DIfference in R and M in the EPiphone Masterbuilt.

//()() · August 1, 2007

What is the difference?

//()() · August 1, 2007

OKay.. I know now.

but which is better, Mahagony or Rosewood?

Mikeo · August 1, 2007

Doesn't the R stand for rosewood and the M, mahonagny

if that is the case, they will have very different tones, even with the same size and shape of the body.

Rosewood has a crisper top end (nad a bigger bottom end for the most part) and mahogany does not. It not that one is better over the other, it's the charactistics if the wood.

I have acoustics that us both woods.

I love my Rosewood Martins, but own a J45 that has a mahogany back and sides, it's a great guitar.

Mikeo · August 1, 2007

neither one is better over the other, but just listening side by side, more folks will like rosewood over the mahogany.

moctzal · August 1, 2007

Depends on who you ask. I prefer Mahogany along with many others, and many others prefer Rosewood. There isn't really a "better."

Mahogany has a "woodier" tone and Rosewood is more articulate, has slightly more zing in the top end, and a little bit more oomph in the low end in comparison to Mahog. More of a growling quality in Rosewood's bass.

//()() · August 2, 2007

so you say more people will like the tone of rosewood?

why is that?

does it sound fuller?

if you've heard this video. this is the tone I'm going for..

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GABuDn5EkWM

DonK · August 2, 2007

You're killing me...the guitar tones in those two videos couldn't be more different, and probably have at least as much to do with the quality of both the respective players and the guitars as whatever tonewoods are involved.

Andy McKee is playing an intricately finger-picked piece on a Lowden (using a partial capo to give it an unusual tuning); the other guy is doing some thrash strumming on what looks like a no-name instrument (though it could be a Takamine).

And you're worried about rosewood versus mahogany...

guit30 · August 2, 2007

What does these utubes have to do with m and r? The first guy is a very good picker who likes to tap, no info about guitar.

The second guy is playing a tak and it sounds well, imo bad

Jim

//()() · August 2, 2007

Okay.

{censored} this place.

the first two guys helped out.

and all you two can do is complain about the music?

{censored} you then!

WHich would sound fuller and have clarity?

ALMOST LIKE A REALLY THICK HIGH GAIN AMP YOU BASTARD!

kwakatak · August 2, 2007

Between your two choices, I'd say go with the "R" version.

That being said, for that type of music you're probably better off going with a mini-jumbo, slope-shouldered dread, grand auditorium or a grand OM. If you're looking at the Epiphone Masterbilts I'd take a look at the AJ-500R.

DonK · August 2, 2007

Okay.

{censored} this place.

the first two guys helped out.

and all you two can do is complain about the music?

{censored} you then!

WHich would sound fuller and have clarity?

ALMOST LIKE A REALLY THICK HIGH GAIN AMP YOU BASTARD!

Hey jerk, I'm not complaining about the music, I happened to like both pieces. On the other hand, the videos you linked are akin to posting links to Mozart's Requiem and Pantera's Cemetary Gates and asking, "how do I get that tone; rosewood or mahogany?", LOL.

moctzal · August 2, 2007

Okay.

{censored} this place.

the first two guys helped out.

and all you two can do is complain about the music?

{censored} you then!

WHich would sound fuller and have clarity?

ALMOST LIKE A REALLY THICK HIGH GAIN AMP YOU BASTARD!

Don't get upset man...it's just a forum...

And that sort of language doesn't fly on this forum, you'll probably be ignored by most posters if that's the way you write.

Your examples are two very different sounds and guitars. Also, the audio quality is very poor in the second clip. In the first clip it looks like Andy is playing a jumbo and I have no idea what the back and sides are made of. It very well could be maple. There are so many factors in the way that an acoustic guitar sounds. Also Andy's touch seems to have much to do with his tone. The way he plays is unconventional and produces his sound as much as the guitar does. His tone, is at least partially, in his fingers.

Also his strings could be a factor. His website says he's playing a guitar made by Andrew White (luthier) in West Virginia. I don't know if that's the same guitar. He uses Dean Markely Alchemy Gold/Bronze med. guage.

What made you decide on a rosewood or mahogany guitar?

Body size/construction imo are bigger factors on a guitar's tone. There are many things that change an acoustic's tone (even just different strings can color your guitar's sound significantly).

On another note, Gibson's AJ (advanced jumbo) is not a conventional jumbo.

//()() · August 2, 2007

Alright thanks!

Well, for more rock songwriting oriented stuff. such as that Takamine video..

would a dread or jumbo be better?

I think I'll go with rosewood.

but now the question is dread or jumbo.

I mean yeah, I want it to sound good for fingerpicking stuff also.

but I like that growly mid range - which one of you said was a quality of the rosewood. which would sustain better like in the andy mckee video.

any ideas?

Mikeo · August 2, 2007

This is my fav out of the bunch

http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=223&CollectionID=15

my second choose

http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=225&CollectionID=15

//()() · August 2, 2007

well.

if it was a choice between a M or R dread. and an R jumbo.

what would it be?

moctzal · August 2, 2007

I personally think that jumbos handle fingerpicking a bit better than dreads do.

But remember that there are plenty of pros getting great fingerpicking tone out of dreads, it's just a general sort of thought.

For quintessential struming and singing/songwriting, rosewood dreads seem to be the standard.

I assume your budget is around the $750 mark because you're considering Masterbilts. I suggest you go out and play a bunch of guitar in your style. Pick 3-5 songs that cover the style(s) you like and spend a day playing guitars to find the one you like. Try Mahogany, Rosewood, Koa, Maple all of them! Even Cedar tops! I love cedar tops. My worst fear (in guitar shopping) is not finding that special guitar because I was unwilling to pick it up because I had pre-determined what materials it ought to be made out of. Keep an open mind.

That all being said, I suggest for jumbos at your price point that you find a Guild GAD JF-30 and JF-48. For dreads and OMs try out some more Guild GADs, Epi Masterbilts, Martin's -15 series and Larrivees (a slight step up from your price but still under $1000). The Larrivees get rave reviews and are extremely popular among guitar players. Also I suggest trying some Taylors (although they are mostly out of that price range) to hear the Grand Concert(GC), Grand Auditorium(GA) and Grand Symphony(GS) sizes.

There are tons of factors into a guitar's sound, not just tonewoods.

Also for jumbos I forgot to mention Parkwood. Guitar Center proprietary brand. They were going for $350 a while back. All solid wood, sounds like a hell of a deal. I live in Canada, or else I would have scooped one up.

There's alot to try and I tried a bunch from Larrivees to Martins to Yamahas to Gibsons. I ended up with a 000 sized Cedar/Mahogany because I just liked the way it sounded when I played it. That's the important part. Guitars react to players differently and sound different as a result.

Go out, try a bunch and let your ears decide. There were many guitars that were "better" than mine in terms of materials/prices but I liked it the most. Thats what matters.

PS

Don and Kwak are cool guys, they didn't mean anything bad by their posts. Their advice in this forum is often very good. They also have much more and better gear than I do...I'm jealous of DonK's sig...

kwakatak · August 2, 2007

Bear in mind that out of the entire Masterbilt line I've only played the EF-500R (and that sucker was loud for an OM-sized guitar) but I gotta say that the idea of the AJ-500R calls to me more than a dread - no matter how much GAS I may have for a $2600 Martin HD-35 (that I can't afford by a longshot!)

moctzal · August 2, 2007

If you like growly mid-range I highly suggest a Larrivee OM-03r.

//()() · August 2, 2007

THIS IS THE TONE I WANT!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7W75G4RYh78

not the best songs..

but thats the type of acoustic I'm down with.

especially the last one.

kwakatak · August 2, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrQdOWRC7Ww

not the best songs..

but thats the type of acoustic I'm down with.

especially the last one.

Wow - I won't comment on the tone but that kid nailed the vocals! In the end, when you're singing/strumming it's not really about the guitar really.

Bernie P. · August 2, 2007

My vote would be for either an AJ or EF in rose.If you want to play high up on the neck the EF500RCCE would be an excellent choice with the cutaway design plus its 1 3/4 nut-low profile is great for fingerstyle.Check out the "My head hurts" thread for more good info on these Masterbilts.

//()() · August 2, 2007

^ would the AJ still get a thick ringing sound like this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W75G4RYh78

I can only choose from an AJ500R, DR500R, and DR500M

which one would get closest to that sound?

Bernie P. · August 2, 2007

Tough call comparing to a vid but yes they can indeed nail a thick ringing sound particularly the two with cedar tops/rose b&s.The AJ RC 12 fret a bit moreso but you may not like the thick V neck on that one or the lack of access to the higher frets.Also the cedar tends to diminish the highs a bit compared to spruce but on the other hand it adds some warmth.If at all possible try them just to be sure which ones what you're looking for.

DenverDave · August 2, 2007

^ would the AJ still get a thick ringing sound like this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W75G4RYh78

I can only choose from an AJ500R, DR500R, and DR500M

which one would get closest to that sound?

Probably either of the dreads (DR500M or R) will get you there. Listening to a amplified acoustic is somewhat deceiving because the pickup system and EQ have a lot to do with the sound. I own a DR500M, which is a great sounding and playing guitar. It's for sale (financial reasons) if you are interested. I was impressed with the whole line when I bought mine but you are probably going to get closer to your tone with a DR model....

Sheik Yerbouti · August 2, 2007

Probably either of the dreads (DR500M or R) will get you there. Listening to a amplified acoustic is somewhat deceiving because the pickup system and EQ have a lot to do with the sound. I own a DR500M, which is a great sounding and playing guitar. It's for sale (financial reasons) if you are interested. I was impressed with the whole line when I bought mine but you are probably going to get closer to your tone with a DR model....

I'm interested. I'll PM you.

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