The coming Mahogany crisis...

[BlackCustom]

It seems like more and more makers are putting constraints on mahogany.

 

Does Taylor even make a mahogany guitar? There's sapele, which is nice (I own one), but it aint Mahogany.

 

Martin is making fewer models with mahogany. (D-18 - yes, budget models - less and less) The necks are moving to "select hardwood" in many cases, and they're putting wings on many of the mahogany necked guitars.

 

Was it Larivee who has stopped shipping mahogany guitars? (see sapele)

 

My point is, it seems like Honduras Mahogany, which is what most people regard as "mahogany", is becoming less of a given and more of an option at the least.

 

I am reminded that the same thing was true of Brazilian Rosewood in the late sixties, and we know what braz adds to the cost of a guitar these days.

 

So, do you think that "real" mahogany will add to the value of a guitar in the near future? Does mahogany even matter vs. sapele?

 

With all of this, 20 years ago you couldn't get a guitar with a red spruce top...

 

I'm just wondering, feel free to discuss.

[AndrewGG]

Yes, mahogany is disappearing fast. Martin, for one, can no longer guarantee consistent supplies of mahogany hence the non-specific 'select hardwood'. The budget 15 series are now either sapele or mahogany, depending on what stocks they have and if you order one you cannot specify your wood requirements.

 

CFM's wood buyer has gone on record stating that they are actively exploring further options in neckwoods-at the moment it is either Spanish cedar or mahogany but, again, with no guarantee your guitar will arrive with what you expect.

 

I can foresee difficulties in the future for a builder as 'traditional' as Martin with a conservative core customer who expects his guitars to be built with traditional timbers, and who may well take his custom elsewhere to a smaller maker who can still source enough timber for smaller production runs. Martin needs to source enough wood for around 70,000 guitars annually.

 

I don't know that mahogany will add to the value of a guitar in the future-who does-but it will certainly cost you a lot more to have one made as supplies continue to dwindle. It is certainly possible that we will see a time where mahogany Martins become as sought after as their pre-1969 Brazilian rosewood counterparts

[zenbu]

many Japanese builders shifted from Honduras to " African " mahogany a few years ago already. If they don`t list a guitar as Honduras in the catalogs then it ain`t, and they aready charge a premium for H. Personally I can`t hear a difference but there are some visual differences, and what precisely is African mahogany anyways? Is there more than one species? Is is inferior to Honduras or just more abundant...for now? I have a strat type guitar made by P-Project, part of the Fernandes company...it`s the Akira Wada artist model and oil finished and man...it is beautiful. Not figured in the least, just a real nice slab of H. mahogany and I love it to bits. 5 years ago I got it for 75% off list `cause they couldn`t sell it...doubt that would happen today.

[datru]

Many wooden musical intruments are made from endangered woods. A lot of reputable instrument makers have been trying to come up with substitutes.

 

I'm a beginning guitar player and recently got a Martin DX1. It's made with a solid spruce top and formica back and sides. To my ear it sounds great and I'm very happy with it.

 

I did a search on this forum and found that many others like the way it sounds, but would then comment: "I just can't buy a formica guitar."

 

The makers are trying to find a solution to the wood crisis, but will the buyers follow?

[Freeman Keller]

It is interesting that Taylor, who was using sapele as a substitute for H mahogany on their 3xx series has now switched to "african" mahogany. Is this a move up or down?

 

It is also interesting that the much denouced "select hardwood" (Spanish cedar, which I have been told is not really a cedar) was used on some prewar Martins. Traditionally Martin has made their necks out of a single piece of wood - now they are adding the "wings". Taylor and many others build the necks from muliple pieces - with the "finger joint" at the headstock (some builders use a scarf joint) and stacked heel block. All efforts to get more out of a diminishing supply.

 

It has been said that instrument making is a very small precentage of the use of hardwoods (furniture the most) but still when Martin and Taylor each made something like 70,000 guitars last year it still has an impact. I applaud both companies for trying to find substitutes, but I also am glad I have the gits I do.

[AndrewGG]

Originally posted by Freeman Keller

It is interesting that Taylor, who was using sapele as a substitute for H mahogany on their 3xx series has now switched to "african" mahogany. Is this a move up or down?

 

It is also interesting that the much denouced "select hardwood" (Spanish cedar, which I have been told is not really a cedar) was used on some prewar Martins. Traditionally Martin has made their necks out of a single piece of wood - now they are adding the "wings". Taylor and many others build the necks from muliple pieces - with the "finger joint" at the headstock (some builders use a scarf joint) and stacked heel block. All efforts to get more out of a diminishing supply.

 

It has been said that instrument making is a very small precentage of the use of hardwoods (furniture the most) but still when Martin and Taylor each made something like 70,000 guitars last year it still has an impact. I applaud both companies for trying to find substitutes, but I also am glad I have the gits I do.

 

Freeman, I think you will find that sapele and African mahogany are interchangeable terms for the same wood. Several years ago I too owned a Taylor 314 and it was sold to me as African mahogany. Visually it was indistinguishable from sapele with its typical ribbon-like striping and I believe it is the same.

 

On edit: African mahogany is listed as a separate species so perhaps the similarity is such as to allow confusion?

[Freeman Keller]

 

Originally posted by AndrewGG Freeman, I think you will find that sapele and African mahogany are interchangeable terms for the same wood. Several years ago I too owned a Taylor 314 and it was sold to me as African mahogany. Visually it was indistinguishable from sapele with its typical ribbon-like striping and I believe it is the same. On edit: African mahogany is listed as a separate species so perhaps the similarity is such as to allow confusion?

 

 

This was just discussed at the AGF wrt a 314. The conclusion was that they are different woods and that sapele has much more of the ribbon grain.

[Tony Burns]

i think you guys worry too much - theres alot of different woods out their that are super for guitar necks and bodies, as well as many different varieties of Mahogany that work well -- I am betting that many of the bigger builders will have the toughest time because of shear volume , the small builders can buy the wood for a hundred guitars or so and take a few years to use it up while their looking for a Substitute . the furniture builders are the biggest wasters of mahogany , my kitchen table as well as the china cabinet and buffet are all solid mahogany -- if you guys get real desperate Ill trade to you for a Walnut one , betting theres alot of great wood their as well as other furniture , if you get desperate . Im still kicking myself for not buying a solid Brazilain rosewood table i saw a few years ago, probably enough wood in that one to make 15-20 guitar back and sides . guess we all make stupid mistakes , but if i see that puppy again i wont pass on it .