Members Dave Curtis Posted March 17, 2005 Members Posted March 17, 2005 Can someone tell me the difference between these two systems? Which one is better and why? Thanks
Members woody b Posted March 17, 2005 Members Posted March 17, 2005 The Expression System is Taylor's own pickup system. It's the only system you can get factory installed in a new Taylor. I had one and it gave me nothing but trouble. It's very sensitive to any kind of electrical interference, such as light dimmers or even blenders(in bars). It sounds great(when it works) at lower volume levels when played lightly but at higher volume levels or when played with a heavier attack it sounds very magnetic and the unwound strings sound different than the rest. It uses 2 AA batteries instead of a 9v battery like most active pickups and battery life is very short, 20 hours or less compared to 500 hours with most other pickup systems. The batterys don't fit right in the battery compartment so Taylor wraps part of a post-it note around them. Alot of people have had problems with the batteries leaking acid also. Mine quit working twice in 6 months, once during a gig, and had to be replaced under warranty. I sold my ES equipped 710CE for a loss and was glad to be rid of it. Mine was built in August 2003 so it wasn't one of the first ones built. Some people claim the problems are fixed but a friend of mine(a Taylor Dealer)says they still give alot of trouble.
Members guit30 Posted March 18, 2005 Members Posted March 18, 2005 Taylor should give you an option if you want this junky system, especially the low end espression blue on 110s and 200 series, Fishman sounds loads betterJim
Members WilsonMak Posted March 18, 2005 Members Posted March 18, 2005 I have a 414rce with the ES system. I used it only five times. The fifth time it died.
Members Mac_C Posted March 18, 2005 Members Posted March 18, 2005 The Expression System BLOWS! I played a Fishman equipped Taylor next to an Expression equipped Taylor. The Fishman was far superior. Mac
Members RainsongDR1000 Posted March 19, 2005 Members Posted March 19, 2005 Get one w/ a Fishman and then run it through a Fishman Aura, it will be the best $300 you ever spent on amplifiying your acoustic. It will blow the ES away.
Members guit30 Posted March 19, 2005 Members Posted March 19, 2005 I totally agree, but you will have to buy a used Taylor, Taylor does not use Fishman systems anymore, just ExpressionJim
Members Kevin_FL Posted March 19, 2005 Members Posted March 19, 2005 I work on a lot of Taylors & the expresion system seems to be geared more towards fingerstyle players. I would get a Taylor with no electronics & install a Fishman Matrix. I did.
Members chatter Posted August 23, 2007 Members Posted August 23, 2007 Remember the Dean Markley ProMag? That crappy soundhole pickup that youstuck in your acoustic 20+ years ago? Well, Taylor has brought that sound back in their Expression System Pickups! I bought a 354ce 4 days ago with this ES system in it, and along with all the other paperwork/ warranty, came a dvd explaining and 'over-selling' this new pickup. I returned my 354ce a week later, after plugging it into a $12,000.00 sound system, and learning that this ES pickup made a damn good sounding Taylor 12 string sound like absolute crap.! Shame on you, Taylor! Cutting corners on quality again, just like you did when you used 'sub-standard' fret wire, that wears down after a couple years! I'm sold on the superiority of their guitars, but, trust me, stick with a 'Fishman' pickup in a Taylor...
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 23, 2007 Members Posted August 23, 2007 This discussion comes up over and over at what used to be the Taylor forum (AGF). It is my understanding that Taylor first used Fishman, then around 2003 their own system, the first gen ES. It had all the issues that Woody mentions. I think these all have the barndoor put I'm not sure. Taylor had an upgrade which I understand they will do for free (even if the guitar is not under warranty) - this one is supposed to be pretty good. New Taylors have the second gen ES with the tasteful little knobs by the neck heel and is supposed to be very good. The 1xx and 2xx have something called ES Blue - don't know anything about it. I have no personal experience with any of this, just parroting what I have read on AGF.
Members babablowfish Posted August 23, 2007 Members Posted August 23, 2007 Well, this should help me damp down my desire to buy a GS8! Thanks all!
Members Freeman Keller Posted August 23, 2007 Members Posted August 23, 2007 Well, this should help me damp down my desire to buy a GS8! Thanks all! I think all the GS's are the new ES which is much liked. Turn the GAS back up.
Members babablowfish Posted August 23, 2007 Members Posted August 23, 2007 I think all the GS's are the new ES which is much liked. Turn the GAS back up.
Members Sambora#2 Posted August 23, 2007 Members Posted August 23, 2007 This discussion comes up over and over at what used to be the Taylor forum (AGF). It is my understanding that Taylor first used Fishman, then around 2003 their own system, the first gen ES. It had all the issues that Woody mentions. I think these all have the barndoor put I'm not sure. Taylor had an upgrade which I understand they will do for free (even if the guitar is not under warranty) - this one is supposed to be pretty good.New Taylors have the second gen ES with the tasteful little knobs by the neck heel and is supposed to be very good. The 1xx and 2xx have something called ES Blue - don't know anything about it. I have no personal experience with any of this, just parroting what I have read on AGF. I have the 2nd Generation in my 810ce and it is superb. Sounds wonderfully natural, even at high volume. Probably the most batural sounding pickup system in an acoustic.
Members Fuzzbomb20 Posted August 24, 2007 Members Posted August 24, 2007 I have owned one taylor with ES and done two gigs with another borrowed taylor with ES. Both sounded ok at low volume levels but sound as bad or worse than a cheap magnetic pickup, anything but natural. Compared to the fisman blend they used to have in the higher end guitars it is a juge leap back. I would never buy a taylor with es. If I did I would remove it and use a different pickup system.
Members DonK Posted August 24, 2007 Members Posted August 24, 2007 I have a second generation ES in my 414 and think its the best acoustic amplification system I've heard, short of a great mic. I've got the Aura system in my D-16RGTE and am very impressed with it as well, though I still think the ES has the advantage on it.
Members guitarist21 Posted August 24, 2007 Members Posted August 24, 2007 I have a second generation ES in my 414 and think its the best acoustic amplification system I've heard, short of a great mic. The second generation is wayyyy better than the first. It seems to been one of those pickup systems that is perfectly matched to its guitars. Ellen
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