Avalon Arrival (sorry Knockwood)

[rjoxyz]

Well, my Avalon A101 Gold Series arrived today via DHL. Though Knock's unfortunate experience may have been extreme, this eBay seller is full of arrogance and lacking in customer service. After 10 days with no communication, I sent a message through eBay asking for an update of the transaction status. I got a terse response that I would receive tracking info. when it shipped. It shipped about an hour after that email. I suppose it would have shipped sooner had I inquired sooner. There was no reason for the 2 week set up BS on the eBay listing.

 

Anyway, back to the guitar. It is cedar over hog. The body is similar in color to Larrivee mahogany. The whole guitar has a sort of honey/bronze appearance. Very pretty, with wood bindings, an abolone rosette and the glossiest nitro finish I have seen. Very clean braces, etc. Overall, nice attention to detail.

 

1 3/4" nut with a neck feeling similar to my L-03, maybe a touch deeper. The body is more a mini jumbo than anything else. Buttery smooth gold Grovers with ebony buttons. Ebony fretboard and rosewood bridge. TUSQ nut and saddle with rosewood or boxwood pins. It came in a brown cordura and vinyl covered hard case with HUNTER ORANGE lining. I don't think it is a factory case.

 

I have not played it more than a 1/2 hour so far after putting a fresh set of D'addario EJ19 PB Bluegrass gauge strings on it. I have little experience with cedar tops. Strummed with a flatbick, it is heavy on mids with a pronounced shimmery treble. Bass is not terribly strong with a pick--quite a bit weaker than the Larrivee and naturally, my HD-28. I was not blown away by the tone strummed.

 

The guitar comes into its own fingerpicked. Single note bass picking (flesh and nails) is very strong. Balanced across all strings and clear as a bell. A beautiful and fairly complex sound with fingers. I will need to play a lot more after the strings settle in to have a reasonable basis for an opinion. I like it so far, but my socks are still on my feet.

 

Oddly, the label says it is "Made in Avalon", but I am pretty sure it is a Czech model. Not sure it matters much. All in all, an obvious bargain for what I paid. Whether it competes for my time with a couple of my favorites, remains to be seen.

[Cripes]

Cool. The sock-analogy works for me. Come back after you break things in.

 

Congratulations. I still want to try one on myself.

[knockwood]

Well, my Avalon A101 Gold Series arrived today via DHL. Though Knock's unfortunate experience may have been extreme, this eBay seller is full of arrogance and lacking in customer service. After 10 days with no communication, I sent a message through eBay asking for an update of the transaction status. I got a terse response that I would receive tracking info. when it shipped. It shipped about an hour after that email. I suppose it would have shipped sooner had I inquired sooner. There was no reason for the 2 week set up BS on the eBay listing. Anyway, back to the guitar. It is cedar over hog. The body is similar in color to Larrivee mahogany. The whole guitar has a sort of honey/bronze appearance. Very pretty, with wood bindings, an abolone rosette and the glossiest nitro finish I have seen. Very clean braces, etc. Overall, nice attention to detail. 1 3/4" nut with a neck feeling similar to my L-03, maybe a touch deeper. The body is more a mini jumbo than anything else. Buttery smooth gold Grovers with ebony buttons. Ebony fretboard and rosewood bridge. TUSQ nut and saddle with rosewood or boxwood pins. It came in a brown cordura and vinyl covered hard case with HUNTER ORANGE lining. I don't think it is a factory case. I have not played it more than a 1/2 hour so far after putting a fresh set of D'addario EJ19 PB Bluegrass gauge strings on it. I have little experience with cedar tops. Strummed with a flatbick, it is heavy on mids with a pronounced shimmery treble. Bass is not terribly strong with a pick--quite a bit weaker than the Larrivee and naturally, my HD-28. I was not blown away by the tone strummed. The guitar comes into its own fingerpicked. Single note bass picking (flesh and nails) is very strong. Balanced across all strings and clear as a bell. A beautiful and fairly complex sound with fingers. I will need to play a lot more after the strings settle in to have a reasonable basis for an opinion. I like it so far, but my socks are still on my feet. Oddly, the label says it is "Made in Avalon", but I am pretty sure it is a Czech model. Not sure it matters much. All in all, an obvious bargain for what I paid. Whether it competes for my time with a couple of my favorites, remains to be seen.

 

Very glad to hear it arrived in one piece! I read your first paragraph and thought, "Oh no..." My heart frickin' dropped. But it got there! Ultimately I hope the tone will grow on you. As you said, an obvious bargain - so worst-case, you could probably sell it for a profit.

 

Re. where it was made, there have been a number of Gold series guitars made in Ireland (Mandolin Brothers still has the Gold series guitars they stock made in Ireland). I would trust the label. If you want to be sure, visit the Avalon forum (accessible through the Avalon website). Small but apparently growing forum, and one of Avalon's luthiers moderates and seems to answer questions very, very quickly.

[rjoxyz]

Knock---Thanks for the concern. I see you salved your wounds with a D-60. Good for you, you fickle man, you!

 

I may be a little underwhelmed with this Avalon, but I think my expectations were influenced by all the "ethereal" swooning over the Legacy series. I guess I was anticipating having some sort of religious experience with the first chord. I will give it plenty of time to win me over. I honestly think it has something to do with that cedar top and my unfamiliarity with the tone it produces. The guitar is not really disappointing. If I had paid $3000, I might wonder if I had done the right thing. Of course, I would not buy such a guitar sight unseen on eBay.

 

Looking forward to hearing about that Canadian version of an American dreadnought, eh?

[DonK]

Congrats, sounds like a cool guitar. My Tak has a cedar top - really nice for fingerstyle. I've heard they're delicate though (and mine is a satin finish w/ no pickguard!). I was reading the other day about a luthier named Mark Whitebook who built a bunch of cedar-top dreads, but later switched to spruce because cedar took a beating from guys taking their guitars on the road (he sold mostly to pro's; gave up being a luthier when he developed severe allergies to most of the woods used in building guitars). I really like the sound of cedar, though. I had a Seagull with a cedar top, too.

 

The worship pastor at my church has an Avalon, which I've played - really nice sounding guitar. I think his has a cedar top.

 

What's this about Knock and a D-60? As in Larry? Did I miss something?

[rjoxyz]

 

Congrats, sounds like a cool guitar. My Tak has a cedar top - really nice for fingerstyle. I've heard they're delicate though (and mine is a satin finish w/ no pickguard!). I was reading the other day about a luthier named Mark Whitebook who built a bunch of cedar-top dreads, but later switched to spruce because cedar took a beating from guys taking their guitars on the road (he sold mostly to pro's; gave up being a luthier when he developed severe allergies to most of the woods used in building guitars). I really like the sound of cedar, though. I had a Seagull with a cedar top, too. The worship pastor at my church has an Avalon, which I've played - really nice sounding guitar. I think his has a cedar top. What's this about Knock and a D-60? As in Larry? Did I miss something?

 

 

 

Yep. Says he ordered one Wed. in this thread:

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15841

[Greymuzzle]

rjoxyz - all od the gold series which are made in Ireland are clearly marked 'made in ireland' on the label the rest are, I understand, Czech.

 

I would place a large ? over the EJ19 Bluegrass strings - they are a long way from the standard factory set up and may not be the best mate for the guitar and may even be deprssing performance

 

If you e-mail JB on the Guitar tech section of the Avalon website you'll get a pretty immediate come back if you want to check...

[rjoxyz]

Greymuzzle--I was not crazy about the tone with the EJ19s on the Avalon(though my HD-28 loves them). What would you recommend?

 

I have some Martin Fingerstyle 12-54s, DR Sunbeams in 12-54 and 13-56, Dean Markley Alchemy PB's in 12-54 and 13-56, John Pearse PB's in 12-53 and 13-56 and some new Elixer PB Nanos in 12-53 and 13-56 (they sound great on my maple jumbo).

 

Any idea as to which would be a good alternative with the cedar top to try out next?

 

BTW, the action seems fine with the BG gauge. About 6/64ths at the 12th fret. I initially thought to go up in gauge to enhance the weak bass.

[Pablo]

Congratulations on your new guitar! I have no personal experience with Avalons (unfortunately), but I am nonetheless envious.

[Dave W.]

 

Well, my Avalon A101 Gold Series arrived today via DHL. Though Knock's unfortunate experience may have been extreme, this eBay seller is full of arrogance and lacking in customer service. After 10 days with no communication, I sent a message through eBay asking for an update of the transaction status. I got a terse response that I would receive tracking info. when it shipped. It shipped about an hour after that email. I suppose it would have shipped sooner had I inquired sooner. There was no reason for the 2 week set up BS on the eBay listing.

 

 

Andy,

 

While it is not fair to retaliate for the beating Knock took, do you think this is an occasion for a neutral feedback? Not suggesting it, just curious as to your feelings as to how you were treated by this seller. When you drop that kind of money and pay promptly, the thing should ship right away.

[rjoxyz]

 

Andy, While it is not fair to retaliate for the beating Knock took, do you think this is an occasion for a neutral feedback? Not suggesting it, just curious as to your feelings as to how you were treated by this seller. When you drop that kind of money and pay promptly, the thing should ship right away.

 

 

They did have a clear disclaimer on the listing that it could take 1-2 weeks for processing and shipment due to "high demand and sales volume" or somesuch nonsense.

 

In my line of work, I fight other people's battles daily and rarely do I get upset when I do not receive the kind of treatment most people expect. I have developed a thick skin and a bit of jadedness from what I experience vicariously on a regular basis. In this case, I will leave them NO feedback. The one time I left less than positive feedback, the seller pissed all over my leg on my own feedback. I see little point to it in this case. It would be entirely different if I were in Knock's shoes.

 

Now that I think of it, it was a seller telling me they "lost the item in their warehouse" when I won it for the opening bid (and paid immediately), that resulted in the negative feedback war I got into. I pick my battles pretty selectively. Life is short.

[Dave W.]

They did have a clear disclaimer on the listing that it could take 1-2 weeks for processing and shipment due to "high demand and sales volume" or somesuch nonsense. In my line of work, I fight other people's battles daily and rarely do I get upset when I do not receive the kind of treatment most people expect. I have developed a thick skin and a bit of jadedness from what I experience vicariously on a regular basis. In this case, I will leave them NO feedback. The one time I left less than positive feedback, the seller pissed all over my leg on my own feedback. I see little point to it in this case. It would be entirely different if I were in Knock's shoes. Now that I think of it, it was a seller telling me they "lost the item in their warehouse" when I won it for the opening bid (and paid immediately), that resulted in the negative feedback war I got into. I pick my battles pretty selectively. Life is short.

 

Can't argue with a word you said. My level of expectations of service from others is pretty low also, so I am rarely disappointed.

I bought a $600 water system for one of my printing presses on ebay. Paid instantly and had a very cordial relationship with the buyer. The day it showed up intact and as advertised I left him positive feedback, only to get none in return. I politely emailed a few times over three months to no avail. Pissed me off royal. Last time I leave feedback as a buyer before the seller does so first. Lesson learned, move on, bigger stuff in life to get twisted about. Like you said, Knock's situation is different, but probably all he will get in return is some negative feedback for himself, and that just ain't right. Ebay has some gaping holes in it, and they could give a {censored}, business is booming.

[ZOVANOU]

The a 100 (sitka/ mahogany ) arrived based upon the hang tag the guitar was built in 2005 It appears to be nos , again more like a mini jumbo than a om . Construction details , quality are good-very good. Needed to be humidified .The strings were not even loosened up and the truss rod needed severe adjustment.The seller stated will be setup , b.s. . I would not by from the arrogant seller again. My socks did not get get knocked off . That being said I think when the guitar settles in and i find the right strings, maybe bone the bridge pins it will be a winner.Not the holy grail but fine for the price.The neck profile is medium chunky and i love 1 3/4 nut width . worth the price but i would not pay more than i did for the guitar.mine is czech.

[knockwood]

 

In my line of work, I fight other people's battles daily and rarely do I get upset when I do not receive the kind of treatment most people expect. I have developed a thick skin and a bit of jadedness from what I experience vicariously on a regular basis. In this case, I will leave them NO feedback. The one time I left less than positive feedback, the seller pissed all over my leg on my own feedback. I see little point to it in this case. It would be entirely different if I were in Knock's shoes. Now that I think of it, it was a seller telling me they "lost the item in their warehouse" when I won it for the opening bid (and paid immediately), that resulted in the negative feedback war I got into. I pick my battles pretty selectively. Life is short.

 

 

Smart. Having had my first experience with leaving - and receiving - negative feedback on this transaction, it seems utterly useless as a practical measure. Negative feedback seems to me to be useful solely for spite... In this particular case, it's going to hurt the seller more than it could possibly hurt me (I've sold only one item on eBay, never plan to sell again, and generally don't buy anything but books...). Still, it irks me to have a reminder of this obnoxious transaction staring me in the face every time I log into my account. It's a shame there isn't some means of warning potential buyers of the potential pitfalls of dealing with a particular seller without mucking up your own account history in this way - makes doing the honest thing very prohibitive. And I half think leaving negative feedback for a buyer shouldn't even be an option if the item is paid for within the specified time - what other obligation does a buyer have??

 

As much as it annoys me to think of doing so, I may extend an offer to this guy to mutually erase the negative feedback (can only be done this way, I believe, and there's still a record of something iffy having been there and removed). Gave me a sense of spiteful satisfaction for a couple of days, but at this point, I'd prefer to leave it behind.

 

I think you're right to either leave this guy no feedback or even positive feedback - as annoying a character as he seems to be, he seems to have lived up to his side of your agreement. Barely, perhaps. And in the most irritating way. But still...

[Dave W.]

I suppose the best we as forum members can do, is to protect ourselves by posting ebay experiences along with the vendors names. The posts need to be honest, without a lot of ranting, and try to show both sides. If that is done, then I think it is fair to post the sellers ebay name. It won't do much good for the sellers who only sell a few guitars, but there are a number of good size dealers on ebay, and their reputation should be held up to scrutiny just like online dealers such Elderly, Maury's, Buffalo Brothers etc.

[rjoxyz]

 

The a 100 (sitka/ mahogany ) arrived based upon the hang tag the guitar was built in 2005 It appears to be nos , again more like a mini jumbo than a om . Construction details , quality are good-very good. Needed to be humidified .The strings were not even loosened up and the truss rod needed severe adjustment.The seller stated will be setup , b.s. . I would not by from the arrogant seller again. My socks did not get get knocked off . That being said I think when the guitar settles in and i find the right strings, maybe bone the bridge pins it will be a winner.Not the holy grail but fine for the price.The neck profile is medium chunky and i love 1 3/4 nut width . worth the price but i would not pay more than i did for the guitar.mine is czech.

 

 

Mine was actually set up very nicely. Definitely not the holy grail at this point, but a great deal for the price.

 

I did change strings again, last night. This time I put on a set of Newtone Masterclass Double Wound PB's on in 12-54, that I forgot I had. EXCELLENT tone on this guitar. The downside is they are hard to find and run about $20 a set for single sets.

 

I am resigned to the fact that this thing may never produce a strong bass response when strummed. The mids and trebles are absolutely beautiful, but so far, overpower the bass. As stated before, its strong suit is fingerstyle.

[rjoxyz]

Knock, I am an adherent to the theory that "Life sucks--wear a helmet".

[Greymuzzle]

rjoxyz

 

Don't despair about the bass at this point in time, I certainly know that with the Irish ones that the bass devlops markedly as they open up,but without damaging the purity of the mids and trebles.

 

On the string front the house standard here is D'Addario EJ16 s on a custom Burr Maple & Alaskan Cedar AvalonL32cx (partly 'cos that is what gets used on the wee S10c also)

 

My bro, on the other hand, uses D'A EJ 17s on the Rosewood/Spruce Avalon L32c that he uses as his main gigging instrument for the little extra volume abd bottom.

 

I know that ther are prophylatic provided strings that last longer but I don't like 'em much and here they cost the equivalent of between $30-34 a: set

 

If you are ever going to use it to woo damsels get a set of Silk & Steel

[knockwood]

Knock, I am an adherent to the theory that "Life sucks--wear a helmet".

 

Agreed. Just don't buy the helmet on eBay...

[thetree4U]

I did change strings again, last night. This time I put on a set of Newtone Masterclass Double Wound PB's on in 12-54, that I forgot I had. EXCELLENT tone on this guitar. The downside is they are hard to find and run about $20 a set for single sets. I am resigned to the fact that this thing may never produce a strong bass response when strummed. The mids and trebles are absolutely beautiful, but so far, overpower the bass. As stated before, its strong suit is fingerstyle.

 

Hey rjoxyz,

 

I'm glad to hear that you got an Avalon and that it is sounding better. About the bass response, I emailed and forumed JB (the head Avalon luthier) and here was his response. Since I haven't played an Avalon guitar once it has "opened up" I have to believe that this is coming with mine...

 

"Don't worry, your L32C bass response will increase with age as the soundboard matures and "opens out".

 

Sitka Spruce can take 6 - 24 months to really open up, spread it wings and sing to it's full tonal range. My L320 is 2 years old now and I can really hear the difference now that the soundboard has loosened up. The bass is fuller, trebles are smoother ... just a delight to play"

 

Not sure how this applies to cedar, but I'm a spruce guy anyway.

 

I am also intrigued by how different these guitars sound with different strings... and a little disappointed that the big-bucks strings sound better.

[rjoxyz]

My understanding is that Cedar will open up faster than Sitka. The more I play this Avalon, the less I feel the bass is "weak". Single note bass lines are plenty resonant. However, when strummed, the mids and trebles simply wash out the bass. So, I guess the point is how mid and treble heavy it is.

 

The thing I like most is that it has a very unique voice, sounding nothing like my other solid wood guitars (Larrivee L-03, Martin HD-28 and 000-15S and Parkwood Jumbo), all of which feature different top/body combinations. The tone is really very pleasing, at least with the current strings. Don't get me wrong, I like it more every day.

 

I think I was expecting more than was reasonable. Kinda like having a blind date, expecting Salma Hayek and having Heather Locklear show up. Who would complain?

[dmn23]

 

I think I was expecting more than was reasonable.

 

You might have been unprepared for how different these guitars sound compared to, say, a Martin or a Gibson.

[rjoxyz]

I am aware of the debate over guitars aging or opening up over time. I am a believer that it happens. I had an A-frame braced (fairly light bracing) Martin D-15 Custom that became more resonant in about 6 months of regular play. Played the same kind of strings the whole time. No doubt in my mind, the guitar changed a bit.

 

On the other hand, my HD-28 has not changed that I can tell in about a year. Of course, during that time, I have been on a GAS bender and all my guitars have to compete for playing time at one point or another. Assuming that there is such a phenomenon, I have read that a Cedar top will age more rapidly than Spruce. This my first Cedar top, so I have no idea.

 

I agree that sometimes one guitar's tone does not grab me, yet another's will. Don't know if it is the bracing (which I understand is unusual) or what, but the Avalon has a warmer, sweeter tone than my other guitars--definitely very different. Not describable in typical "bright/dark" terms.

[thetree4U]

I think I already said, that I had to send back my new Avalon L32C jumbo because of 2 cracks... It broke my heart to pack it up and send it out. Really. The more I played it, the more the tone captured me.

 

So, here I am with my 15 year old, small bodied Yamaha APX10T. I examined (for the first time in 15 years) whether the sides/back were laminates or not... they are, and am having a really hard time playing it. I thought it sounded pretty good before... actually great through a sound system. But, the tone unplugged it just dreadful now. My Avalon has ruined me!!!

 

The Yamaha aged solid spruce top sounds alright, but even with new strings, it just does not have the resonance of my Avalon. The Avalon, even with a little bit too dominant (at this point) mids and highs, just sounds "alive"... like a living thing. Now I am a waiting game for my new guitar to come back!!!