Members Chicken Monkey Posted October 23, 2006 Members Posted October 23, 2006 I've been looking into making one of the ol' Radio Shack buzzer peizo pickups. I've got all the stuff, but haven't tried it out yet--I left my soldering iron at work. Anyone try this out? Any tips?
Members Sweb Posted October 23, 2006 Members Posted October 23, 2006 I read a few write-ups by people who've done this with good results. Well worth your time I think. I remember reading that the biggest challenge was finding the sweet spot on the guitar itself. If I remember correctly, the actual mounting of it was the biggest bug-a-boo. I have an old Shadow transducer that mounts (removable) with that tacky sillyputty stuff and have found that a spot on one guitar does not produce similar results on another guitar. The general area seems to be a radius of the bridge but it migrates from guitar to guitar. One thought. Use the smallest diameter shielded wire you can find if you are going to mount it with that putty stuff otherwise the weight of the cabling, unsupported, will pull the ducer away. Doesn't matter if you have a permanent mount in mind. One guy made a mold from plaster of Paris and encapsulated the ducer along with small (1/8th inch) receptacle. That was for a removable ducer. A permanently mounted type, thru a strap jack, can be hard-wired. Just keep in mind that shielding is important to fend off unwanted RFI. And, if permanently mounted, use as little adhesive as possible and preferrably one that is rigid when cured. Semi-rigid adhesives sample/transfer less of the soundboard frequencies than rigid ones.
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 24, 2006 Members Posted October 24, 2006 I've built several, sandwiching them between wooden discs of the same basic size, using epoxy...there are some theories as to what wood is best, but I'm leaning towards the "it doesn't matter much at all" school-of-thought, and now just use maple. Some folks trim them to be square or rectangular, but you must be VERY careful to not crack the crystal, itself...round works fine, IMABO.
Members Chicken Monkey Posted October 25, 2006 Author Members Posted October 25, 2006 Great! A few follow-up questions: 1. What does IMABO mean? 2. I've never heard of the wood sandwich thing. How thick is the wood? Do you glue the piezo to the wood, or do you glue the two pieces of wood together with the piezo loose in between? 3. If I want to put the piezo inside of the guitar, how do I test my placement? I mean, I've got to take the strings off to put it in there. Do I have to un- and re-string each time, or is there an easy way to test or move the piezo? 4. Can I assume that a good place on the OUTSIDE of my soundboard would be an equally good place on the INside of my soundboard? Like, if I stuck it in a particular spot on the front of my guitar, and found the sound I wanted, could I stick it at that spot on the inside of the guitar? Thanks, guys!
Members Sweb Posted October 25, 2006 Members Posted October 25, 2006 1. In My Absolute Best Opinion?2. You would have to prevent rattling around between the pieces of wood otherwise you'll be getting a lot of chatter. Firmly sandwiched will prevent that.3 & 4. Placement would be the same outside as inside as you are picking up the same vibe. Hunt and peck outside. There will be vibes picked up on both side of the wood sandwich when placed inside of the guitar as opposed to outside, but the dominant signal area outside the guitar should prescribe the interior location. Keep in mind that a good bass response does not equate to balance, which you are shooting for. So, once you find a good external (balanced) location test the same spot inside. Yes, that's the bug-a-boo - string removal ad nauseum. As I said before, the biggest challenge is finding the best spot.
Members Chicken Monkey Posted October 25, 2006 Author Members Posted October 25, 2006 Thanks for the replies, Sweb. I'm afraid I'm not articulating my sandwich question, because I haven't got an answer to the question in my head yet. Here's attempt two-- I realize that I'll want my piezo firmly held within my wood sandwich. Does this mean that I will A) put a bead of epoxy around the rim of the bottom "slice" of wood, put my piezo in the center of this bead, and firm down the top slice on top, pinching the element b/t the slices, but not actually attaching it?This could be considered the "apple pie" approach, with the crust cinched around the filling.--or-- B) slather the epoxy onto my bottom slice, slap the element on there, and stick another gluey wooden disc on top of it all (AKA the "grilled cheeze" approach)? I really appreciate the help.
Members Sweb Posted October 25, 2006 Members Posted October 25, 2006 Yes, the grilled cheese where both slices and the piezo become one integral unit. Terry mentions using maple (solid) but the fact is you can use any flat piece of rigid material. A good hobby store will carry styrene sheets. Radio Shack carries flat copper clad project boards, though pricier than the styrene sheet. Plus, the styrene will cut with a sharp pair of scissors. Roughen up the glue sides of the styrene with 100 grit sandpaper to give it some tooth for the glue. Just remember to test the ducer BEFORE you grab the epoxy. Edit: Procedure Glue the piezo to one of two identical pieces of rigid material. When dry, form a mold around the perimeter of the piece you have glued the piezo to using a good quality masking tape. Layer two pieces of tape together to create a thicker piece of tape. With a sharp hobby knife slice vertically down one corner of the tape and lay the wires into the cut flush with the first piece of material the piezo is glued to. Patch the cut above the wires with more tape. Make a puddle of melted candlewax on a paper plate and place the outside surface of the piezo into the wax and let cool. Then, fill inside the mold with enough epoxy to just clear the height of the piezo. Now, carefully place the second piece of rigid material atop the epoxy inside the mold and monitor it to keep it parallel with the opposite piece. 5-minute epoxy is what you'll need for this. Allow 1/2 hour for full cure. Pull the assembly off the paper plate and carefully remove the tape, excess wax and epoxy. Being careful not to disturb or chafe the wires, lightly sand all sharp edges.
Members fats Posted October 25, 2006 Members Posted October 25, 2006 Originally posted by Sweb I read a few write-ups by people who've done this with good results. This sounds really interesting...do you have a link to more information?
Members Chicken Monkey Posted October 25, 2006 Author Members Posted October 25, 2006 Awesome. I'm getting a good picture of what I'm doing here. I'm thinking further down the signal chain now--what do I plug my newly piezoed guitar into? Do I need a preamp, a DI box, or can I plug straight into my recorder/amp/PA? If I need a preamp, can I stick that inside of my guitar, or would I have an external preamp? Thanks for everything. I'm really excited about this project.
Members Sweb Posted October 25, 2006 Members Posted October 25, 2006 Originally posted by Chicken Monkey Awesome. I'm getting a good picture of what I'm doing here. I'm thinking further down the signal chain now--what do I plug my newly piezoed guitar into? Do I need a preamp, a DI box, or can I plug straight into my recorder/amp/PA? If I need a preamp, can I stick that inside of my guitar, or would I have an external preamp?Thanks for everything. I'm really excited about this project. Straight in. That's the beauty of the piezo. It generates it's own electrical signal corresponding to the frequencies it samples. You can run it through a pre-amp if you want. The old Shadow P/U I have is nothing more than what is described here except it has a fancy encapsulation with a 1/8th inch phono receptacle jack molded into it. I plug it straight in my computer and monitor with earphone. I have also plugged it into a little 15 watt Crate practice amp with good play back. One thing about cords and jacks/receptacles. Make sure they are tight-fitting and if you do encapsulate a receptacle into the piezo make sure you seal it to prevent epoxy from entering it. The plug won't work if that happens. Easy way to seal it would be with heat-shrink tubing carefully pre-sealed around any possible entry points with small amounts of 5-minute epoxy while in a semi-cured paste (non-flowing) consistancy. I have no links to this subject. I just remember the concept and procedures suggested in various articles I've read in the past. It would be a good idea to do your own search to see if you can find that silly-putty stuff for temporary placements while looking for the guitar's sweet spot. Or, just use tape with a non-aggressive adhesive to prevent finish damage or splintering of the bare wood inside the guitar. Couple crossed strips of electrical tape should work well. Just don't leave it attached to the guitar any longer than you need to test with.
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 25, 2006 Members Posted October 25, 2006 Originally posted by Chicken Monkey Great! A few follow-up questions: 1. What does IMABO mean?In My Admitted Biased Opinion2. I've never heard of the wood sandwich thing. How thick is the wood? Do you glue the piezo to the wood, or do you glue the two pieces of wood together with the piezo loose in between?Thickness is 1/8" and the piezo disc is glued between the two discs of wood w/ epoxy, then clamped tightly for a few hours.3. If I want to put the piezo inside of the guitar, how do I test my placement? I mean, I've got to take the strings off to put it in there. Do I have to un- and re-string each time, or is there an easy way to test or move the piezo?4. Can I assume that a good place on the OUTSIDE of my soundboard would be an equally good place on the INside of my soundboard? Like, if I stuck it in a particular spot on the front of my guitar, and found the sound I wanted, could I stick it at that spot on the inside of the guitar?I just test it on the outside, because the difference in tone (if any) would be microscopic, I'm thinking.Thanks, guys! To answer your later "what next" question, I plug the "home-brew" P/U into a Baggs PADI, so that it's buffered, and I can EQ it prior to plugging it into my PA or amp. W/O buffering, the tone is pretty harsh.
Members Chicken Monkey Posted October 25, 2006 Author Members Posted October 25, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall To answer your later "what next" question, I plug the "home-brew" P/U into a Baggs PADI, so that it's buffered, and I can EQ it prior to plugging it into my PA or amp.W/O buffering, the tone is pretty harsh. Geez, this is remedial... What's a PADI?
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 25, 2006 Members Posted October 25, 2006 Originally posted by Chicken Monkey Geez, this is remedial... What's a PADI? Sorry...ParaAcoustic Direct Injection...a very good pre-amp/direct box/parametric EQ made by the Baggs company...pretty much the most-used DI out there... L. R. Baggs Para Acoustic D.I. Acoustic Guitar Direct Box/Preamp The Para Acoustic D.I. is a studio-quality direct box, featuring a five-band equalizer with tunable notch and midrange controls, adjustable gain and phase inversion. The proprietary Quasi-Passive EQ circuitry is totally transparent and allows control over voicing without sacrificing tone -- a big advance over conventional equalizers. In short, the Para D.I. It's engineered to bring out the best in any pickup.
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