12 String Guitar Maintainance

[keyshore]

Hi All,

At the onset a very merry Christmas to one and all as today is the 25th Dec for me as i write. I have purchased a new Takamine EF400SC guitar on 7th December.

 

My questions pertaining to the 12 strings guitars are,

 

1) After going through some 12 string threads, it seems the one thing is for sure is that at some point due to the incessant tension, the neck will have to be reset and bridge fixed/glued back.

 

2) In my part of the world, there are hardly any good repairers/luthiers, how long will my new takamine go before i have these typical 12 string problems?

 

3) I perform 6 nights a week for 6 months of the year, so my guitars are in use pretty extensively and they are cared for in the off season by using proper cases etc.

 

4) The weather here can be described as coastal, tropical with 60% average humidity and temp of 30 degree celcius.

 

This is my first 12 string and would appreciate your inputs.

 

Have a good holiday season.

 

Cheers,

 

Keyshore

[bruto]

Takamine has been building 12 strings for a long time, so you shouldn't have any serious issues. The necks and bridges are properly reinforced for the string tension.

The high humidity will be fine for your wood, but rough on your strings. You'll have to change them often, something that will take at least an hour and maybe two, so make sure you pop in a DVD before you start.

[Cripes]

Merry Christmas Keyshore.

I kept mine a half step down and capo'd if need be. Other than that I have no experience with your particular guitar.

30 Celcius (86 F) at 60% RH is a bit of a moist warming oven on any guitar though. That is very similar to the climate here in central Florida. Whatever you can do to keep the RH lower when not in use couldn't hurt. I have a small room I keep my guitars in with a room de-humidifier set for 45 RH and manage to maintain about 47-50.

[Freeman Keller]

Hi, Keyshore

It is probably safe to say that almost any acoustic guitar will suffer some changes over its life - most will need some structural work after 20 or 30 year (six and twelve strings). You Tak is a well build guitar and should be designed for light guage strings tuned to concert pitch. That said, many 12 string player like to tune down 1/2 or 1 full tone and, if they need to play with others or sing, capo it back up to concert.

Cripes, and many others tune to D# (1 half step down), I like mine at D and still use light gauge strings. That will dramatically reduce the tension on the top and bridge, and may delay the eventual need for work. But don't worry about it - it's a little bit like buying a new car and saying "eventually I will need to rebuild the motor" - but in the mean time, just enjoy it.

The RH is a bit on the high side, but again, shouldn't affect your new 12 any more than a six. You might try keeping one of those dehumidifying packets in the case with it when you aren't playing. This is what Jean Larrivee says about the range from 55 to 70 percent "Top and back will probably appear slightly more convex than normal. Playability may be affected."

[keyshore]

Thanks for your replies all 3 of you. the Takamine is strung with 0.10 guage string from company, as I prefer to keep guitars tuned to concert pitch , i will shift to 0.09 guage which will perhaps have less tension, as Freeman says i will stop worrying and enjoy the guitar.
Regards,
Keyshore

[yeoldboat]

Hi Keyshore,

I've owned a wonderful Garisson 12-string for several years now, and when I bought it I had all the same concerns. I definitely use light guage strings on it and don't "custom" the heavier strings for any increased bass response like I do my six-stringers.

For a time, I tuned my 12 down a half-step (a full step seemed to be going too far in the opposite direction to me) and capoed it up all the time. This was an OK approach, though I felt like I never completely warmed up to the guitar like I would if it didn't need this "modification" all the time.

Finally, I ditched the capo idea, tuned her up to concert pitch and I've never looked back. There is absolutely something to be said for enjoying such a fine instrument (as you have) in the here and now, and worrying about any possible issues if and when they come up. And incidentally, in four years of constant concert tension (and high scrutiny), I've noticed no problems.

Lastly, I would highly recommend that when you change your strings, you do so one or two at a time. This keeps the tension essentially constant throughout the re-stringing process, and does not allow for "wrenching" back and forth on the bridge, neck, neck joint, etc. Over time these actions would do harm, especially with a 12-string. Hope this helps.

[keyshore]

Hi matt,
thanks for the tips especially the string changing procedure, on my 6 stringers I simply remove all the strings in one go and clean the fret board before restringing, however when i want to restring the 12 string i will go as you suggest, one course at a time.
i would never tune 1 or even half note down as I play live and do not want to bother with a capo.

Regards,

Keyshore

[Freeman Keller]

Keyshore, a couple of other thoughts

1) don't give up on "down tuning" so easily. It really changes the sound of a twelve string - in my opinion it kills a lot of the jangle and makes it really roar. The great 12 string player, Heddie Ledbetter ("Leadbelly") tuned his old Stella to C and Leo Kottke tunes to C#. Leadbelly's songs were noted for their driving bass lines and Leo has a destinctive growl. btw - both sing with their tunings.

2) My feeling is that a modern 12 is braced to be tuned to concert with light gauge strings (note that manufactures vary as to what is a "light" set). However, if you look inside you will see pretty much the same bracing as a 6 (except for Taylors) - my Martin 12 has exactly the same bracing as an unscalloped D28. But a 6 with mediums at concert has about 190 pounds of tension on the top, a 12 with lights has more like 260. Whatever strings you decide to use, it would make sense to try to reduce that stress - either lighter strings or tuning down. If you look at the bottom of this chart you will get an idea of what different tunings and strings will do.

String Tension chart

3) Last thought is that I think a tuned down 12 is much easier to play - I was playing mine for an hour and a half last night and even down two my finger tips were pretty sore. They get even easier if you capo them up a couple of frets

It is not uncommon for shops to automatically tune down their display 12's - both because they are easier to take down and play and also for the sound.


btw - I change all the strings at a time - gives me a chance to wipe down the fretboard

Give it a try, if you don't like it all you have to do is crank it back up.

[t60 fan]

I agree with FK about the sound qualities tuned down.

And yeoldboat, I'll be interested to see how the Garrison bracing system holds up long-term. I am optimistic that it'll work well.

[yeoldboat]

t60 fan:

I'm also wondering about the fiberglass bracing in the long term. Also, mines got a western red cedar top, which I don't believe has quite the strength-to-weight ratio as spruce. But the thing really sings and plugged in it's a stunner.


Freeman & Keyshore:

I do remove all strings occasionally for neck cleaning on my six strings, perhaps every sixth month / re-string. With the 12, I'll do the same, though less often. I tell you, there's a lot to be said for washing your hands prior to playing, and wiping your strings & fretboard when finished. Elixr has built an industry on the fact that this is usually overlooked. And I also agree that lower tunings have some very alluring qualities to the sound. But like Keyshore, I often need to play up at concert pitch.

I've owned Takamines and they're great, well-built guitars.

Regards

[keyshore]

Thanks Freeman,
As usual you are knowledgeable and as you have suggested I will try tuning down to see the sound effect, but not very comfortable with this.

Meanwhile My Takamine EF400Sc does have a typical slightly harsh new spruce sound, but i have owned takamine before and i know the sound will turn warmer and mellower with age.

anyway thanks all of you for your insights into the 12 strings.

regards,

Keyshore

[Kap'n]

Originally posted by Freeman Keller 1) don't give up on "down tuning" so easily. It really changes the sound of a twelve string - in my opinion it kills a lot of the jangle and makes it really roar. The great 12 string player, Heddie Ledbetter ("Leadbelly") tuned his old Stella to C and Leo Kottke tunes to C#. Leadbelly's songs were noted for their driving bass lines and Leo has a destinctive growl. btw - both sing with their tunings.

 

 

True, but it varies from guitar to guitar as well. Some guitars are great with the low notes, and really bring out some nice qualities, others don't. Definately worth trying, though.

 

This won't apply to your Takamine, but as a general referemce - if it's not a strict acoustic guitar, but one with an undersaddle pickup, less expensive models suffer from a steep rolloff below 80Hz or so. Downtuning might sound nice acoustically, but when you plug it in, the sound disappears.

 

I had a Tak EF381(?) and it had the best low end response of all of the sub $1K 12-strings I tried. I found I got the best sound with the treble, bass and exciter at midpoint, and the mids down 3/4.

[keyshore]

Acoustically, my new takamine is a little treblely and harsh, which I attribute to the fact that it's brand new, i agree with you all that a new cedar top will sound better than a new spruce top.

When the guitar is plugged in, I can play around the controls on the mixer and get a nice warm sound.

After last night's performance someone from the audience walked up to me as he wanted to compliment me on the beautiful 12 string sound,so i must be doing it right.

BTW i only paid $975 for the EF400SC which to my mind is great value for money guitar. The Martin D12-28 would have cost at least $ 2300 and I would have to mess around with a pickup installation to use it on stage.

Yes acoustically I am sure Martin is much better but for my application I get the same sound on stage with a little adjustment.

Those of you who are looking for solid top/back 12 stringer please take a serious look at the Takamine EF400SC, also i think this model is on it's way out as it not featured on the takamine europe website, in the US I had to search around and found it at Music123 with some difficulty.

Regards,

Keyshore