Members IcyScythe Posted February 13, 2007 Members Posted February 13, 2007 Love this piece, unfortunately I don't have a classical (yet!), do you guys think I could learn this on electric (with a pick)? I looked at the tab, and it's almost entirely single notes. Here's the piece if you haven't heard it:
Members sdelsolray Posted February 13, 2007 Members Posted February 13, 2007 I'm sure you could do an arrangement of the Prelude to the 4th Lute Suite. However, there are many points in the piece that require playing two notes at the same time (usually a bass note and one from the melody). Those are important parts. Also, there are two voices, with an occasional implied third voice, in the piece. It's not simply single note runs for the left hand. Certain notes need to be sustained, and others need to be cut short. Usually, the right hand helps with the later task. Finally, using a flatpick would require some awesome technique, to say the least. For the right hand, using t-i-m-r (pima) with the classical method is vastly more efficient to play the work.
Members Pascal Posted February 13, 2007 Members Posted February 13, 2007 How about playing it on electric, but fingerpicking? Honestly, fingerpicking is the only way to go.... and playing a wider neck than your standard electric would probably help too.
Members Dave W. Posted February 13, 2007 Members Posted February 13, 2007 You can pick up a very usable classical for $100 - 125. Look on eBay for a used Yamaha classical like the G-231. They are all laminate (ply), but have a very good sound. Nylon string guitars have much less stress on them than their steel string counterparts, making them less susceptible to aging problems. The all laminate guitars are also not so fussy about being kept properly humidified, as compared to something with a solid top. All this makes them a good candidate for buying used.
Members IcyScythe Posted February 13, 2007 Author Members Posted February 13, 2007 Yeah... I guess I'll just try to do it with fingerpicking on my electric. My fingerpicking is quite crappy so I need to practice it anyways. I've got two technique questions though: 1) When I'm picking multiple notes on the same string do I use two fingers, 3, or all 4 (including pinky)?2) How do I do a good classical bar chord strum? (like in say this vid, another song I'm working on): http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ehxfblyr-UI Do I just flick my fingers across the strings or what? @Dave: I'm saving up for one now, I'd really like to get a really, really, really good one (in the $2000-3000 range), and just play on my electric till then.
Members sdelsolray Posted February 13, 2007 Members Posted February 13, 2007 Yeah... I guess I'll just try to do it with fingerpicking on my electric. My fingerpicking is quite crappy so I need to practice it anyways.I've got two technique questions though:1) When I'm picking multiple notes on the same string do I use two fingers, 3, or all 4 (including pinky)?2) How do I do a good classical bar chord strum? (like in say this vid, another song I'm working on): http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ehxfblyr-UI Do I just flick my fingers across the strings or what?@Dave: I'm saving up for one now, I'd really like to get a really, really, really good one (in the $2000-3000 range), and just play on my electric till then. In that piece, the single note runs are played with various alternations of i, m and/or r. In addition, many arrangements of the piece (by classical guitarists) use hammer-ons and pull-offs frequently, which requires less right hand activity and allows for right hand relaxation (a good thing). You might want to purchase one or two actual arrangments of the piece with the arranger's editing and fingerings. The one I like the the arragnement by Karl Scheit, but that one is in true lute tuning (EADF#BE), which makes the piece easier to play than in standard tuning (EADGBE). Quite frankly, the Back's 4th lute suite is not for the feignt of heart, and takes advanced classical chops to play, including the Prelude. There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pieces in the renaissance/baorque/classical/romantic/modern repertoire that are easier to learn, play and acquire.
Members brahmz118 Posted February 14, 2007 Members Posted February 14, 2007 My college roommate played this on violin. It was originally the Prelude from Partita No. 3 for Solo Violin, and later the whole opus was basically repackaged as Lute Suite No. 4. To my ears many of these Bach pieces sound as good on a plucked string instrument as they do on a bowed instrument, sometimes better. Anyway, here is the tab that I have looked at in the past (though I never got very far): http://www.classtab.org/jsb1006p.txt If the classical technique of alternating index, middle and /or ring finger is too difficult, you could probably handle many of the single-string runs with hammer-ons and pull-offs. Sometimes you have to play the same note a few times in a row, in which case you might as well try to alternate fingers. Bela Fleck plays this piece on banjo. Sonyclassical used to have the video of this piece on their website, but I can't find it now. It's on the Live at the Quick DVD, and also his Perpetual Motion CD. He alternates thumb and index for 99% of his single-string runs. For me that is easier than alternating index, middle, and / or ring. It's also a little more crisp if I use fingerpicks.
Members IcyScythe Posted February 15, 2007 Author Members Posted February 15, 2007 Okay I went to the classical guitar teacher at my school today and he said that I would HAVE to grow fingernails out to play classical style. Is this for sure? He also commented that I have "weak nails" ... if I'm going to put a lot of time in this I want it to be worth it, but I feel like I'm somehow naturally disadvantaged now
Members riffmeister Posted February 15, 2007 Members Posted February 15, 2007 I played CG for ~25 years w/o right hand nails, and for the last ~10 years with nails. Nails are definitely better, but not essential, based on my experience. That is a great prelude, btw........Bach at the top of his game. .
Members learn'r Posted February 15, 2007 Members Posted February 15, 2007 You can pick up a very usable classical for $100 - 125. Look on eBay for a used Yamaha classical like the G-231. They are all laminate (ply), but have a very good sound. Nylon string guitars have much less stress on them than their steel string counterparts, making them less susceptible to aging problems. The all laminate guitars are also not so fussy about being kept properly humidified, as compared to something with a solid top. All this makes them a good candidate for buying used. +1also will improve your abilities on finger picking your steel wound guitars. I just bought my first classical and am completely humbled and mesmerized by the different voices. And I wish I had a lam in the house right now. 3rd day A humble suggestion, get a nice but cheap classical, play the guitar for you - teacher will hear you when you choose - heck with him (you can actually use pieces of ping pong balls and glue killer nails on). A good website and there are a few ..... http://www.delcamp.net
Members IcyScythe Posted February 15, 2007 Author Members Posted February 15, 2007 Would using fake nails then work? I don't know anything about them... can you remove them easily and put them back on (I play rugby so having long nails would not be ideal, plus quite frankly... I don't like the idea, period) I played CG for ~25 years w/o right hand nails, and for the last ~10 years with nails. Nails are definitely better, but not essential, based on my experience.That is a great prelude, btw........Bach at the top of his game.. Could you give me some tips for right hand picking with and without nails? I really am not sure what I should be doing in this area.
Members riffmeister Posted February 15, 2007 Members Posted February 15, 2007 Could you give me some tips for right hand picking with and without nails? I really am not sure what I should be doing in this area. Practice! .
Members Stackabones Posted February 15, 2007 Members Posted February 15, 2007 Okay I went to the classical guitar teacher at my school today and he said that I would HAVE to grow fingernails out to play classical style. Is this for sure? He also commented that I have "weak nails" ... if I'm going to put a lot of time in this I want it to be worth it, but I feel like I'm somehow naturally disadvantaged now That's the general approach--growing out the nails. As you get deeper into it, you'll learn more about nail care. By the way, there are a few classical guitarists who don't grow their nails--just use the fleshy parts of the fingertips. Not at all a majority option, but I think there is a historical precendence. I don't think lutenists play with nails, for example. Having said that, talk with your teacher about it. There are really good reasons for having nails--even steel-string fingerstyle players grow them out or use fingerpicks.
Members learn'r Posted February 15, 2007 Members Posted February 15, 2007 Would using fake nails then work? I don't know anything about them... can you remove them easily and put them back on (I play rugby so having long nails would not be ideal, plus quite frankly... I don't like the idea, period)Could you give me some tips for right hand picking with and without nails? I really am not sure what I should be doing in this area. not so big on nails myself -but they don't need to be that long to become useful. still think you should check out http://www.delcamp.net/ truth - nothing like practice.
Members IcyScythe Posted February 15, 2007 Author Members Posted February 15, 2007 I went there learn'r but I'm not sure where to go... isn't it just a sheet music site? Can I get some feedback on the fake nails?
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