Grover Sta-Tite Tuners

[Etienne Rambert]

I took the advice of some forumites and ordered some Grover Sta-Tite tuners for my new, new cutaway jumbo slot head.

 

I'm not used to them yet. There seems to be a lot of play in these tuners. I can turn them for perhaps 25-30 degrees and nothing happens. A few degrees more, and the string moves several cents above the pitch I'm trying to reach.

 

Strings are only two days old. But would that would make a difference in the action of the tuning heads? Do they always have a lot of play in them?

 

By "play", I mean you turn the tuner and nothing happens. Then a slight turn more and it tightens the string too much. I'm used to turning the tuner and hearing the sound change at the same time. I don't have that kind of control on the Sta-Tites.

 

Can I adjust these things?

 

BTW, I use a pretty good Seiko electronic tuner.

[JasmineTea]

Got a pic this type of tuner?

 

The link did'nt work for me.

[Etienne Rambert]

Link should work now.

 

Here is a picture of one of them.

 

 

Here is a picture I took with my cell phone of the set that is on my guitar.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Marcellis, some of the Grovers (Rotomatics) have a screw in the middle of the knob (can't tell if yours do). That not only holds the knob on, it sets a little preload in the worm and cog gear - might help take some of the play out. If so tighten very small amounts.

[Etienne Rambert]

 

FK: some of the Grovers (Rotomatics) have a screw in the middle of the knob (can't tell if yours do). That not only holds the knob on, it sets a little preload in the worm and cog gear - might help take some of the play out. If so tighten very small amounts."

 

 

Got it!

 

Thanks FK. Mine does have a screw there. So I'll tighten them.

 

I probably should have figured that out myself. But I'd rather let

someone who knows what he's doing do the job.

[bjorn-fjord]

I use Sta-Tites almost exclusively and I've never had any problems with excessive play in the gearing. I've compared them side-by-side with Waverly's and have found them to be very similar in quality.

 

The only other thing I could suggest is maybe the post holes are a little tight from lacquer. A little sand-paper wrapped around a chopstick should take care of that.

[Etienne Rambert]

B.B.:"The only other thing I could suggest is maybe the post holes are a little tight from lacquer. A little sand-paper wrapped around a chopstick should take care of that."

 

That makes sense. I hope it doesn't come to that. Have you ever experienced that much play in Sta-Tites?

 

I had Schallers M-6's on before.

 

 

They were not really designed for slot heads. I wasn't happy with them because I noticed some slippage. It was uniform and predictable across all six strings. Each string would drop a few cents in pitch after sitting awhile.

 

But there was never any play in the action of the Schaller tuners. I turned the knob - I heard the corresponding string tightening. It was a predictable process, the way tuners should operate. That's not true of the Grover. I turn the knob - sometimes, nothing happens. Sometimes, it tightens the string too much. It's not uniform or predictable.

 

I hope it's just a matter of tightening the screws or sanding out the post holes. I hope this isn't the beginning of part II of the Curse of the Five-Toed Dragon.

[JasmineTea]

What about the nut grooves? Could it be the string is binding in the nut grooves? Make sure they are sized right for the strings (not too small or the strings could bind) AND put a little pencile graphite in the grooves, under the strings.

 

I put a little pencile graphite from a No2 pencile in the grooves every so often, keeps them from binding. I was at a guitar shop recently and saw some special oil for lubing the nut. However, I'm leary of using oil after having tried it. It killed a new set of strings immediatly. Maybe there's something special about the oil at the shop.

[Etienne Rambert]

UPDATE: I tried to tighten the screws, as FK suggested.

 

They were all tightened to the max. BUT that might have been the problem.

I started loosening them. I turned each one 20-30 degrees to the left. This improved the response a great deal. Now I wind the tuner - I hear the string responding. The 6th string still isn't quite right.

 

I don't understand why - but loosening the screws gave the tuners a tighter tuning response. I hope that was the problem. If not - the Schallers are going back on until I can order some Gotohs. The Grovers as installed were unacceptable.

[Freeman Keller]

 

UPDATE: I don't understand why - but loosening the screws gave the tuners a tighter tuning response. I hope that was the problem. If not - the Schallers are going back on until I can order some Gotohs. The Grovers as installed were unacceptable.

 

 

 

I think it has something to do with how one gear is preloaded against the other and the tightness of the screw moves one slightly with respect to another. All I know is that I had that problem long ago with my old Martin which had Grovers and an instructor took a little screwdriver from his case (he said "I always carry this") and gave them a tiny tweek - presto, no more slippage. I guess I assumed he tightened them but it could have been the other way. Hope it works

 

Since then I've replaced the Grovers on the old Martie with Gotohs, altho I do have Grovers like yours on both my slotheads, and mini Grovers on the 12 string.

[Etienne Rambert]

B.B.:"The only other thing I could suggest is maybe the post holes are a little tight from lacquer. A little sand-paper wrapped around a chopstick should take care of that."

 

Update to the update: I just detuned & tuned again and still had a problem. But it was less of a problem than before.

 

Originally, I had put on Schallers like these black ones:

 

 

They weren't really designed for a slothead. But they worked. I thought there was slippage over time. But there was never any problem with tuning response. I turned the knobs. The strings responded predictably.

 

That's not true with these Grovers. There is still so much play that it makes tuning unpredictable. I turn it 30 degrees - no response. 5 degrees more wham! I'm 10 cents above 440.

 

I'm wondering if the original luthier simply fitted the interior slots (no lacquer), for the shorter pole length Schallers. That would make those slots too shallow for the Grovers. If the second luthier just screwed the Grovers in tight until the posts jammed against the wood, it might create play & tension in the tuners.

 

I definitely hear wood noise during tuning. But I don't know. It may be part II of the Curse of the Five-Toed Dragon.

 

JT: "What about the nut grooves? Could it be the string is binding in the nut grooves? "

 

Jasmine Tea - what are the "nut grooves"?

It could be the problem. I don't know what they are though.

---

Ah...You mean where the string fits into the groove. Sorry. I'm stupid about this stuff.

 

Yes. It could be. He put in a new nut. I know that. And it made the action a little higher. He just lowered the action. But the tuning problem has remained.

[Freeman Keller]

Marcellis, as I said, I did use Grovers on my slothead, I think the same ones that you have (the appear in my avatar)

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Grover_18:1_Sta-Tite_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar_Machines.html

 

One thing I remember is that the holes had to be re-reamed after I finished the guitar - there was a lot of lacquer inside. The inner holes are not bushed but the end of the post is just in a hole in the wood - you could have some binding there. JT's idea of wrapping some sandpaper around a chop stick might be the solution, or the hole might have to be drilled deeper.

[bjorn-fjord]

It's possible that the posts are bottoming out in the holes if they weren't drilled deep enough. A 1/4" drill bit is the size you need. If you're going to try this yourself wrap a piece of tape around the drill bit as a depth guide because you don't want to go too far...

[Etienne Rambert]

Y'all have given superb advice, as usual. I'm taking it back to get those interior holes reamed out a bit more. That seems like the most likely problem. If the problem were the nut grooves, it probably would not occur uniformly on all six strings. Some nut grooves would stick. Others wouldn't, unless all the nut grooves were ill-fitted in the same way.

 

I ain't doing it myself. I'm DIY with MIDI & Digital Audio. Luthiering is something I leave to people who know what they're doing. There is damned little room for error.