should be tuned down anyway - just for long life.

To answer your question - I string my Martin dread with Elixer lights, tune down 2 half steps for "standard" and down from there for open G, D or C. I have a nice low action and straight neck and have no problems with fretting out, buzzes, etc. I play a lot of slide in these tunings and it works just fine.

I have tried going to C# with mediums - it works but the git doesn't really sound as good. The dread is too bassy to start with - it just doesn't like a LKSM or a Stella or a Bozo in that low tuning. I've never tried the Kottke set on it (remember that a LKSM is braced a little different from your 355).

So for me, lights work just fine but mediums might be the better choice. Have fun.

You might also enjoy hangin' out at the Cafe'

12 String Cafe'

Oh, one more thing - they say that Ledbelly tuned his Stella to C with 0.016 to 0.060's

[Loud Librarian]

Thanks Freeman for the good links and info, I'll proceed with caution. Can't wait to get it and tune it down to the lower voice.

One more question - did you have each string intonated separately (a big job) or are you fine with it "as is?"

I want to be able to play up the neck and if the intonation is off on the octave strings that will drive me crazy. In Proctor's video he mentions that he had a wider saddle put in and the octave and main strings intonated separately.

[Freeman Keller]

Originally posted by Loud Librarian Thanks Freeman for the good links and info, I'll proceed with caution. Can't wait to get it and tune it down to the lower voice. One more question - did you have each string intonated separately (a big job) or are you fine with it "as is?" I want to be able to play up the neck and if the intonation is off on the octave strings that will drive me crazy. In Proctor's video he mentions that he had a wider saddle put in and the octave and main strings intonated separately.

 

 

I had the neck reset on my 12 last year and one of the things that Bryan Kimsey did was cut a new nut and saddle for it. The nut slots were cut for the string set that I sent with it (I asked for the tops of all the strings to be level for slide), and Bryan did intonate each string of each course. It had never played very much in tune up the neck and now it does. He charges something like 60 bucks for this, but IMHO it was well worth it. For those folks that are going to strum in the first position there is no need, but if you play up the neck do consider it.

 

I'm currently building a 12 and it is my intention to try to do this myself. I might go thru a few saddle blanks but I think it is a good thing. However, try yours first - the Taylors that I have played have all sounded pretty darn good.

 

Proctor also spaces the courses a little wider so he can pick each string individually. I kinda do this by attacking with my thumb (to get more treble) or finger (for more bass). You may not want to just assign the thumb to the bottom three and fingers to the top (old Leo trick).

[t60 fan]

As I've posted previously, I drop my Taylor 354 a half step, and it works and sounds fantastic. Holds its tune so well I am constantly amazed. I love it.

[Freeman Keller]

Originally posted by t60 fan As I've posted previously, I drop my Taylor 354 a half step, and it works and sounds fantastic. Holds its tune so well I am constantly amazed. I love it.

 

 

What strings on the 354?

[t60 fan]

Originally posted by Freeman Keller What strings on the 354?

 

 

I bought it in late June this year and still haven't taken the original Elixirs off it. Sounds too great to think of it.