I took the plung and lowered my action

[bradhannah]

I was nervous as hell but I did it. I start by measuring my clearances at the 12th on HighE and LowE. They were 2.5/34 and 4/32 too high.. I made the marks on my saddle and sanded it down. I noticed it was not completely even so I was happy to sand it.

 

I reinstalled it with my Medium mediums (practically new).

 

The action was friggen awesome, it turns out I am a much better guitar player than I thought. Barre'ing seems like a breeze finally..

 

Now for the bad news, I usually play sans pick, which sounds terrific, but with my pick there is a semi-annoying buzz.

 

I am curious about neck relief, I am going to spend time with my CAPO finding the buzz's but, is there supposed to be an arc on the neck? I had this inclination that a neck should be perfectly straight. I read the "Is you guitar sicK", but didn't get a real feel for how it should be.

 

Also, does it really matter to let it rest better neck adjustments (half a turn = half a day).

 

Thanks,

Brad

[Freeman Keller]

Glad you like the action improvements. The neck should have a very slight bow from the nut to where it meets the body (usually the 12th fret) and will be flat or drop off a little from there to the sound hole. If you capo it at 1 and hold a string down at 12 (the string makes a wonderful straight edge) you should have a little bit of clearance at the 6th or 7th fret - a simple measurement is about one business card - not more than two. You most definitely want some clearance - if the string touches other frets that it bad.

 

Usually if you have too flat a neck you will get buzzing on the lower frets - 1, 2, 3. If you too much relief (the neck is really bowed) you will get buzzing at upper frets - 9, 10, 11. It is also possible that only one fret will buzz - most likely one of the higher ones - because it is too high - you can hear this as you play notes on one string moving up the neck. Suddenly it will skip one note and play the next higher one (usually not clearly). You can find a high fret by rocking a short straightedge or ruler. The normal fix is to file the fret level with its neightbors, then recrown it.

 

Also be aware that changing the relief with the truss rod will affect the action, but that is not its function. Because of this I like to measure and adjust the relief first, then bring the saddle down if necessary. You might find that after adjusting the relief your saddle needs a little tweak (maybe even raised).

 

Half a turn is WAY too much - make very small adjustments in the T/R (1/8 to no more than 1/4 turn) and let it set for at a little while. T/R adjustments should be made with string tension on (kind of tricky with the Martin style adjuster in the sound hole). Be careful with the T/R - is it possible to strip or break them. Make a small change, tune up, measure, check up and down the neck for buzzing, then make another small change.

 

Good luck

[bradhannah]

Freeman,

 

Thanks for the input. I will adjust the rod for more relief tonight as it was the higher frets causing the buzzes. I can't wait to get home and give it another go. It was so damn satisfying last night to have a guitar play so easily.

[Freeman Keller]

If you are sitting around work completely bored looking for something to read here is the granddaddy of articles on neck relief. Bryan has set up both of my Martins and I've tried to follow his lead when I do my own work.

 

Kimsey neck relief theory

 

He argues for a very flat neck - more like 0.004 or 0.006, but 0.010 seems to be a pretty good compromise. Remember that old Marties don't have adjustable rods, but he managed to get the relief when he did some refretting and crowning. FWIW, I've had a cronic buzz on the 9th fret of my 000, the other night when I was restringing I took a couple of swipes with a crowning file and it seems much better.

 

And you are preachin' to the choir, 'bro. I love it when someone gets (or does) a good setup and reports what a pleasure their baby is to play.

[Dave W.]

 

Freeman, Thanks for the input. I will adjust the rod for more relief tonight as it was the higher frets causing the buzzes. I can't wait to get home and give it another go. It was so damn satisfying last night to have a guitar play so easily.

 

 

You need to re-read Freeman's second paragraph...too much relief causes upper fret buzz. You say you have upper fret buzz and are talking about adding more relief, which will probably make it worse. The first thing you need to do is to determine how much releif you do or don't have, then go from there. All of these adjustments interact with each other, so they should be considered in proper sequence. Between Freeman's sticky and Kimsey's web site, you will find the whole process, but you need to let it all sink in so you understand what is going on. Have fun, it is very satisfying to do your own setup and have the guitar improve.

[bradhannah]

Quoted from Freeman:

---

Symptoms of relief problems are usually buzzing strings at more than one fret. If the strings buzz in the first position (frets 1 thru maybe 4 or so) you probably don

[Freeman Keller]

 

Quoted from Freeman: --- Symptoms of relief problems are usually buzzing strings at more than one fret. If the strings buzz in the first position (frets 1 thru maybe 4 or so) you probably don

[bradhannah]

My bad, I used terms "higher frets"... My inexperience spilling over... I mean frets 1-4'ish.. not "higher" on the fretboard.

 

I see the err' of my ways.. :>

[Freeman Keller]

 

My bad, I used terms "higher frets"... My inexperience spilling over... I mean frets 1-4'ish.. not "higher" on the fretboard. I see the err' of my ways.. :>

 

 

"High" as in higher pitched notes. Kinda like saying that the highest string is the lowest (closest to the floor), but it makes the highest note.

 

If it is truely the first few frets, does it buzz with the strings open (unfretted)? If so check the nut clearance also - by lowering the action you might have pushed that over the limit. If it is clean unfretted and buzzes when you hold the string down, then you probably do need to add a tiny bit of relief (loosen the rod).

[bradhannah]

Good good good.. I feel better.. I was going over diagrams and running through my head how the opposite directions could be true and I just couldn't make it work. Its nice to know that I am not off my rocker. I will report tommorrow on how it went.

 

If it doesn't I will take an even closer look at the article you linked to earlier.

[Hudman]

Excellent!

 

I love it when I read about people working on their own guitars. It's easier than most people think. Many guitar players are terrified at the thought of adjusting the truss rod. They act like the earth will tip off it's axis if they give their truss rod a 1/4 turn. Silly stuff.

 

I've been playing 23 years and never had anyone work on any of my guitars. I learned by experimenting and reading articles in magazines back in the 1980's and early 1990's. The internet is full of great guitar set-up information. I enjoy working on guitars almost as much as I enjoy playing them. I got great feedback on every guitar I ever sold on Ebay. My buyers always compliment the set-up work. I'm no genius. If I can do it, anyone can.

 

I will never understand why people feel comfortable allowing a stranger to work on their guitars. How do you know the person is qualified? They may be more clueless than you are. Why pay an idiot to wreck your guitar if you can do it for free? (just kidding - ).

[bradhannah]

so, I just adjusted to truss rod a little, and it did eliminate the buzzing as anticipated, however it obviously brought my action back up some. I am going to give it all time to settle, but I vow to get it "perfect". I want the meanest lowest action without a single buzz, come hell or high water.

 

PS Hudman for the record I may be adjusting it, but I am terrified everytime I turn that allan wrench. I can't afford a new guitar to replace this one if it breaks, so it makes it extra scary.

 

PPS for all curious it is a basic model AJ15 NA from Epiphone

[Dave W.]

PS Hudman for the record I may be adjusting it, but I am terrified everytime I turn that allan wrench. I can't afford a new guitar to replace this one if it breaks, so it makes it extra scary.

 

 

A little fear is a healthy thing, as long as you use knowledge to keep it in it's place.

 

Before the days of the internet, and it's wealth of knowledge, I spent years setting the action on my guitars using only a crude nut file and a truss rod wrench. Never gave a thought to the saddle...duh.

[Freeman Keller]

 

so, I just adjusted to truss rod a little, and it did eliminate the buzzing as anticipated, however it obviously brought my action back up some. I am going to give it all time to settle, but I vow to get it "perfect". I want the meanest lowest action without a single buzz, come hell or high water.

 

 

LOL, now don't get too carried away. Raising the saddle is a lot more difficult than lowering it. But glad to hear it is working. Take some measurements as you approach perfection and write them down for reference.

 

And enjoy your sweet playing Epi!

[eflat]

Hmm I have GOT to find time to post some pics on here. . . you guys seem to know exactly what you're on about. . .think you could tell me if my actions wrong just from lookin at some pics?

[Dave W.]

 

Hmm I have GOT to find time to post some pics on here. . . you guys seem to know exactly what you're on about. . .think you could tell me if my actions wrong just from lookin at some pics?

 

 

That can be tough just from pictures. It would be far better if you would read the referenced material and learn how to take accurate measurements. A good setup is not really a visual thing, though I am sure top notch guitar techs can tell a lot by eye, before getting out the calipers.

[bradhannah]

Latest Update...

I went to the local music store to pick up a bone saddle, I found the right length and width, however it was actually shorter than my actual already shaved saddle. The guy said you would want it much higher than what they sold. He told me my guitar might need a fret dress (shaving them down?), needless to say his is advice was short, "I will give a refund on the saddle, and bring in your guitar." I am quite afraid of spending too much $$$.

 

If my guitar is worth $250 new, it is hard to spend $60 on fret dress + $40 on pro setup. I suppose i will eventually bite the bullet, but for now I exchanged the saddle for a some Martin Lights and they play much better than the mediums i had on.

 

In the end my action is still much better than it was, there is no fret buzz, and I am a little wiser. Good enough for me..

[eflat]

Dave, I know what you mean. . . I suppose I'm more nervous than this OP to do anything to my guitar. Will have a look at the links though!