laptop recording

[wiseoldman]

I would like to start recording on to a laptop and have done some basic research however, I now have more questions than I did before.

 

Heres a few to begin with:

 

1. I have a powered PA/mixer combo. Is this best to record through, all a plain mixer etc.

2. It seems I need some sort of

[mikechoate]

To give you an idea... i record almost all my ideas onto my laptop with this signal chain:

 

Red5 RV8 (Large Diaphragm Condenser) > Tascam US-122 USB Interface/Preamp($150) > Adobe Audition (multi-track recording software)

 

The Tascam unit has two channels and phantom power, so you can easily run two mics or two guitars, or one of each. Simple setup that doesn't sound half bad for 300 bucks

[eor]

is the laptop your main computer? is it mobile or stationary? do you use it for other things, too?

 

the reason i ask is because you'd probably use the computer for more than music, therefore; (as in most cases) less is better. you probably want something quick and dirty, as it is really aggravating to sit there and troubleshoot and dick around with all kinds of knick knacks. too much time and creativity lost looking for your power strip, plugging things in, getting up to move knobs and faders around, trying to work the mouse with your free hand, knocking the mic over with your headstock whenever your turn to the right, tripping over a cable and unplugging something, etc...

 

also, what are your goals? just getting ideas down, building songs, or high quality stuff?

 

suss out all the above before you start.

 

if you just want an audio sketchpad, eor's best advice would be as follows:

 

guitar (with external pup) > audio interface > laptop

 

not the best in terms of sound quality, but frankly, unless you have a sound proofed room, where the cars aren't passing by, your cell phone isn't ringing, your fishtank isn't running in the background, it won't sound so great anyway. bear in mind that "real life" home recording is incredibly frustrating and a huge money pit. i wouldn't even bring mics into the equation unless you are doing vocals, which will sound pretty bad unless conditions are optimized, which they never are in "real life" home recording.

 

didn't mean to be a douche, but i want you to know what's in store.

 

love,

eor

 

to address your questions:

 

1. I have a powered PA/mixer combo. Is this best to record through, all a plain mixer etc.

 

see "less is better" rant above. i would use one if you were recording from different sources simultaneously (like, a pick up and several mics) or if you wanted to add volume/eq/effects (assuming your mixer does that, but a lower mid level interface might provide that).

 

2. It seems I need some sort of

[Dan Hall]

http://www.acousticplayermagazine.com/apm001/techtalk001/homerecord1_001.html

 

Start here wiseoldfart. I would not recommend the Roland something somethin 25 usb interface though. I'm too stupid to get it going. The whole shebang is at my buddies house getting the bugs worked out. The above link though answers a lot of questions.

[brahmz118]

 

I would like to start recording on to a laptop and have done some basic research however, I now have more questions than I did before.   Heres a few to begin with:   1. I have a powered PA/mixer combo. Is this best to record through, all a plain mixer etc. 2. It seems I need some sort of

[Etienne Rambert]

I've recorded all my music on laptops since 2001.

 

1. I have a powered PA/mixer combo. Is this best to record through, all a plain mixer etc.

 

 

How many instruments are you recording at the same time?

Mixers are good for mixing different instruments together with different settings, at the same time.

 

I don't have a mixer with me in Saigon. I record one track at a time. I use my old Yamaha MU90 synth module for acoustic guitar FX.

--

 

2. It seems I need some sort of

[danimal99]

I have a Line6 GuitarPort USB interface that I've used for a couple of years to record with. It was I think $89, but was worth it for playing around with lots of effects on my electric without investing in pedals. Works fine with acoustics too (you don't have to use any effects).

[jerime]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

 

Should answer most of you questions.

[Kerouac]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm Should answer most of you questions.

 

 

Yup... but jsut as an aside, I really like the EMU stuff and they make a laptop version... 1616m, I believe?

[Etienne Rambert]

 

"what is the difference between the firewire and usb connections. Does firewire make it sound much better than a usb connection ie is it worth paying extra money for."

 

 

Keep in mind - if you go directly into your laptop via your pre-amp, the discussions about firewire vs. USB are irrelevant. You don't need either one.

 

If you are talking about what type of D/A converter to buy, USB is not the best medium for recording digital audio. It's slow. It's sometimes hard to install via Windows.

 

The good thing about USB is that it's truly universal. It's everywhere. Firewire isn't. But it's a lot faster and more stable than USB. I own a USB D/A converter, the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96. I didn't bring it with me to Asia. It's not essential that I have a D/A converter to make excellent recordings.

[coldfingaz]

 

Keep in mind - if you go directly into your laptop via your pre-amp, the discussions about firewire vs. USB are irrelevant. You don't need either one.

 

 

 

Really? If so, this is great news for me. Just so I understand, here is my gear:

 

Dell Laptop

Cool Edit Pro (Adobe Audition)

M-Audio Audiophile USB (24/96)

FMR Audio RNP Pre-amp

Behringer Eurorack UB802 mixer

Mic

 

 

What do I need and not need? I just got the pre-amp and was previously running everything else in this chain without it.... I'd love to not use the M-Audio box if it's not necessary, but I thought it would be since laptop soundcards usually suck. Does the pre-amp handle that issue? If so, is the mixer still necessary (I'm assuming it might be at least as a monitor).

 

Thanks!

[Etienne Rambert]

 

"...Just so I understand, here is my gear: Dell Laptop Cool Edit Pro (Adobe Audition) M-Audio Audiophile USB (24/96) FMR Audio RNP Pre-amp Behringer Eurorack UB802 mixer Mic What do I need and not need? I just got the pre-amp and was previously running everything else in this chain without it.... I'd love to not use the M-Audio box if it's not necessary, but I thought it would be since laptop soundcards usually suck. Does the pre-amp handle that issue? If so, is the mixer still necessary (I'm assuming it might be at least as a monitor)."

 

 

We have the same d/a converter.

 

With your setup, if you want, YES. You could eliminate the M-Audio converter & mixer from the chain and still make good recordings.

 

BUT...do you want to eliminate them? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Windows will do 44.1 I think. Your converter can do 96. I don't know how high your software will go.

 

44.1 is just fine for me.

 

ALSO - that interface as you know is not full-duplex w/o the ASIO drivers.

 

ALSO - as you note - you need a monitoring source. The mixer gives you that. But if you're having problems with the chain, the good news is you can eliminate two of the devices, or you can eliminate just one. See which works best for you.

[Rickkkk]

 

I would like to start recording on to a laptop and have done some basic research however, I now have more questions than I did before.   Heres a few to begin with:   1. I have a powered PA/mixer combo. Is this best to record through, all a plain mixer etc. 2. It seems I need some sort of

[danimal99]

 

If you are talking about what type of D/A converter to buy, USB is not the best medium for recording digital audio. It's slow. It's sometimes hard to install via Windows. The good thing about USB is that it's truly universal. It's everywhere. Firewire isn't. But it's a lot faster and more stable than USB.

 

 

These aren't entirely true. First of all, USB is pretty ubiquitous nowadays, and USB2.0 is practically the same speed as FireWire, as far as this is concerned. And like I said earlier, I've been using a Line6 GuitarPort for a while, which was designed as a USB 1.1 device, and it easily handles recording and playback, virtually lag-free, including any number of effects and filters being run on the computer in between. My setup is

guitar->GP->PC->GP->Home Theater system. When I want to jam on my strat or record something with my acoustic-electric to practice with, I almost never use my amp, I just plug it into the GuitarPort and switch the input on my home theater system. Maybe it's cheesy, I dunno, but it works like a champ.

 

Plus you get all the benefits of the virtual hardware in the software- noise gate, reverb, etc.

 

At the very least, one could order this or a similar box from a retailer like samedaymusic that has a generous return policy that allows you to change your mind within a month or two.

[Etienne Rambert]

I only brought essential stuff with me when I left the States in November. One thing I didn't bring was a D/A converter. It's not essential for making good recordings. I do fine without it.

 

You may be right about USB 2. It doesn't matter to me though. I don't need USB or Firewire to make recordings. That's my point. My 24/96 M-Audio Audiophile is USB2. Both my notebooks (Dell Inspiron 600 & Compaq M2010) accomodate USB2.

 

Doesn't matter, because I go straight into the notebook from the pre-amp. One might be preferable to the other. But neither one is essential for making good recordings with a laptop.

 

Now if you want to go above 320 Kbps/44.1hz - the USB versus Firewire debate might be useful to follow.

 

I don't follow it. Because 44.1 hz 320 kbps is much better than I need. It's all my software will do anyway.

 

To prove my point, here is an acoustic guitar recording with orchestration that I made about 3 months ago in my hotel room.

 

On the acoustic parts, I went straight from the JoeMeek Pre-Amp into the notebook computer. On the orchestration, I bypassed JoeMeek completely and went straight into the laptop from a Yamaha synth module. No pre-amp or compression necessary.

 

3 acoustic guitar tracks using good old 2 track SoundForge 8.0.

 

A. Mic to JoeMeek.

B. JoeMeek to Dell.

C. Recorded in SoundForge.

 

Warning - I normalized it to play on bar CD sound systems. It's pretty loud.

[sumpm1]

I haven't read every post in this thread. I think the rig you want to buy would depend on how many instruments/mics you are trying to record at once, how high quality/expense of gear, how serious you are. If you have no experience using a DAW on a PC, then you could get something very cheap from GC with 2 ins and try Reaper for a recording app.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-UCONTROL-UCA202-USBAudio-Interface?sku=702540

http://reaper.fm/download.php

 

But if you are experienced and have some mics or are looking for some decent ones, then get ALOT of hardware for only $400 with the Alesis io26. It has 8 analog ins, with 8 preamps. So you could mic a drum set if you wanted.

 

FIREWIRE: You asked if Firewire made the sound better. The "Firewire" is comparable to a much faster version of "USB," USB just never had such a cool name. Firewire allows you to have ONE small chord connect all 8 or more analog inputs on the io26 into your recording program; you save on buying chords, and no wire mess, one wire unplug entire interface from laptop.

[Etienne Rambert]

For a plain vanilla example of direct laptop recording, without any orchestration or mixing FX, a few weeks ago, I posted a blind tonewoods listening test.

 

3 different acoustics, each with entirely different tonewoods, recorded using the same strings, same mic, same pre-amp & same direct Mic/Line INPUT on a Compaq Notebook in Soundforge 8.0

 

This will give you a pre-FX example of acoustic recording quality that you can easily achieve on a laptop.

 

Simple chain. No D/A converter. No docking station. Guitars were unamplified, recorded with mic.

A. Rode NT-1 condensor Mic INTO

B. JoeMeek VC-3 pre-amp/compressor

(Same settings for each guitar) INTO

C. Mic/Line Inpurt on Compaq M2010 US Notebook,

2005 vintage.

 

Broken up for convenience:

by Rickkkk:First of all, most laptops come with an integrated soundcard that has a line-in jack capable of accomodating a stereo mini-plug. It's usually located beside that jack you plug your headphones or speakers into. All you really need then is a Y-adapter cable with the stereo mini-plug on one end (plugs into the laptop) and 2 RCA plugs on the other end (plugs into your PA's recording output). If your PA has different jacks for recording output, then just buy the appropriate cable (Radio Shack, Circuit City ...)...

 

 

Record in mono. You won't need the Y adapter cable. I don't use 'em.

 

 

"...**** CAVEAT **** Beware laptops that have a single combined "line-in" and "mic" jack. In my experience, these are usually calibrated to function with computer-grade microphones and I have yet to succeed in getting a proper direct-line recording done using them. The only way around this, other than the solution I will talk about in the next paragraph, is to see if the laptop can be equipped with an appropriate docking station / port-replicator that has a proper "line-in" jack. This workaround functioned for me on my previous laptop (an IBM ThinkPad T43p)."

 

____

 

I think most people can do just fine with that mic/line IN. A docking station is not essential for me. I'm a composer & performer. I try very hard to keep this stuff simple. Plus I travel a lot. Luggage limits being what they are - docking stations don't fit into my life.

 

I don't enjoy recording. But I do a lot of it. I approach it from an artist's POV. I'm not an engineer. If I need an engineer, I hire one.

 

Here's a standard from my lounge set. Straight MONO - slapback echo, recorded 1 month ago. VX & guitar helped along by JoeMeek. The others courtesy of Yamaha synth modules & I play with a Roland controller. "Oh Lonesome Me".

 

Stereo:

 

a fingerpicking number w/orchestration. One side I'm playing my Maple dragon. One side I'm playing a 1972 Guild D-25.

 

I went direct from JoeMeek pre-amp into the mic/line Input on my Compaq notebook. Recorded in Wavelab about 2 months ago.

 

All of these straight into the notebook Mic/Line Input. Maybe they're not pristine enough for engineers. But they're just fine for what I do.

[kwakatak]

Marcellis is pretty much on the money. The line-in/mic jack on the PC is just fine. Here's my rig:

 

Shure PG-57 microphone (though I'd like to upgrade to a pair of SM-81's)

Behringer UB1202 mixer

Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop

Sounforge Audacity (freeware) or Reaper (shareware)

 

When recording with my electric I like to do my monitoring via headphones plugged into the PC which in turn is running Reaper. I've done this with my acoustic though I find the whole concept of listening to yourself in realtime with the headphones as a distraction. Reaper is able to run effects in realtime as long as you can get the I/O settings dialed in. With an acoustic I use a single reverb effect which seems to be easier for the PC to manage than what I use for my electric. That plugin is called Freeamp 2 and is basically a modeler which simulates a full effects chain down to the different type of amplifiers you can use.

 

 

Previously I've just plugged the headphones into the mixer, plugged the mic in to the mixer via the XLR input, ran a cord from the left main channel (1/4" output) to the PC's line-in/mic port (1/8") through the use of an adaptor. The downsides to this is that you have to dial your gain/outputs to compensate for a lot of hiss and you're only sending through a mono signal, but there are ways around that once you become familiar with how your recording/editing/mixing software works. In that case, I've mostly used Audacity which is pretty simple and straightforward to use. Only lately have I used Reaper, but lately I'm finding that it's best to use Audacity for the raw track editing and Reaper for the mixing/effect application in post production (not while you're playing). The results aren't half bad - though I don't know if they'd what you'd consider to be CD quality.

[Dan Hall]

We have the same d/a converter. With your setup, if you want, YES. You could eliminate the M-Audio converter & mixer from the chain and still make good recordings. BUT...do you want to eliminate them? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Windows will do 44.1 I think. Your converter can do 96. I don't know how high your software will go. 44.1 is just fine for me. ALSO - that interface as you know is not full-duplex w/o the ASIO drivers. ALSO - as you note - you need a monitoring source. The mixer gives you that. But if you're having problems with the chain, the good news is you can eliminate two of the devices, or you can eliminate just one. See which works best for you.

Correct me while your at it but 96 doesn't do much good except during the mixing stage because none of the media (mp3,wav.) etc support over 44.

[Etienne Rambert]

I think you're right. But I'm no recording expert.

 

I never go over 44.1. A friend of mine, a very good guitarist in Dallas keeps singing the praises of 48 & 96 to me. And his recordings are excellent. There are a few of them on my website. He's also bought about $10K or 15K worth of acoustic guitars too.

 

I'm cheap.

 

You can do this stuff cheap. Or you can do it expensively. I see a point of diminishing returns above 44.1. I agree with you. Most people don't need 96. You can can make good, CD quality recordings w/o going above 44.1.

 

I have the benefit of multi-tracking most of my arrangements in MIDI. For musicians who don't have that benefit, the issue of monitoring tracks you've already recorded is important.

 

I'd be interested to know how other acoustic musicians monitor their recorded tracks when recording new ones, without a full-duplex D/A converter.

 

One obvious but awkward way is to record the first track. Put it on a CD. Put the CD in a CD player and play it back. Record the new track in the laptop. Then mix the two tracks. Put them on CD. Put them in a CD player, record a new track...and so on.

 

With MIDI, I don't need to do all that. When recording multiple acoustic guitar tracks, I don't need to monitor the acoustic guitar tracks I've recorded because I can play along with the MIDI arrangement.

[MattSkibaIsGOD]

I have had great (IMO) results just plugging a mic into my soundcard and recording with Audacity. Your results may vary.

[Rickkkk]

I'd be interested to know how other acoustic musicians monitor their recorded tracks when recording new ones, without a full-duplex D/A converter. One obvious but awkward way is to record the first track. Put it on a CD. Put the CD in a CD player and play it back. Record the new track in the laptop. Then mix the two tracks. Put them on CD. Put them in a CD player, record a new track...and so on. With MIDI, I don't need to do all that. When recording multiple acoustic guitar tracks, I don't need to monitor the acoustic guitar tracks I've recorded because I can play along with the MIDI arrangement.

 

Hey Marcellis ... My 2 cents:

 

If you're trying to do this as simply as possible, and only ever record yourself, one track at a time, I've very succesfully monitored previously recorded tracks (up to 9) in real time while laying down a new one simply through the laptop's own soundcard output, into which I've plugged earphones, while recording the current track through the laptop's line-in jack. Now, I may have had (never checked) full-duplex D/A converters in my current and previous laptops - if so, I guess this doesn't really answer your question.

 

I use Adobe Audition 2.0 - no worries so far. Like I said in a previous post, the only REAL need I've had for my M-Audio Firewire 1814 so far is the simultaneous digitizing of 4 analog cassette tracks.

 

Cheers !

[Etienne Rambert]

That's a new one on me Rickkkk. I know Adobe Audition has ASIO drivers. If your soundchip accomodates them, that gives you full duplex. The software I'm using doesn't have ASIO except for Cubase. But as I said, I don't really need full duplex for what I do. I have MIDI.

[Rickkkk]

Hey again Marcellis ..

 

Well that's it then. I know that when I install Audition, it does an ASIO compatibility check on my laptop and has always returned a "fully compatible" status.

 

As for MIDI, I am completely ignorant of all things MIDI ... which is a shame, since several pieces of hardware (instruments, gear) I have support it ... Maybe one day ...

 

Cheers !