Building Acoustics

[smatel]

How much space is required to build guitars? Assume I can set up a space, serially, for different operations. How much room for tool and material storage is required? Are there any venting, temperature or humidity requirements?

 

I have read W. Cumpiano's book and several other texts but I believe there is often an important difference between theory and application.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Scott

[Queequeg]

ever consider going to one of these summer camps and building one there and bringing it home? It has some appeal. Having all the right tools there and instructors/ When you get all done you'll really know what its going to take to get set up @ home and you will avoid all the pitfalls of "discovering" what works and what doesn't work.

[MBWendel]

In terms of space, not much. My hobby shop bench is 3x8 and there is more space there than I need. In fact, I use less than half the bench or less, generally. Mostly, crap accumulates on top.

 

I'm unsure of what you mean by serially - I'm not the brightest guy around. Regardless, as a hobby shop, I do not have designated stations for different operations. I pick up a table saw from under the bench, use it, put it back. I'm filling out my collection with things I can't afford, I'm chasing tone, loving wood, and making a mess - my operation is not that of a Bruce Sexauer, or a Ervin Somogyi. I'm sure they have sanding stations and fretting stations, etc.

 

Most of my tools and materials will fit under my bench. I'm using a 14" Delta Bandsaw, a Ryobi planer (not sure of the size but it only planes on side at a time and I think I will soon replace it with a drum sander due to an unfortunate chipout incident that occured), large table saw and alot of hand power tools, scrapers, planers, chisels, etc. I have no problem with space.

 

Venting is a problem. I use KTM9, or other reasonable alternatives which are non, or less, toxic (less poison is good, and I am not chasing a perfect mirror finish although this material is fantastic). Also, cleanup is a hassle. Lots of dust, chips, etc. Get a very large contractors vacuum - you'll need it. Temperature and humidity are also important to control.

 

As you said, there is a difference between theory and application. I involved myself with local luthiers and spoke with national builders, read everything on the MIMF, 13th Fret, OLF, Cumpiano, Williams, Kinkead, etc. I spent at least a year building and rebuilding innumerable jigs, and it took a year and a half to finish my first OM ( I do have a few beers as I build...). But, I built everything from scratch. I dove right in and did it. This instrument had incredible errors, but ended up gtg. I learned a thousand things I do wrong and went on from there.

 

I say go for it. I started this hobby because I have played for 20 years and I "deserved" a James Goodall I plaed one time. Unfortunately, I do not have $4000 to get it. I also wanted a harpguitar. So I started building. It won't save you money, you'll never be a Fred Carlson, but you can build incredible instruments that sound as good as anything (almost), play as good as anything, and you could eventually sell your work if you keep up with it.

 

Sorry I have rambled on, but I remember asking the same question years ago. Good luck!

[MBWendel]

Also, I suggest a blanket or two for bending. I never felt comfortable with the pipe.

[knockwood]

 

In terms of space, not much. My hobby shop bench is 3x8 and there is more space there than I need. In fact, I use less than half the bench or less, generally. Mostly, crap accumulates on top. I'm unsure of what you mean by serially - I'm not the brightest guy around. Regardless, as a hobby shop, I do not have designated stations for different operations. I pick up a table saw from under the bench, use it, put it back. I'm filling out my collection with things I can't afford, I'm chasing tone, loving wood, and making a mess - my operation is not that of a Bruce Sexauer, or a Ervin Somogyi. I'm sure they have sanding stations and fretting stations, etc. Most of my tools and materials will fit under my bench. I'm using a 14" Delta Bandsaw, a Ryobi planer (not sure of the size but it only planes on side at a time and I think I will soon replace it with a drum sander due to an unfortunate chipout incident that occured), large table saw and alot of hand power tools, scrapers, planers, chisels, etc. I have no problem with space. Venting is a problem. I use KTM9, or other reasonable alternatives which are non, or less, toxic (less poison is good, and I am not chasing a perfect mirror finish although this material is fantastic). Also, cleanup is a hassle. Lots of dust, chips, etc. Get a very large contractors vacuum - you'll need it. Temperature and humidity are also important to control. As you said, there is a difference between theory and application. I involved myself with local luthiers and spoke with national builders, read everything on the MIMF, 13th Fret, OLF, Cumpiano, Williams, Kinkead, etc. I spent at least a year building and rebuilding innumerable jigs, and it took a year and a half to finish my first OM ( I do have a few beers as I build...). But, I built everything from scratch. I dove right in and did it. This instrument had incredible errors, but ended up gtg. I learned a thousand things I do wrong and went on from there. I say go for it. I started this hobby because I have played for 20 years and I "deserved" a James Goodall I plaed one time. Unfortunately, I do not have $4000 to get it. I also wanted a harpguitar. So I started building. It won't save you money, you'll never be a Fred Carlson, but you can build incredible instruments that sound as good as anything (almost), play as good as anything, and you could eventually sell your work if you keep up with it. Sorry I have rambled on, but I remember asking the same question years ago. Good luck!

 

 

Great post.

[smatel]

 

Sorry I have rambled on, but I remember asking the same question years ago. Good luck!

 

 

It's a good thorough responce. Thank you very much.

[Freeman Keller]

I can't add much to MB's comments, but here is a picture of the corner of the garage where I have built mine.

 

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/forum/threads.php?id=146_0_5_40_C

 

The things that take most space (and require ventilation) tend to be the big power tools and as you see, I don't have any . When I built the mando I bought a little table top band saw to do all the scroll work and it, my router, drill motors, and Dremel can all be put away under the workbench when I don't need them. A big band saw is nice (I have one available but not in my shop) as is a belt sander, drill press, table saw... By building kits I don't have to worry about thicknessing plates, shaping the neck, mitering fretboards, or bending sides - so all those expensive and big tools are eliminated.

 

I have also finished in the unventilated shop using rattle cans of nitro (bad idea) and waterbased lacquer (better). I made a "spray booth" out of a cardboard guitar shipping box, wear a good respirator and open the doors to let the fumes out. My garage is detached form the house - I certainly wouldn't do this in my basement. You'll get dust in the lacquer but it sands out. I'm satisfied with the finish.

 

Temperature and humidity are important, but I've got to admit I largely ignored them. I guess that one advantage of an unheated garage (I have 1500 watt space heater that I turn OFF when I spray nitro) is that the air doesn't get real dry - but frankly I didn't make a big effort to control humidity like I should.

 

My experiences are very much like MB's - I spent a lot of time reading and researching (and still do) before I ordered any wood. I spent many sleepless nights thinking about my last screw up or how I was going to do the next operation. I too, drank a fair numbers of beers (don't scallop braces or run a router). I bought the minimum number of tools, but I bought good ones when I did. I also knew when I started that I could be making a very expensive canoe paddle or better yet, could be having a marshmellow roast. I now play those guitars almost every night.

 

It is one of the most frustrating yet satisfying things I've ever done. And I too, apologize for rambling

[OrvilleGibson]

Some guys have managed to do it with nothing but a pocketknife and a kitchen table. If you don't use power tools, then all you really need is a space about 8'x8'. Most of my space is taken up with the table saw, bandsaw, jointer/planer, drill press, and dust collector, but all of those tools (except the drill press) are on mobile bases.

 

By the way, bending on the pipe isn't all that bad. I will confess that I've built a side-bender though. It really helps with the binding.

[knockwood]

When I move in June, I'm counting on a work space of as small as approx. 8x8. Ventilation is totally uncertain. Going to try to fit two tables and eventually an LMI side bender in there, and wing it on the rest. Big power tools are a challenge for a number of reasons in a NYC apartment... Cost, weight, noise... cost...

 

I cannot frickin' wait. I am chomping at the bit to start covering myself in sawdust.

 

For those of you who've used KTM9... Is it really that easy on a person in a low-ventilation/no-ventilation situation?