The real value of a high-end guitar

[LiveMusic]

In today's world, with Asian companies making such high quality guitars for a fraction of what a high end guitar costs... why buy a high-end guitar? Let's factor out appreciation or value-holding potential. Why pay $3000 or whatever versus, say, $500 to $1,000? What would the $3000 (or more) guitar give you?

[32-20-Blues]

 

In today's world, with Asian companies making such high quality guitars for a fraction of what a high end guitar costs... why buy a high-end guitar? Let's factor out appreciation or value-holding potential. Why pay $3000 or whatever versus, say, $500 to $1,000? What would the $3000 (or more) guitar give you?

 

 

True, the law of diminishing returns starts to have a greater influence once you hit the 1,000 to 1,500 mark, but a more expensive guitar constitutes a better investment (arguably) and luxuries that some people love - flamed/quilted/bearclaw timber, flawless inlays, etc.

 

Personally, my ideal guitar is a Martin D15 - American made, beautiful sounding, and built to be played. 1,000 dollars, and it's all I would ever need in the way of a steel string.

[Cripes]

Rational question for rational people. I don't know any truly rational guitarists.

[dmn23]

 

Rational question for rational people. I don't know any truly rational guitarists.

 

And the Truer Words Were Never Spoken Award goes to...!

[LaurentB]

Rational question for rational people. I don't know any truly rational guitarists.

 

I am one, but then again you don't know me

[moctzal]

I'd say I'm an entirely rational person....until music and/or girls are involved...

[sdelsolray]

The 7 guitars I own have current (new) street prices of between $2,500 and $6,000. The one I've had the longest, since 1999, sells more now used than I paid for it. So I really haven't paid anything for it in 8 years, and it sounds and plays great, much much better than any Asian import or other $1,000+- guitar I've ever played.

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Stackabones]

 

I'd say I'm an entirely rational person....until music and/or girls are involved...

 

 

Ditto. But when are music and/or women not involved in my life?

[guitarist21]

 

Rational question for rational people. I don't know any truly rational guitarists.

 

 

I'm convinced they don't exist. I thought I was one for a while but that was totally irrational.

 

Ellen

[DonK]

 

The 7 guitars I own have current (new) street prices of between $2,500 and $6,000. The one I've had the longest, since 1999, sells more now used than I paid for it. So I really haven't paid anything for it in 8 years, and it sounds and plays great, much much better than any Asian import or other $1,000+- guitar I've ever played. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

 

It's not really as simple as that. If you bought a $1,000 guitar and got the same utility as you could have bought from a $6,000 guitar (assuming for the sake of illustration that's the one your talking about - it may not be), then you could have invested the $5,000 difference over the intervening 8 years. At 5%, you'd have earned $2,387 over that time; thus, your $6,000 guitar would have to be worth $8,387 today (and maybe it is) for it to have not cost you anything.

 

Most guitars - even expensive ones - don't appreciate at anything like 5% per year, if they appreciate at all. I point this out because it bears on the OP's question. Unless a guitar either appreciates at the rate of return one could earn on an alternative investment with similar risk characteristics, then only greater utility or intangible emotional value could justify the cost difference, not economics.

 

I've got one or two high-end guitars, and I've owned several others; I love(d) having them, but for the most part they've been lousy financial investments.

[Cripes]

We all have our druthers. If I might try my hand at perspective...

 

As a person grows into his/her skills, there is always a corresponding change to what the ear does. At first it hears. Later it listens. Slight nuances in tonal differences between the $ instrument and another $$$ instrument are not really noticed because the ear is not looking for nuances. It doesn't recognize them yet. Moreover, the task of learning - motor skills - is so consuming that any other focus is tangential. As the motor skills develop, aural skills begin to develop because the ear is becoming trained to listen rather than just hear. When listening becomes acute, the tonal differences between $ and $$$ that were not noticed before gradually become quite apparent and then the search begins for the holy grail of sound. Things like looks and playability play an important but secondary role to sound.

 

High-end instruments are crafted for sound. They may be dressed out in decoration but their makers pride themselves on the aural qualities they have embodied in their work, and they ensure this with each instrument they produce. This comes at a premium for those willing to compensate them for their dedication to that end. The question about how much better relative to the cost is a valid question. The answer is not found in logic. It's found in your ear and how much you are willing to spend to satisfy the sound your ear is looking for. Yea, you want to satisfy a need to hear a particular sound but you don't have the means to do it. Some of us can and we do. Like sdelsolray points out, to us it becomes a no-brainer. That's where we find satisfaction and it isn't because we have money to spend but rather we want to listen to what we want to listen to.

 

Like I said, it's a rational question for rational people. I will not rationalize my music to fit a price range. That won't happen.

[Hudman]

I think there is a difference between boutique high end guitars and massed produced guitars regardless of price. Boutique guitars are custom made. In other words, a small custom builder can build guitars superior to the regular production model Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, etc.

 

The asian companies use the same mass production techniques that Martin, Taylor and Gibson use. I still think the USA made guitars are higher quality but not enough to justify me paying 4 to 6 times what the "high end" asian or Canadian made guitars cost.

 

Resale values are better on high end acoustics by the big American companies.

 

I guess it all comes down to priorities. No different than most other things in life.

[Cripes]

 

I guess it all comes down to priorities. No different than most other things in life.

 

 

+1

[LiveMusic]

How do the Canadian guitars make it into this discussion? Deservedly so, supposedly (I don't have one). But in Asia, they can get labor dirt cheap. Not so in Canada, right?

[Hudman]

 

How do the Canadian guitars make it into this discussion? Deservedly so, supposedly (I don't have one). But in Asia, they can get labor dirt cheap. Not so in Canada, right?

 

 

Canadian guitars tend to be a lot less expensive than American made guitars. I am willing to bet their profit margins are much lower than the USA and Chinese made guitars. They have national health care in Canada. I'm sure that gives them an advantage over US manufacturers.

[rvschulz]

The 7 guitars I own have current (new) street prices of between $2,500 and $6,000. The one I've had the longest, since 1999, sells more now used than I paid for it. So I really haven't paid anything for it in 8 years, and it sounds and plays great, much much better than any Asian import or other $1,000+- guitar I've ever played. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

sorry to be nosy, but what guitar did you pay $6K for ? not to criticize, just to be informed. if i had the cash - i would purchase expensive guitars for several reasons but mainly if i liked them. curious as to what you liked ?

 

thanks.

[sdelsolray]

 

It's not really as simple as that. If you bought a $1,000 guitar and got the same utility as you could have bought from a $6,000 guitar (assuming for the sake of illustration that's the one your talking about - it may not be), then you could have invested the $5,000 difference over the intervening 8 years. At 5%, you'd have earned $2,387 over that time; thus, your $6,000 guitar would have to be worth $8,387 today (and maybe it is) for it to have not cost you anything. Most guitars - even expensive ones - don't appreciate at anything like 5% per year, if they appreciate at all. I point this out because it bears on the OP's question. Unless a guitar either appreciates at the rate of return one could earn on an alternative investment with similar risk characteristics, then only greater utility or intangible emotional value could justify the cost difference, not economics. I've got one or two high-end guitars, and I've owned several others; I love(d) having them, but for the most part they've been lousy financial investments.

 

 

It is that simple. You just misread my post. I said the current street price of one of my guitars is $6k. It's current used value is more than I paid for it new 8 years ago.

 

I'm lke you, I agree guitars are not to be bought for investment. The money spent on them is for the enjoyment of music. Still, many quality guitars appreaciate in value over time. Take just about any Goodall, Collings, McCollum, etc from ten years ago. Assuming they are in very good shape, they all sell for more now used than they cost new 10 years ago. I don't think you be able to say that for an -03 Larrivee, for example, after 10 years. Maybe, but probably not.

 

And then there's the sound.

[sdelsolray]

sorry to be nosy, but what guitar did you pay $6K for ? not to criticize, just to be informed. if i had the cash - i would purchase expensive guitars for several reasons but mainly if i liked them. curious as to what you liked ? thanks.

 

The current street price, new, of a Tippin OMT, EIR/German Spruce, -41 style with deco fingerboard inlays is just north of $6k. I paid $2,600 for it new in 1999 and it's worth about $3,500 now. I've had the frets replaced twice.

[DonK]

 

It is that simple. You just misread my post. I said the current street price of one of my guitars is $6k. It's current used value is more than I paid for it new 8 years ago. I'm lke you, I agree guitars are not to be bought for investment. The money spent on them is for the enjoyment of music. Still, many quality guitars appreaciate in value over time. Take just about any Goodall, Collings, McCollum, etc from ten years ago. Assuming they are in very good shape, they all sell for more now used than they cost new 10 years ago. I don't think you be able to say that for an -03 Larrivee, for example, after 10 years. Maybe, but probably not. And then there's the sound.

 

 

No, it's not that simple, and I didn't misread your post. I was responding to the "seems like a no-brainer" comment. Any investment that appreciates more than an alternative investment can be labeled a "no brainer" in hindsight; the trick is knowing in advance that it will turn out to be a "no-brainer". That requires prophetic vision, something few people possess regarding the investment returns on guitars.

 

I wasn't talking about YOUR $6K guitar - I merely used it for illustrative purposes, as I pointed out (and I noted that it may not even have been the one were referring to in any event). At no time did I say that there are no guitars that appreciate. I said that most don't, and that even fewer appreciate at a rate that makes them a worthy economic investment.

 

The money spent on them for enjoyment of music is the utility I spoke about. The degree of that utility in regard to a particular guitar is subjective.

 

EDIT: Aww, I'm in a bitchy mood tonight for some reason; I think tax season has finally gotten to me... I love high-end guitars; I wish I had a Dudenbostel, a Collings, a Henderson, and a Froggy Bottom in my collection!

[MBWendel]

I want to approach this topic in a way that doesn't get anyone pissed at me. Here goes - I don't think that the Asian imports, even that certain brand that everyone raves about, is as well made as say, a Huss, or Goodall, or Collings. I do not feel that they are as well made as a Martin or Taylor, in most cases.

 

There have been some reports from luthiers much better than myself (and who do repair which I don't) that some of these instruments may sound so good because of techniques that should not be employed (necessarily). Like Spruce as a Bridge Caul, or excessive scalloping of the brace structure. There is some question as to will they last.

 

That said, I have never once played an import instrument that would hold its own against a Goodall, Huss or Collings. Of course, this is only my opinion.

[DonK]

I want to approach this topic in a way that doesn't get anyone pissed at me. Here goes - I don't think that the Asian imports, even that certain brand that everyone raves about, is as well made as say, a Huss, or Goodall, or Collings. I do not feel that they are as well made as a Martin or Taylor, in most cases. There have been some reports from luthiers much better than myself (and who do repair which I don't) that some of these instruments may sound so good because of techniques that should not be employed (necessarily). Like Spruce as a Bridge Caul, or excessive scalloping of the brace structure. There is some question as to will they last. That said, I have never once played an import instrument that would hold its own against a Goodall, Huss or Collings. Of course, this is only my opinion.

 

Haven't spent enough time with a Goodall or H&D to comment on those, but I haven't found that many instruments, period, that can hold their own against a Collings!

[MBWendel]

Haven't spent enough time with a Goodall or H&D to comment on those, but I haven't found that many instruments, period, that can hold their own against a Collings!

 

 

Yup. Collings really "out-Martins" Martin, IMHO. H&D is much the same. I will tell you, though, Goodall is one of the small firms that really makes a different sounding guitar. Great for the Celtic/"new-age" thing. I love them.

 

When the truck, masters (fiance is getting a 2nd now), house, vet bills, college fund for the kids that don't exist and retirement is all squared away, I will have one of his Maple/Cedar OM's.

[d28andm1911a1]

Real value is that "I want it"

[LiveMusic]

 

The current street price, new, of a Tippin OMT, EIR/German Spruce, -41 style with deco fingerboard inlays is just north of $6k. I paid $2,600 for it new in 1999 and it's worth about $3,500 now. I've had the frets replaced twice.

 

 

You've had the frets replaced twice in eight years? Is this not unusual? Do you play that much or what? (I know nothing of fret replacing... how often it happens.)

[LiveMusic]

Those such as Collings or Goodall guitars... are these made to order or do they have a showroom you can try several? Or do they produce so many that there are dealers that have them in stock?