The new Takamine preamp with tube

[crossways]

Has anyone played on this thing? I liked the video demo. Is it all it's cracked up to be?

 

I have a Takamine, are those preamps interchangable? In other words could I take mine out and replace it with the new tube preamp?

[Armchair Bronco]

I've seen the video, too, and the Cool Tube looks cool. But I still haven't been able to find a price (retail or street) for a Cool Tube upgrade kit. All my internet searches have failed so far.

 

You only see the Cool Tube in new guitars costing $1,200 to $1,400, so I'm guessing that the tube preamp itself if quite expensive.

 

But, my guess is that it has the same dimensions as the other Takamine preamps -- they'd be pretty dumb not to make it fit every other acoustic/electric guitar in their lineup.

[Terry Allan Hall]

A tube preamp INSIDE a guitar body?

 

I'm just a mite sceptical, folks!

 

This might explain why: http://stereos.about.com/cs/gtamplifiers/a/tube_amps.htm

[pipedwho]

I really like the sound of the CoolTube preamp, so much so that I've ordered another one for my other Takamine from Thoman in the UK (I couldn't find anyone else in the world that sold them either). I'm also getting a Tri-Ax pickup (a rebadged LR Baggs M1 active), so we'll soon see how well that really works. I wanted something that would respond to string slaps and percussive body taps, and the Tri-Ax is supposed to do that. Another useful thing about the CoolTube preamp is that it has a second input for another transducer.

 

All the Japanese Takamines from the last 10 years use the same housing and connections, so they are effectively interchangeable. BTW, the G-series and D-series use a different size preamp, so they aren't compatible.

 

In response to the Tube Amp in a guitar thing. These are 12AU7 tubes that are being run at 3V with minimal heater current. This is a starved plate design, and is completely different from your usual 300 volt, 200 degree plus hot tube designs. The four AA batteries last a bit over 24 hours, so the average power consumption for the entire preamp is just under 1/2 a watt. This would mean the preamp is running at most a few degrees warmer than ambient.

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally posted by pipedwho In response to the Tube Amp in a guitar thing. These are 12AU7 tubes that are being run at 3V with minimal heater current. This is a starved plate design , and is completely different from your usual 300 volt, 200 degree plus hot tube designs. The four AA batteries last a bit over 24 hours, so the average power consumption for the entire preamp is just under 1/2 a watt. This would mean the preamp is running at most a few degrees warmer than ambient.

 

 

Exactly my concern about this idea...in about 5 years, I'll be interested in your (at that point) opinion of this preamp.

 

This idea was first tried in the early 60's...the Electral-Muse company (affliated w/ Baldwin), who made instruments (classical guitars and double basses, mostly, but also a few harpsichords) w/ tube preamps went belly up from the costs of the warranty repairs...

 

OTOH, outboard tube-preamps are a very fine (if kinda expensive) idea, with great fidelity, due to the 2nd order harmonic potential.

[pipedwho]

 

Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Exactly my concern about this idea...in about 5 years, I'll be interested in your (at that point) opinion of this preamp. This idea was first tried in the early 60's...the Electral-Muse company (affliated w/ Baldwin), who made instruments (classical guitars and double basses, mostly, but also a few harpsichords) w/ tube preamps went belly up from the costs of the warranty repairs... OTOH, outboard tube-preamps are a very fine (if kinda expensive) idea, with great fidelity, due to the 2nd order harmonic potential.

 

 

I don't understand the problem, if it's the tube dying for some reason, then that's not really an issue. Since the preamp is being run so cold, the life expectancy of the tube is exponentially increased. And it's extremely easy to replace the tube in this preamp anyway.

 

If the problem is with generated heat (ie. 1/2 watt), I don't believe this is an issue. On the Japanese Taks, the preamp is right next to the sound hole, so the small excess heat in the preamp is very quickly vented to atmosphere.

 

Even if the soundhole were blocked, the heat path is convection, so the there aren't really any 'hot spots' at glue points or against the wood. Besides, to the touch, the preamp is barely warmer than the surroundings. My guitar gets much hotter on hot days than it ever would from the preamp heating it up. Assuming the worst case of extremely hot day plus preamp running plus sound hole cover, I don't expect that my part of the world would come close to other places for maximum temperature. And I'd hope the guitar was designed to cope with something slightly above room temperature.

 

BTW, do you know the exact nature of the problem that the Electral-Muse was having?

[keyshore]

I am curious what did you pay for the cool tube preamp upgrade at Thoman? I have recently purchased the Takamine EF400SC with CT4B preamp which i want to upgrade to cool tube.

Regards,

Keyshore

[pipedwho]

Originally posted by keyshore I am curious what did you pay for the cool tube preamp upgrade at Thoman? I have recently purchased the Takamine EF400SC with CT4B preamp which i want to upgrade to cool tube. Regards, Keyshore

 

You have a PM.

 

BTW IMHO, the CT4B preamp is pretty darn good until you start hitting the strings too hard and overdriving it. I've just finished some mods to one to get rid of this problem and it truly sounds sweet. The Cooltube has this same problem, but when you dial in more 'tube' the problem seems to go away.

 

I use my Cooltube with the Triax pickup (which is just a rebadged LR Baggs M1) and love this combination of palathetic + magnetic sound hole pickup.

[basschick22]

I will give you a report on my Takamine with the Cool Tube in a couple of weeks, when the guitar arrives. The guitars that I have played with the cool tubes were exceptional through the amplifier. The tube only gets 2-3 degrees warmer than ambient temp., so there shouldn't be an issue of overheating as the tube is barely 'on'....just enough to color the tone of the guitar. Also, I've read that the Takamine pre-amps are interchangable.

[pipedwho]

 

Originally posted by basschick22 Also, I've read that the Takamine pre-amps are interchangable.

 

 

This is true for all the Japanese models made around the mid '90s and onwards. The 'G' series and 'D' series guitars are not made in the Japanese factory and use other preamp housings that are not interchangeable (even with each other).

[Mikeo]

 

Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall A tube preamp INSIDE a guitar body? I'm just a mite sceptical, folks! This might explain why: http://stereos.about.com/cs/gtamplifiers/a/tube_amps.htm

 

 

sounds like a marketing snow job to me too

[Scodiddly]

 

Originally posted by Mikeo sounds like a marketing snow job to me too

 

 

My take on it also - just because there's a tube stuffed into it, doesn't mean it's better.

[pipedwho]

 

Originally posted by Mikeo sounds like a marketing snow job to me too

 

 

It may seem like a pointless exercise on the surface, but it does actually work very well. Yes, they could probably have used a DSP to do the same thing. Or even gone with Fishman's Aura technology instead.

 

But the Cooltube does work to 'warm up' the sound by bringing up the second (and to a smaller extent the 3rd, 4th and 5th harmonics). Who really cares that there is a tube in there vs. some other method to produce the same effect.

 

In the end, the result is pleasing and a lot of people are very happy with what it does. If Takamine could do the same thing with a longer battery life and more headroom (possibly even without a tube), it'd be even better.