If replacing a saddle with bone would you do the nut too?

[johnkline]

I'm considering taking out the plastic saddle on my yamaha and trying out a bone saddle, but I was wondering if I should do the nut also since it's plastic too? It's a beater but I just want to try it out as an experiment...

What's an average price from a luthier to install a nut and saddle for parts and labor?

[Queequeg]

Two different animals, johnkline.

Lots of us here will do a saddle ourselves. Pretty easy and less than an hour, start to finish. But if you take it to a shop for a setup expect to pay between $60-$100. Do-it-yourself for about 25 bucks.

The nut is a bit more complicated and most of us wouldn't attempt that ourselves. It requires specialty files and some experience.

The main thing is, you just might notice an improvement in the sound of your guitar if you swap out your saddle. Unless there is something structurally wrong with the nut, you won't know the difference, except to your pocketbook.

[Tony Burns]

The saddle is where the most change in sound occurs - if your doing this your self the nut is harder to replace - if your having a luthier or set up person do this Id have the nut as well as the saddle replaced- probably not that much more money ( ask ), as a whole both are worth being done.

[babablowfish]

Although it cost more to replace and didn't make as much of a difference, when I had a bone nut installed in my Yamaha FG-340 (months after I had had the saddle changed to bone) there was a definite improvement. It was worth it for me although I can't say whether it will be worth it to you with a beater.

 

A cheap way to improve tone and sustain in a Yamaha is to put in brass bridge pins. Since it is a beater, you shouldn't mind getting some ugly D'Andrea brass pins. They really pack a wallop. I have them in my Yamaha beater which still has the plastic nut and saddle. The difference the brass pins made was major.

 

Here's a link for the pins at Elderly: http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/TPIN-BRASS.htm

[guitarist21]

I agree with Queg. I'd change a saddle myself but not a nut. I'd get a pro to change the nut.

 

Ellen

[guit30]

I'd try the saddle 1st, never tried the fancy bridge pins

Jim

[walfordr]

Only you will notice the difference.

[dhoenisch]

Just to add my two cents, I always change the saddle to bone. Such a HUGE improvement on sound. It woke up my Squier acoustic big time. I typically won't replace the nut since it really only makes a minor difference on the open strings. On fretted strings, it doesn't matter what you use for a nut, the sound starts at the fret. Anyhow, the only time I use bone for a nut is if I need to replace the nut to begin with. If I have to replace the nut, I always use bone. I figure that if I'm going to do the work of making a new nut, I may as well use good material. Plus, bone material looks really nice when buffed out. It has such a nice shine, it looks like it has a few coats of finish on it.

 

Dan

[babablowfish]

 

I typically won't replace the nut since it really only makes a minor difference on the open strings. On fretted strings, it doesn't matter what you use for a nut, the sound starts at the fret. Dan

 

 

 

Many people mistakenly believe that the nut has no impact on fretted strings. About a year ago we had a poster - octavedoctor who gave us a wonderful tutorial on the physics involved and he showed us that the nut definitely does impact tone, whether the strings are fretted or not. It was because of his imput that I had a bone nut installed on my Yammie. I always play with a capo and it still makes a difference.

[ihateyouguys]

 

Only you will notice the difference.

 

 

Which is true of 99% of the things that are argued over on musician bulletin boards.

[Treborklow]

Whenever I have replaced a saddle with bone, it's brighten the guitar so much that I never have bothered with replacing the nut. In some cases, Tusq sounds more even and nicer than bone, which can make some guitars too bright. A lot depends on personal taste and strings used as well.

[whit townsend]

Only if the nut is not cut well and needs replacing would I do so.

[dhoenisch]

 

Many people mistakenly believe that the nut has no impact on fretted strings. About a year ago we had a poster - octavedoctor who gave us a wonderful tutorial on the physics involved and he showed us that the nut definitely does impact tone, whether the strings are fretted or not. It was because of his imput that I had a bone nut installed on my Yammie. I always play with a capo and it still makes a difference.

 

 

I'm going to have to search for that. I'd be interested in reading it. I guess that since I've only replaced the nut on cheaper guitars, I never noticed the difference. Maybe, when I get my Martin that I am saving up for, I'll play it a while with the Corian nut, and replace it with Bone to see if I can hear the difference. Actually, since I am adding a bone nut to my harmony, which is the same model my sister has, I'll compare the two.

 

Dan

[OldGuitarPlayer]

I'm considering taking out the plastic saddle on my yamaha and trying out a bone saddle, but I was wondering if I should do the nut also since it's plastic too? It's a beater but I just want to try it out as an experiment... What's an average price from a luthier to install a nut and saddle for parts and labor?

 

I had my luthier/tech guy make me a nice bone compensated saddle and bone nut for my old Yamaha FG-331. It cost me $85 bucks ($50 for the nut & $35 for the saddle). I needed a new nut anyway since the old one "disintigrated" so I opted for a custom made bone one. The guitar sounds great

 

OGP

[babablowfish]

 

I'm going to have to search for that. I'd be interested in reading it. I guess that since I've only replaced the nut on cheaper guitars, I never noticed the difference. Maybe, when I get my Martin that I am saving up for, I'll play it a while with the Corian nut, and replace it with Bone to see if I can hear the difference. Actually, since I am adding a bone nut to my harmony, which is the same model my sister has, I'll compare the two. Dan

 

 

Here is the link. Do yourself a favor and read the whole thread.

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1238790

[kwakatak]

No, the work is too specialized for someone as mechanically disinclined as I am.

[dhoenisch]

 

Do yourself a favor and read the whole thread.

 

 

Well, I'm sold. Thanks for sending me the link. Very interesting stuff. I think it's time to order some more bone nut material and get to work.

 

Dan

[babablowfish]

 

Well, I'm sold. Thanks for sending me the link. Very interesting stuff. I think it's time to order some more bone nut material and get to work. Dan

 

 

Please don't think I am recommending that you do it yourself - unless you have the special files and lots of know-how. I had it done by my luthier and I thought it was worth the expense.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

Please don't think I am recommending that you do it yourself - unless you have the special files and lots of know-how. I had it done by my luthier and I thought it was worth the expense.

 

I agree with Baba. The proper files to cut a bone nut alone cost well over $100. It's a lot easier to have a proffessional tech/luthier do it and typically he should have it ready for you the within the next day or two. As I mentioned in an earlier post it cost me a total of $85 to have my plastic nut and saddle replaced with bone ones on my old Yammie. The tech I use works out of the Folklore Center in my city and he has an apprentice or two working with him in the shop at all times. I wouldn't trust my set-ups and repair work to anyone else

 

Regards,

 

OGP

[babablowfish]

I agree with Baba. The proper files to cut a bone nut alone cost well over $100. It's a lot easier to have a proffessional tech/luthier do it and typically he should have it ready for you the within the next day or two. As I mentioned in an earlier post it cost me a total of $85 to have my plastic nut and saddle replaced with bone ones on my old Yammie. The tech I use works out of the Folklore Center in my city and he has an apprentice or two working with him in the shop at all times. I wouldn't trust my set-ups and repair work to anyone else Regards, OGP

 

As I have mentioned before, I had the pleasure of playing an FG-331 once and was really impressed by the volume, tone and sustain produced by that little thing. It must sound fantastic with a bone nut and saddle.

[Danocoustic]

I agree with Baba. The proper files to cut a bone nut alone cost well over $100. It's a lot easier to have a proffessional tech/luthier do it and typically he should have it ready for you the within the next day or two. As I mentioned in an earlier post it cost me a total of $85 to have my plastic nut and saddle replaced with bone ones on my old Yammie. The tech I use works out of the Folklore Center in my city and he has an apprentice or two working with him in the shop at all times. I wouldn't trust my set-ups and repair work to anyone else Regards, OGP

You don't have to have dedicated nut-slotting files to do it. A modified X-Acto kife blade (cut saw teeth into it) and a set of torch-tip cleaners to slot it, along with any old flat file and some sandpaper to shape it, and a lot of patience, will do the job.

 

Not very practical, but if you're into DIY, good results can be achieved with simple tools.

[garthman]

I don't know what the situation is in the US but, about 6 months ago, I was astonished to find a nice little set of needle files in my local hardware shop (Focus DIY for UK forumites) selling for

[dhoenisch]

 

Please don't think I am recommending that you do it yourself - unless you have the special files and lots of know-how. I had it done by my luthier and I thought it was worth the expense.

 

 

I've made plenty of bone nuts before with my set of needle files, and some sand paper, and those little model train track cutting saws. I don't yet have a set of the fancy pants nut slotting files, so it takes longer to make one, but what I have works just fine. I made a mandolin nut once, which I felt was much harder to do than a guitar nut.

 

Dan

[Danocoustic]

I applaud the DIY spirit of the last two posts

[Freeman Keller]

 

I made a mandolin nut once, which I felt was much harder to do than a guitar nut. Dan

 

 

Try a 12 string. Then try compensating the saddle. I've got about 6 hours in both the nut and the saddle on mine. The mando was easy by comparison.

 

And I won't tell the story of making the nut for the classical. Because the strings on a classical are the same centers (on a steel string they are usually the same distance between string) I carefully located the high and low E, divided the distance between by 6, started cutting notches, and when I was done realized that I had made a very nice nut for a seven string guitar.

 

Oh, darn, I just told the story.