From A Beginners Point of view

[t-harper]

Ok, let me be serious here. That is if I can.

 

First off this site is wonderful. But it gives me a serious case of GAS. This guitar is killer, No this one fits my hands better, Oh shoot that one is much better sounding and looking. I really love the techno comments about guitars here. But it get's me in a really deep purchasing mood.

 

So Here we go, for a beginner.

 

First off start with any guitar you are given. Or if your going to purchase look for some of the qualities found here on the threads.

 

But what makes it a good point to really start thinking about a new guitar. First off, you have dropped it and it's all broken is a good place to start. Or stepped on it while moving your bed into a new room. (Evil laugh!)

 

Should a beginner really start looking at a new guitar when they can play (what number of songs) let say 20 good songs, well above "Marry had a little lamb". Or should they wait until one of the fret bars fall off?

 

When a personal transition appears in their playing. Like moving from camp fire songs, to blues? Or moving from instruction book songs, to spanish classical?

 

Does the pick guard really have to fall off their first one, before they look into another guitar, rather than putting on a new pick guard on?

 

Besides their first guitar falling appart, or for young players, they just out grew it's size. When should you progress from your first $200 - $300 guitar? And what price point should you look at for your second one?

 

I admire the $1,000 - $3,000 guitars deeply. All recomended here from Harmony. But honestly looking at this, and using playing ability as a mark to purchase one of these. What should be a good second step up for a second guitar? $400 - $600 price point being good. Or should the second one be more like $600 - $1,000 to get a good step up?

 

I understand the fact of how it fits my hands to make a good axe. Or the fact of sound also being a good place to look at for my choice in style of play.

 

I'm talking about quality of wood being a good choice, compaired to price. And Lastability of playing for the second step in ones style of play. One that last up into and maybe past their continued growth learning this diverse instrument.

 

Thank you all for looking at this set of questions. And any responses that you give.

 

Thomas

[Freeman Keller]

Thomas, welcome to both HC and GAS

 

Let me take you on my little journey with these beasties

 

I bought my first guitar in 1969 - a good quality "beginners" guitar for a hundred bucks (a big deal for a struggling college student). Learned some chords, played some folkie stuff, didn't know much. I still have that guitar today and play it and love it (see the Retro-Grouch thread).

 

Sometime in the 70's I had to have a Martin. Didn't know why but I was trying to play some bluegrass and that seemed to be the git, so I bought a nice used D-18 for 800 bucks. Didn't learn much bluegrass, but I was starting to play some blues and heard a couple of guys named Fahey and Kottke and, damn, figured I better get a 12 string.

 

Bought a piece of junk, er, fine Yahama 12 string (still had my Yamaha 6) and never could play it. It was like trying to fret the Golden Gate Bridge. Unloaded it, er, sold it for not too much of a loss, but never lost the GAS for a 12 (too much Leo)

 

But I was listening to a lot of the old bluesmen and figured if I was going to play the blues, I better get a blues ax. Took my old bottleneck to all the vintage music stores and played a lot of old resonators (didn't know much about them but I sure loved that sound), finally found a single cone that followed me home (paid a grand for it - did know if that was good or not). Showed it to a friend at a music store and he said he knew of another one - woman would take $200 for her dad's old guitar - so now I had two reso's.

 

Still kind of hung up on 12 strings, I heard of an old Martin 12, played it and it followed me home (another 800 dollar git). I learned later that the reason it played so nice was that the saddle was filed down to nothing - it cost me 700 to have the neck reset and everything fixed (you know, that was exactly what was wrong with the first one). Also had the D-18 fixed up - it was starting to show its age (800 more in reset and repairs).

 

By now I was pretty much a fingerstyle player - blues, "American Primative", old folkies stuff. I'd go in a store an play a small bodied git and say to my wife "you know, a guitar like this really fits my style...". A couple of years ago she surprised me with a little Taylor GA - a wonderful fingerstyle guitar. She had been listening and doing some research and shopping on line and .... I play that guitar for her as much as I can. (While I don't know, I'll bet she paid about 800 for that one too).

 

But I'm also an engineer and I'm facinated by how things work and how they are made. Over the years I've made a lot of things just to find out how it was done. And I was reading about guitars and by now doing some adjustments and finally said to my self "self, lets make one". Figured if it didn't turn out I could use it as a canoe paddle. Made one, turned out OK, made another, gave it to my son, made a mandolin (I know four chords and two songs), and now I'm making a 12 string. Believe me, there is something worse than GAS - it is Tool Acquisition Syndrome - I'm currently TAS'ing for a new router.

 

So, play and enjoy the guitar you have - hopefully it will be a life long friend as my Yamaha is. You'll know when it is time to upgrade or branch out - don't rush it. As you play more you'll find guitars that feel right or sound right and many that don't. Some of them will want to follow you home - introduce them to your first one and try to love them all equally. But whatever you do, stay away from that shady character that says "psst, hey friend, you wanna try making a guitar...."

 

I'm going out to the garage to glue some braces on the 12, then I have to practice "Vincent".... See, ya

[Sweb]

Yes, no, don't know, don't care, could be, open to interpretation, depends on you/your music, which way the wind is blowing and, lastly, never. Mix them up as you will. They all apply to all the questions.

 

"What I would do if I were you", is not one of the answers.

 

Seriously, your questions are all good, when not obvious, and it comes down to you, your progression and little else. Your skills develop/progress and you will ultimately find yourself demanding more of an instrument. Your ear will be the most difficult to satisfy. But, only you can do for yourself what you have asked of everyone else here. Otherwise, you are the tail wagging the dog.

 

We all banter about the pros and cons of this make/model over another. That's just a part of this forum. What we individually know about one make/model's features can be helpful but testimonies about playability and sound are pretty useless. It would be like saying the sound of a particular guitar should be recognized as one of the best because MY ear, being recently hailed as a standard in the industry for guitar sound ratings, has made such a judgement call. That established, everyone should go out and buy that guitar. Silly notions like that seem to be left out of the thinking when such questions are posed here.

So, you will have to find your own answers.

[guitarist21]

 

Originally posted by Sweb We all banter about the pros and cons of this make/model over another. That's just a part of this forum. What we individually know about one make/model's features can be helpful but testimonies about playability and sound are pretty useless. It would be like saying the sound of a particular guitar should be recognized as one of the best because MY ear, being recently hailed as a standard in the industry for guitar sound ratings, has made such a judgement call. That established, everyone should go out and buy that guitar.

 

 

Well said, Sweb.

 

There hasn't been a thread in the past few days that I haven't brought up Epiphone Masterbilts on, but I bring it up knowing it won't work for everyone. I was lucky to find a guitar that works great for me and I hope that in bringing it up, someone else will find a guitar that works well for them.

 

About all your questions about price, Thomas, I'd just say that that's a decision that you need to make. How much are you willing to spend on a guitar? Every price range has its own beauties and beasts and every guitar player has his own opinion on which guitar is the beauty and which is the beast.

 

 

Originally posted by Sweb So you will have to find your own answers.

Sometimes that's just the case. Good luck!

 

Ellen

[allthumz]

Welcome! This is a fine site with really good people who like to help.

 

I believe that in the beginning, you should start cheap but good. Art & Lutherie, Washburn, Yamaha, Alvarez. As you develop your tastes and playing style, you may want to move up to better guitars or you might be happy with what you have. You will know what you want to do as time passes.

 

For my first guitar, a Washburn D12N I went to a shop and had the sales guy play all the guitars that were less than $200 for me. That accomplished two things. I heard what a good player could do with each one and I heard what each one sounded like to the listeners not the player.

 

I bought the guitar that sounded best to me. The Washburn. As it turned out that D12N had a bone saddle that really made it stand out. I had no idea about that though. It just sounded the best to me. The point being, trust yourself and what you like. Then change when you want to change. It is a lot of fun!

 

- Robert

[riffmeister]

it should be easy to fret all along the neck and it should intonate well. for a beginner, everything else is gravy.

[gotboostvr]

freeman, your old yami wouldnt happen to be a nippon red label would?

 

I've had mine for 12 years about. since I was 7.

 

my first guitar. my uncle gave it to me since he bought it new and never learned to play it.

 

the thing is BASIC.

no binding, no ancy inlays, open tuners etc.

 

but its one of the best laying acoustics I've ever played.

 

I went looking for "graduation" presents and wanted either a nice strat or a nice acoustic.

 

I couldn't find a acoustic I liked within my price range that either sounded as good or played as good (almost all of them looked better though!)

 

it's in need of some work though definatley. frets are worn down, it's becoming a bit of a arch top, and the top is lifting in a couple places.

 

but as soon as I get the cash, I won't think twice about getting it refurbished.

[kwakatak]

To me, a new guitar is justified when:

 

1. You've changed your musical focus or even your technique so drastically that the guitar stands in the way of your progress by being difficult to play properly, or...

 

2. The guitar has fallen into disrepair and the cost of repairing and/or upgrading components on it far outweigh the monetary value of the guitar.

 

There are exceptions to this of course. Sometimes a guitar will have sentimental value that trumps monetary value, so it may be worthwhile to put a couple hundred $$$ into it. Other times, maybe you're just looking to diversify a little and the old guitar is still serving a purpose so you just need a new guitar with a different character.

 

For me, budget is always paramount since I don't perform and have a family's financial well-being to think of. While a $3K guitar would be nice, I know that I can find guitars completely adequate for my needs in the sub-$1000 price range. YMMV.

[Freeman Keller]

 

Originally posted by gotboostvr freeman, your old yami wouldnt happen to be a nippon red label would? I've had mine for 12 years about. since I was 7. but its one of the best laying acoustics I've ever played. ...... but as soon as I get the cash, I won't think twice about getting it refurbished.

 

 

Yes, red label. Some pics on this thread - new and old.

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1405822

 

There are several members of this forum who have old Yamahas and really like them. On the other hand, my first 12 string was also a Yamie and it was pretty bad - so I caution people when shopping for them to be careful.

 

Unfortunately, if yours has issues (neck angle, for instance) it could be relatively expensive to have it fixed. Only you can decide if it is. Fortunately mine has remained stable all these years inspite of my attempts to do it damage.

 

btw - when I got my Martin the Yamaha became my campfire git - it went on ski trips and climbing trips and basically sat out on a stand for anyone to pick up and play. I'm taking better care of the old gal now.

[t-harper]

Wow,

 

What a whole bunch to think about. Reading all these replies really gave me alot to think about. And many ideas to inspire me on when I need to think about a change to a new guitar.

 

Freeman, you truly hit a place I'm not at yet. But I can see myself facing that delima in choosing my next git. Making my own guitar would really be a jump for me. Yes I'm capable of doing it, and the TAS syndromne would be in the way. (Laughing, good new acronymn.) I'll still leave making the guitars up to the real ones that can.

 

Sweb, If you only knew my ear. (Really laughing now.) It's kind'a rock-n-roll, mixed in with everything else. One problem I really have is I love all music. Mostly not to fond of rap, or younger age pop. I agree with the intent of your comment, "Please yourself first, everyone else is just helping." What is that song, "Be happy, don't worry."

 

Kwakatak, I agree when it comes down to it, basically, you can find personal legit reasons to move on to the next giutar. It's just the GAS around here is deep. And does drive a new person to look deeper into their first choice of guitar hard. (Espically one like me that didn't go to a music store first.)

 

Allthumz, That is really a great idea on hearing what it can sound like first. Never thought of that way of hearing each guitar your seriously looking at to purchase. (rude thought of having your salesman play every guitar in the shop just to make a choice. And ending up with a $300 guitar after all that.) I understand the thought of screening the guitar down to just a few ones then have them play for a second. What I have hated, mostly on the web, is hearing a demo of the sound. And then trying to compair it to another guitar with a totally different song/style of playing. It would make it much eaiser to hear the guitar played with the same song and player. Just an added note for other new people.

 

I thank the others comments as well, great ideas.

 

I will comment about my first choice. It is a good guitar, just good. The neck is a bit large, can't clasp my middle finger and thumb all the way around it. And it has a problem with the "D String" staying in tune. If you haven't figured it out by now it is an Esteban. Let me just say it isn't as bad as most have commented here, but it is not great either. If any new people are reading this please go to your music store first. I will hammer out atleast a few first Guitar Lesson books before I work out another choice. Which I'm looking into a Taylor for my next choice. My ear and the thinness of the neck is what is driving this choice. (I can get my middle finger and thumb to touch each other all the way up and down the neck.)

 

Anyways, yes ya'll have caught me having my coffee and my morning E-Mail check. Thank you for the help in my search for the next guitar, and calming down the GAS from here.

 

Thomas

[Freeman Keller]

Thomas, one little trick as you try different guitars. Get a cheap little tape recorder and take it with you. Even if you only know a few chords or one song - play it (them) each time you try a new git and record it. Say something into the mic like "this is an Acme X-19 at Bozo's Music, the price is a zillion dollars" then play it. It is amazing what you can hear when you go back and listen to your tape. And don't let the clerk or other people in the store bother you - they were beginners too.

 

This forum is a great place to bounce ideas around - ask people their opinions of different guitars - but remember what they say about opinions - I have one too LOL. Use the HC reviews also, but it seems like everyone that posts a review likes their guitars just fine.

 

And, as my wood working buddies tell me "it is a poor craftsman that blames his tools" - a lot of great music has come out of some pretty unassuming guitars.