Blind Tonewoods Listening Test

[Etienne Rambert]

I'm wondering if people can really tell the tone wood of a guitar by listening.

 

I am shipping my 35 year-old Guild back this week to its rightful owner, my youngest son. I had it restored for him. After I do, I won't have any Mahogany guitars at my place.

 

But right now, I have an Indian Rosewood/Cedar, Maple/Spruce dread and a solid Mahogany Guild D-25 sitting around. So I recorded all 3 guitars as a comparison of their respective tones. Here is the recording.

 

I'm wondering if people can really tell the tonewood of a guitar by listening.

 

If you're interested, take the poll and also let me know which one you think sounds best. Also please excuse the lame lead playing, I'm not a lead player. A poor steel-guitar rag is my limit for leads.

[zen501]

I liked #3 best,I'm pickin that it was the ceder/rose,but I've been wrong before.

[Etienne Rambert]

Thanks. I need to wait for a few more opinions before I give out the answer. It's very helpful to hear other players' opinions though. The guitar I think sounds the best may sound totally different to other people's ears.

 

The should be no variables in this test. The strings on all three are all D'Addario 80/20 .11's. One of the guitars is new, so it has a new set of these strings. The other two guitars' string sets have approximately the same amount of playing time on each.

 

The mic placement (Rode NT-1) is exactly the same. The distance from the sound hole is exactly the same. The musical parts I'm playing are exactly the same. I didn't doctor the sound for volume or put any FX on this recording.

 

So there shouldn't be any variables. It's interesting to see if people can detect the differences in tone woods. Of course, hearing something on a recording is different from hearing it up close, or playing the instrument itself.

[athomas]

this is tough, but I love the 2nd one.

[Faheyfan]

Hi, I appreciate what you're trying to do here in offering a blind test of different tonewoods. However I think the entire concept of doing it online using recordings is invalid. No one listening to this or any other recorded test or soundclip of a guitar for sale is hearing the guitar in question.

What they are hearing is the sound of a couple of tiny speakers run by a miniscule amplifier recreating the sound of an analog signal that has been recorded, digitized, transmitted through phone or cable lines, maybe bounced off a satellite, brought into their house, sent either through the air or by wire to their computer, undigitized and turned back into an analog signal, amplified and played over generally stunningly inferior playback equipment.

You're NOT hearing the sound of notes in air created by strings and wood moving together unless you have that guitar in the room with you. It's the same when a guitar salesman offers to play me a guitar over the phone. That may tell me something real if I'm shopping for a phone cause I'm hearing how a particular phone sounds not how a guitar sounds.If the guitar arrived and it sounded exactly like the phone so you had to put your ear within 3 inches of it to hear it, would you keep it?

The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that no 2 people are hearing the same test unless they own the same computer or headphones or whatever they are listening through.

All that said, I do find real value in this and tests likethe pin test. But all I believe you can really determine with any accuracy is do any 2 sources sound different. No more than that. So the pin test did tell me that different pins may indeed change the sound of a guitar and answered a question I'd wondered about.

[Tralfaz]

It's hard to tell on my tiny laptop speakers. On its own, #3 sounds the best. But for working into a mix with other instruments, I'd go with #1 because it sounds tidier and easier to work with. And of course, if I heard these clips through better speakers, my answer might be completely different.

[Etienne Rambert]

I agree with Faheyfan, except that none of these guitars are for sale. I don't sell guitars. I love all 3. I don't want to part with any of them. One is a bona fide family heirloom.

 

Sound recordings aren't the same as live. Even live - I wonder if many people can correctly guess the tonewood. And there are different qualities and ages of tonewoods as well. All of those are variables. But I tried to eliminate as many variables as were within my control though. Each was recorded "as is", no tweaking, no FX.

 

I won't say if anyone chose the correct answer yet. Where there is confusion - it is occurring exactly where I hypothesized it would happen.

 

It's an interesting test to me. We talk about woods. Can we really tell the difference on a recording? Or can we tell the difference with a blindfold on in the same room, for that matter?

 

This is only a 128KBPs mp3. But it's a reasonably good recording for a hotel room in a 3rd world country.

I listen with SONY monitoring headphones. So the sound quality is pretty good.

 

BTW, concerning AThomas's comment, the guitar that seemed to lose the most in the recording process was #2, in my opinion. It is the only guitar that the recording short-changes.

 

I can't say more than that without giving it away.

 

(*A better guitar player might make the differences more apparent.)

[Clif Schlicher]

Interesting test, and what ever may be said about the recording/playback problems, the real issue here is not that it is an evaluation of tonewoods, but tonewood combinations. Various spruces and cedar on rosewood would be anexample of a tonewood test, as would Sitka spruce on maple, mahogany and rosewood.

 

I realize you were using what you had at hand and I enjoyed particiapating in the test. Interesting..........

[markwayne]

#1 sounds like roseswood to me. #2 sounds like mahogany. The touble for me is that #3 didn't sound like maple on my little computer speakers (unless it was a jumbo). Were these all dreads? Were they all Guilds? It's so hard to do a blind test that factors out all other variables except for tonewood.

 

Oh, and I like #1 the best.

 

Wayne

[drnihili]

I'm torn between 1 and 3, probably a slight preference for 3. I've got good speakers to listen on, but not much experience to base my guess (mahogany, maple, rose) on.

[EvilTwin]

I'm at work right now, but I can't wait to get home and give this a listen. Great thread, marcellis.

[Etienne Rambert]

Mark Wayne:

"Were these all dreads? Were they all Guilds? It's so hard to do a blind test that factors out all other variables except for tonewood. Oh, and I like #1 the best."

 

 

Two dreads & 1 new Indian Rosewood./Cedar Jumbo. Only one Guild, a 35 year old D-25. ET should have an advantage here, since you own a recent vintage D-25, don't you?

 

Here's a pic of all 3.

[EvilTwin]

I've got the GAD-25, the Chinese version of the D-25, marcellis. I don't know how it compares to the older models...but I do know the new one kicks a ton of ass. However, low humidity gave it a crack that I'm working on. I haven't played it for a month now.

 

But I'm looking forward to listening to the new recordings and trying to pick the vintage 'hog top out.

[Freeman Keller]

OK, Marcellis, I'll hazzard an opinion after one listen. I didn't go back, these were the reactions that popped up as I heard each one

 

#1 is a very mellow complex sounding guitar. I'm very familiar with rosewood, but not with cedar. However I'm going to say that is what I'm hearing.

 

#2 is bright, until I came to the single note run I was sure it was maple, but then I thought "hog". I'll stay with maple for that one, however.

 

#3 the notes are sharp and defined, and so I'll say mahogany dread here.

 

There is no "best" here - three nice guitars. If one was to follow me home it would probably be the first one, but I liked 3 a lot too. Nice test. btw. We should do this more often. Mixing the different styles of play was a nice touch. Thanks

 

mmmm - I just went back and looked at he voting options - none of them match mine LOL. Oh well.....

[TXTooMuch]

I am going with "Indian Rosewood, Mahogany, Maple Spruce" because when I first listened to it, I thought the first guitar sounded most like mine, which is a Rosewood/Spruce model.

 

I liked all 3 though, can I have 'em all?

[Etienne Rambert]

I'm going to work. It's morning here. I'll wait until ET hazards a guess before I give out the results.

 

I hope other people will post tests like this. I won't rush out and buy 3 more guitars to try it again. But many forumites here own several guitars. It could be run by brand, age, tone woods...whatever.

 

In this test, each of the guitars has distinctly different woods. Each has a different top wood. Each has different woods on the back & sides. I wonder if the test would be easier if the top woods were all the same and the B&S woods were the only difference.

 

Dunno.

[Hudman]

I'm going to work. It's morning here. I'll wait until ET hazards a guess before I give out the results. I hope other people will post tests like this. I won't rush out and buy 3 more guitars to try it again. But many forumites here own several guitars. It could be run by brand, age, tone woods...whatever. In this test, each of the guitars has distinctly different woods. Each has a different top wood. Each has different woods on the back & sides. I wonder if the test would be easier if the top woods were all the same and the B&S woods were the only difference. Dunno.

 

Bracing pattern, the thickness of the braces, scale length of the guitar and dimensions of the body all play a role in shaping the tone. It would be best if you had 3 identical guitars (bracing pattern / design) with different tonewoods. That would give you a true control group for a more scientific test.

 

I'm guessing: maple, rosewood, mahogany.

 

I think the mahogany (#3?) had the best tone.

 

Nice job.

[moctzal]

I'm thinking rosewood, mahog and then maple.

Great thread.

[Berkleo]

Wow that was a lot of fun!

And I got to listen with the added benefit of a dog squeeky toy joyously sounding behind me for the duration.

I'm not that familar with Maple, but I was convinced #1 was Rosewood until I was more convinced #3 was Mahogany. So my guess is Maple, Rosewood, Mahogany. All sounded great in concert with the squeeky.

Thanks for the thread.

[Etienne Rambert]

I don't know what happened to ET. I was hoping a D-25 owner would recognize an old D-25. I'll wait a few hours more then post the answers.

[gt5litre]

1 mahogany warm, but a little sly on top end 2 Cedar/spruce got most of that from the finger-style test and the last (#3) is the maple/ spruce. I do have a 16" fan rotating and movin' air about 2 feet from my head and ears. I have a tough time with maple as I have not heard a lot of them from a listeners perspective.

 

gt5litre

[EvilTwin]

 

I don't know what happened to ET. I was hoping a D-25 owner would recognize an old D-25. I'll wait a few hours more then post the answers.

 

 

Hey amigo. Sorry for the tardiness. I didn't get in 'til after midnight last night, so I didn't get a chance to log on to my computer to give a listen. If you post the results, they'll be on page 2, so I just won't click that (scout's honor) until I listen this afternoon and post.

[Etienne Rambert]

gt5litre:

1 mahogany warm, but a little sly on top end 2 Cedar/spruce got most of that from the finger-style test and the last (#3) is the maple/ spruce. I do have a 16" fan rotating and movin' air about 2 feet from my head and ears. I have a tough time with maple as I have not heard a lot of them from a listeners perspective.

 

 

Well, putting it that way...you nailed it.

 

#1 = 35 year old Guild Mahogany D-25 (3 votes for best-sounding)

#2 = 2 week old Indian Rosewood/Cedar Jumbo (2 votes)

#3 = Maple Spruce. (4 votes)

 

That was the order I recorded them in.

 

I'm not surprised that more listeners (4), thought #3 was the best-sounding guitar. It's really interesting that nobody among the listeners who thought it sounded the best, thought it was Maple-Spruce. Other listeners thought it was Mahogany or IR/Cedar. And only a minority of all listeners thought #3 was Maple.

 

That's the most interesting part of this poll to me. Maple is reputed to be clear, present, even brittle at times. At the guitar shops in Saigon, more often than not, the best-sounding guitars are Maple-Spruce. It's what the local players buy too. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the heat & humidity that give Maple a fuller sound over here.

 

The old Guild & the Maple dread recorded true. The IR/Cedar lost something in the recording. Right now, it has my favorite tone of the 3. But it lost the most in recording.

 

I compose using keys & synth orchestral patches. I add the acoustic guitar/vocals at the end of the recording process. It has always been hard for me to fit an acoustic guitar into a digital synth arrangement. But this Maple dread integrates seamlessly into my digital arrangements, every time I've tried , whether it's light Jazz/EZ listening or Country/Asiana.

 

The Guild records well. But it doesn't fit seamlessly into my arrangements like the Maple does. Either it sounds brilliant or it doesn't fit. It kicks ass in a silly Rockabilly arrangement or a Folk/Country arrangement. But it flops in a Latin Pop arrangement.

 

The Maple dread never flops. It hasn't yet, anyway.

 

I have recorded with a lot of expensive guitars, 814 ce, Collings, an early 70's Guild JF-55, a 60's era Gibson J-160. But this particular Maple dread beats all I've owned or played for recording. Turn on the mic - it's ready.

 

I have yet to learn how to record the IR/Cedar Jumbo. It's so big - it's a totally new experience. But I like the tone. It got my vote for the best-sounding of the 3.

 

*Just listen to the opening chord on either of those numbers.

[0rbitz9]

Hmm, I thought #1 was the maple/spruce guitar, because it was the one

that sounded the closest to my maple/spruce guitar.

[EvilTwin]

Whew, this is tough. I promised no peeking, so here goes...

 

Number three has got to be the maple/spruce guitar. It's lows aren't as soft, but it still sounds good. I could imagine hearing that guitar playing hot-club style gypsy jazz, actually. It has that zing in the low registers, but it doesn't make the highs sound tinny.

 

I was torn between one and two to decide on the all-mahogany Guild. But going through another listen, I'm thinking it's the first guitar -- it's all sweet midrange. For lack of a better word, when the first chord is strummed, it just sounds "majestic." The highs and lows are very, very even. The guitar just purrs.

 

The second guitar has lower lows and the highs are a little higher, so I'm thinking it's the cedar/rosewood.

 

They all sound great. It's hard to pick a favorite. Number three is great and would be the choice if you want to cut across a room. The first two are close, but I dig the first guitar the most, which I think is the Guild. I like all-mahogany dreads because they aren't tailored for ringing treble.

 

But I could be wrong...