New to acoustics- HELP

[doc7string]

I have been playing guitar for 29 years now. This has been 99% solid body electric, and the only thing close to acoustic is my Ibanez JP 20 Jazz box. I am looking to buy a high end acoustic, and athough I can pick out a quality solid body with my eyes closed, I don't even know where to start with an acoustic. I want a guitar that will sound great live but even more so in the studio. I love the big acoustic sounds with an almost piano like tone. It is a must that there are 22 frets, a cut away, and very low action- I like to shred.

Please give me a place to start looking. Willing to spend up to $3000

[DonK]

Lordy, in that price range you've got a vast range of choices, all the way up to the lower end of the boutique group.

 

Taylor is probably the obvious choice among the production manufacturers because they have many cutaway designs, and Taylors were originally designed to attract electric players via slim necks and low action (though a good luthier/tech can get just about any decent acoustic guitar to play with pretty low action). Taylors are very well made; you'll have to be the judge of their sound (I like them - have owned five altogether, and still own two).

 

As far as other high quality production guitars, Martin and Larrivee also deserve a look, though Martin has fewer cutaway models and doesn't try to appeal as much to the electric player looking to make a seamless transfer to acoustic.

 

Breedlove makes very good guitars that have a less traditional look (I'm speaking of the original Breedlove, not the imported Atlas line - nothing wrong with the latter, but you can afford the "real" deal).

 

Santa Cruz, Collings and Bourgeois are worth a look if you want to go pretty high-end. There are a ton of others out there as well. Pick up a copy of Acoustic Guitar magazine and check out the back pages. For $3K, you can get something built exactly to your specs if you're not in hurry.

[Hudman]

Taylor and Breedlove are two brands that come to mind.

 

You will need to get out and play a few.

[Cripes]

Firewalled me at 22 frets.

[doc7string]

Thank you, that is a great place to start. I have been checking out Taylor on line and have noticed many cutaways. as far as the magazine, I have seen the adds, but every guitar looks good in the adds, making it hard for me to know where to go- I appreciate your help. I know my price range is high, but I like to do things right from the get go- seems to save me money in the long run.

Once again, I really appreciate the advice, because I am truly lacking knowledge when it comes to acoustics- I will let you know what I come up with in the next few weeks after doing some tryouts.

BTW is 22 frets not an option?

[brahmz118]

'Piano-like tone' is a phrase often used to describe carbon fiber guitars. From the RainSong website:

"Pure carbon tone is an utterly unique sound. It is clear, rich and resonant, similar to a piano, with a treble that rings with crystalline clarity and a bass that is warm without being muddy."

RainSong's biggest sounding guitars are probably their jumbo and dread, but neither comes in a cutaway. And they all stop at 21 frets. Another carbon fiber choice is Emerald, which makes cutaways with 21-1/2 frets. Emeralds also have the piano-like sound, in my opinion.

But if you're new to acoustics, you should try the wood guitars in your price range so you can hear how the carbon fiber sound differs. Some describe it as cold. Some simply describe it as 'non-woody' when explaining why they don't like it. Some feel they're overpriced. I happen to prefer my RainSong jumbo to some guitars that cost over twice as much. I also think it's great for recording because of the lack of muddiness. But it's not for everyone.

[guitarist21]

You could spend a little less and get a guitar like an Epi Masterbilt (which are fantastic) and spend the rest on stuff like an amp, a preamp, K&K Pure Western Mini electronics, etc.

But actually, rereading your thread, you sound like a Taylor kind of guy. DonK is exactly right- they were originally marketed to people looking for an acoustic that played like an electric. So definitely check them out, they make lots of great guitars, even well under your price range.

Ellen

[kwakatak]

Taylor T5

[simplygoodmusic]

22 frets? That is indeed a rare thing.

I remember seeing one 24 fret acoustic, which was an avalon, but other then that its hard to tell.

[missedmyexit]

22 Frets is definately going to narrow down your search. I can't think of any off the top of my head that has 22 frets. If you could part with two frets though the Martin Aura Models are worth a look at. Very good both live and in the studio. The pickup system is simply amazing.

[Dave W.]

BTW is 22 frets not an option?

Don't know, never counted all of em'

Acoustic and shredding don't go together, in my opinion. Closest one I know of is Monte Montgomery, and while I think he is an amazingly talented player, I get tired of listening to him by the second song. But thats just me, so go get a good one while you have the $$, and when you get old and farty like me, at least you will have a good guitar.

[doc7string]

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. I look forward to trying out all of these great instruments. There is a local dealer here in Pittsburgh (Go Pens) that sells alot of the higher ends Larivee, Breedlove, Collings, etc. I can't wait to try them. I am very fond of how the Breedloves look. I am most interested in the Comments about transition from electric to acoustic (Taylor)- I expect these will be on my high list as well- I plan to check things out over the next two weeks and will let you know how it goes- Thanks for all the info.

[Dave W.]

There is a local dealer here in Pittsburgh (Go Pens) that sells alot of the higher ends Larivee, Breedlove, Collings, etc.Thanks for all the info.

Be careful if you buy a Collings, I believe shredding on them is illegal in most states. You could get in serious trouble.

Enjoy the shopping, with that budget you are going to have a shot at some really primo guitars.

[kwakatak]

Hey! Another "yinzer!"

 

How 'bout dem dere Penz?!? I've also been playing for nearly 30 years but am a transplant from eastern PA. During that time I've played a mix of acoustic and electric and have come to the opinion that they are virtually two different instruments that just share the same basic interface (6 strings and frets). As you look around you may or may not find this to be applicable.

 

Are you talking about Acoustic Music Works in Squirrel Hill? Ask them to help you out. You may or may not find what you are looking for though as acoustics respond completely differently (in tone and playability) than solid body electrics!

 

I wasn't joking about the T5 either. If you're ever in Mount Lebanon, check one out at Empire Music. In their back room they have high-end and Atlas series Breedloves, Martins from the X series all the way to a D-41, and several Taylor GS and GC (grand concert) models.

 

BTW - if you're looking for something that has good unplugged tone and a neck that is comfortable enough for your electric sensibilities I'd look hard at one of the Taylor GS or the Larrivee LV-03R or LV-09. The latter two have a cutaway but only have 20 frets - which is all you really need IMO. As Chet Atkins used to say, the money is in the first 5 frets.

[FingerBone Bill]

Doc - your ideal guitar sounds like an electric

[doc7string]

Hey! Another "yinzer!" How 'bout dem dere Penz?!? I've also been playing for nearly 30 years but am a transplant from eastern PA. During that time I've played a mix of acoustic and electric and have come to the opinion that they are virtually two different instruments that just share the same basic interface (6 strings and frets). As you look around you may or may not find this to be applicable. Are you talking about Acoustic Music Works in Squirrel Hill? Ask them to help you out. You may or may not find what you are looking for though as acoustics respond completely differently (in tone and playability) than solid body electrics! I wasn't joking about the T5 either. If you're ever in Mount Lebanon, check one out at Empire Music. In their back room they have high-end and Atlas series Breedloves, Martins from the X series all the way to a D-41, and several Taylor GS and GC (grand concert) models. BTW - if you're looking for something that has good unplugged tone and a neck that is comfortable enough for your electric sensibilities I'd look hard at one of the Taylor GS or the Larrivee LV-03R or LV-09. The latter two have a cutaway but only have 20 frets - which is all you really need IMO. As Chet Atkins used to say, the money is in the first 5 frets.

 

 

 

 

Yes, it is acoustic music works. Nice to see another burgh thing here at HC. I will take your recs. very seriously when checking out the acoustic offerings. I am slowly coming to realize that the 22nd fret may be a pipe dream only accessible via a whole step bend from 20- good enough. BTW, I live in Murrysville, but work at multiple hospitals closer to your neck of the woods, including St. Clair. Thanks again for the advice, and I will let you know what I think after playing as many as I can get my hands on.

[doc7string]

Doc - your ideal guitar sounds like an electric

No doubt you are correct, but I am craving that great acoustic sound for some of the music that I am writing these days. BTW I do more than shred, I just want to be able to play fast when I want to (even on acoustic). I have heard of this Paco guy that apparently does some speedy stuff on acoustic, has anyone here heard of him? LOL
Really, no offense meant, just having some fun.

[doc7string]

Be careful if you buy a Collings, I believe shredding on them is illegal in most states. You could get in serious trouble. Enjoy the shopping, with that budget you are going to have a shot at some really primo guitars.

If I buy a Collings, I promise I will only play it at home with the blinds drawn- Just don't tell anyone my secret;)

[FingerBone Bill]

No doubt you are correct, but I am craving that great acoustic sound for some of the music that I am writing these days. BTW I do more than shred, I just want to be able to play fast when I want to (even on acoustic). I have heard of this Paco guy that apparently does some speedy stuff on acoustic, has anyone here heard of him? LOL Really, no offense meant, just having some fun.

Nothing even close to offense mate

But you do hear this a lot from electric players wanting to come to acoustics - they love the feel of their electrics and want the same thing from an acoustic (I can remember thinking the same when I made the leap myself many years ago).

The trouble is that the acoustic guitar requires thicker strings and a higher action to sound good - doesn't matter how you try and get around it - the physics won't change.

I can tell you from experience that much of what you play on an electric won't sound so good on an acoustic. In time you'll grow to appreciate the physical feel of an acoustic guitar. For instance - just saying "if" I could make my acoustics feel like an electric - I wouldn't. If I play acoustic songs on my electric it just doesn't "feel" right - it's too sloppy.

It takes a little getting used to but you do make the transition.

[doc7string]

Nothing even close to offense mate But you do hear this a lot from electric players wanting to come to acoustics - they love the feel of their electrics and want the same thing from an acoustic (I can remember thinking the same when I made the leap myself many years ago). The trouble is that the acoustic guitar requires thicker strings and a higher action to sound good - doesn't matter how you try and get around it - the physics won't change. I can tell you from experience that much of what you play on an electric won't sound so good on an acoustic. In time you'll grow to appreciate the physical feel of an acoustic guitar. For instance - just saying " if " I could make my acoustics feel like an electric - I wouldn't. If I play acoustic songs on my electric it just doesn't "feel" right - it's too sloppy. It takes a little getting used to but you do make the transition.

The thing is though, I can rip on my Ibanez Joe Pass model (JP20) with strings 13-52 no problem (just don't try to bend too much). Won't I get a similar feel on a standard acoustic? None the less I am looking for the sound with the best feel (for me) that I can get. I will do my best to deal with the differences in acoustic vs. electric.

[T0MCAT]

Check out some nice Ovations, I think you might like them. It's usually a love hate thing with O's though. Anyway, they have somewhat of that electric feel.

[Dave W.]

Whatever your current motivation, get yourself a nice acoustic while you have the $$ and urge. Take a good look at the OM/000 sizes, much more manageable than a dread I think, for the type of music you play. I also think that once you spend some serious time with an acoustic, unplugged, you will hear and feel tones that may change the way you approach the acoustic. There are beautiful tones and over tones that need time to ring out to be heard. If you slow down, you can add more depth and feeling. If you can, try to watch the interview with Muriel Anderson on APM magazine (online). She talks about studying classical style playing, and how it showed her how much depth and feeling she could add to the music.

[doc7string]

Hey guys, I haven't played them all yet, but have found one I am particularly fond of. First let me say that you were all right, the Taylors are the easiest transition form electric, but a close second , and the best tone I have heard so far to my ears, the Martin OMC Aura. I enjoyed playing it so much that I closed the store, and never tried it out through an amp. I played a Larivee and a breedlove as well.They both sounded great, but played a little too stiff for me. The Taylor played fantastic (still not my strat, but I wasn't expecting that) but was a little thin acoustically for my tastes. So, the search is on, and the King of the mountain that all others must try to unthrone is the Martin. Thanks again for all of your thoughts, and I will keep you posted from now until purchase (which at this price range may take a little while to commit)>

[Cripes]

Coming "into" the realm of the acoustic with that kind of buying power be real sure what you want, unless you can easily repeat the exercise. Martin makes a great guitar. I've had many of them as well as a few of the others you've mentioned. I'm currently enjoying a Breedlove Custom Shop concert cutaway with the Baggs dual source. I'm not real sure what you mean by stiff - playability I assume - but that's more a string condition than the guitar itself. Mine is a cedar over EIR and is sweet sounding. From the description you give of your style, you'll probably want spruce over mahogany. That would be my prescription for the style, anyway.

In any case, the strings play a very big role in the decision making process - especially in your price range - and I'd be very sure they were new. If not, I'd have the store change them (on my bill if need be). 11's would be my starting point.

[doc7string]

Coming "into" the realm of the acoustic with that kind of buying power be real sure what you want, unless you can easily repeat the exercise. Martin makes a great guitar. I've had many of them as well as a few of the others you've mentioned. I'm currently enjoying a Breedlove Custom Shop concert cutaway with the Baggs dual source. I'm not real sure what you mean by stiff - playability I assume - but that's more a string condition than the guitar itself. Mine is a cedar over EIR and is sweet sounding. From the description you give of your style, you'll probably want spruce over mahogany. That would be my prescription for the style, anyway. In any case, the strings play a very big role in the decision making process - especially in your price range - and I'd be very sure they were new. If not, I'd have the store change them (on my bill if need be). 11's would be my starting point.

 

 

Good point. I will look into that prior to making a final choice. I do have a ton of others to try out yet as well. Re stiff, the action wa significantly higher on those guitars. I am sure that strings likely played a role as well. I guess its just me trying to find the right balance of sound and feel and wanting it to sound like this (acoustic) and play like that (my strat)- This is a fun process.