If I strung up a steel string with Nylons, would I....?

[MattSkibaIsGOD]

have to widen the nut slots? Or get a new nut entirely? I am thinking about stringing up my Cedar-topped Walden with D'Addario Folk Nylons. What kind of modification should I expect to have to do?

[Stackabones]

Don't do it. Gonna sound like crapola. Nylon strings won't drive a top braced for steel strings.

 

Get a nylon-string guitar.

[happy-man]

If you have some nylon strings, it's easy enough to look at without removing the old strings. Just loosen the strings on the guitar enough to pull them off the nut to the side. Then you can see if the nylon strings will at least fit in the slots.

 

I wouldn't think you'd get much sound out of the guitar if it's made for steel strings. Isn't the nut and action higher on a nylon string guitar? Seems like since the tension isn't as high, the strings vibrate more and therefore need to be higher off the frets to not buzz.

 

Scott O

[DonK]

 

Don't do it. Gonna sound like crapola. Nylon strings won't drive a top braced for steel strings. Get a nylon-string guitar.

 

 

+1. I've tried it, and it sounded horrible. If it's less string tension you're looking for, then try something like a set of Martin Silk & Steel .011's. Not exactly tone nirvana, but a heck of a lot better than nylons.

[eor]

yeah, the only sound you would get is ass. the nylons are buff enough for a steel string guitar.

 

a good compromise between steel and nylon would be the "silk and steel" strings, which are (barely) strong enough to move the top and thusly produce sound and sould like super ass, but are a lighter guage and easier to manipulate than the steels, if that's what you're going for.

 

love,

eor

 

conversely, steel strings would probably ruin a classical, too.

 

ps- don woned me

[garthman]

If you decide to do it (and why not? - I have an old electro-acoustic dreadnought strung with nylon and it works fine, sure, slightly less bright than a classical guitar when played unamplified - and, BTW, it sounds brilliant when it is played amplified - but fine for me) you will probably need to widen the nut cuts on the treble strings E, B, G. The bases should be fine. You might also want to slacken off the truss rod a little to compensate for the lower string tension.

 

I use high tension nylon strings (La Bella) to get a brighter sound but I thinkthe D'Addario Folk Nylon are high tension too (if I'm right in thinking that they are the bronze wound base / black nylon treble set?).

 

If you want to try something a little less drastic than going for nylon, you might try the Thomastik-Infeld "John Pearce Folk" strings. These have traditional silverplated copper wire wound on nylon filament for the bases and nylon tape wound on a steel rope core for the trebles (which are only slightly thicker than steel strings). They have ball ends so fit easily into the bridge and they are quite bright sounding - somewhere between steel and nylon. I tried them a couple of years ago and they were OK but I moved to traditional nylon because I wanted that particular sound that only nylon gives.

[MattSkibaIsGOD]

thanks guys. guess i won't be doing that.

[redhawks2]

When I was learning guitar I had a really hard time making notes and chords because it hurt my fingers so much. I had borrowed a friend's D-18 to learn on. So...I bought some nylons and put them on and learned just how much pressure it took to make a note and built up some callouses. Then I changed back to steels and never looked back. I have advised many new students to try this approach. Since the width of a typical steel string is much narrower than a classical it didn't make much sense to learn on a classical and then switch to steel since my students were not interested in classical playing so nylons on a steel string seemed to be a good comprimise. Some of them never went to steel strings because they liked the sound of the nylons. Who knew?

[garthman]

 

When I was learning guitar I had a really hard time making notes and chords because it hurt my fingers so much. I had borrowed a friend's D-18 to learn on. So...I bought some nylons and put them on and learned just how much pressure it took to make a note and built up some callouses. Then I changed back to steels and never looked back. I have advised many new students to try this approach. Since the width of a typical steel string is much narrower than a classical it didn't make much sense to learn on a classical and then switch to steel since my students were not interested in classical playing so nylons on a steel string seemed to be a good comprimise.

 

 

Well, I think that is a very good reason to use nylon strings. You see a lot of young people learning to play on classical guitars (I did) or 3/4 size classical guitars and I think they might well find it easier to learn on a nylon strung dreadnought type or, maybe (even better) a small bodied guitar.

 

 

Some of them never went to steel strings because they liked the sound of the nylons. Who knew?

 

 

And that's why I keep one of my dreads strung with nylon - the marginal reduction in volume is far outweighed by the sound and playing style of the nylon strings - and if no-one here has tried playing nylon strings on a guitar with a radiused fretboard, believe me, you are missing out!.

 

Go on, people! Give it a try! Don't stay in the traditionalist "you can't do that because people say so" rut!

[Tony Burns]

Honestly- it would be like trading a pro guitar for some 28 dollar Fleabay find - thats how terrible it would sound -probably better just to buy a cheapo classical.

[brahmz118]

I agree with garthman and redhawks2 -- I wouldn't say 'never' for this particular mod. It is what it is: a very quiet guitar that's more forgiving on your fingers.

 

Might be ideal for playing at night in a house full of kids. The tone is certainly warmer than an unplugged electric. I always have nylons available as an option for guitar-playing teenagers who have frequent fingerstick blood draws, or other conditions that make playing steel strings painful. Sometimes the wide classical neck just isn't practical.

 

The strings may sit on top of the nut slots but they can still be fretted with reasonable intonation. The slots basically become notches that hold the string in place, barring excessive bending. Ball-end nylons should be fine with bridge pins.

 

If nut slippage is a problem (and you don't want to widen the slots) you might have success with Nylgut strings, which are thinner than traditional nylons.

[Muddslide]

 

Don't do it. Gonna sound like crapola. Nylon strings won't drive a top braced for steel strings. Get a nylon-string guitar.

 

 

100% correct. Unless you are looking for an instrument that is so quiet you won't wake up the person sleeping next to you as you practice, avoid this scenario.

[Muddslide]

 

Go on, people! Give it a try! Don't stay in the traditionalist "you can't do that because people say so" rut!

 

 

Well, what I said didn't come from a traditionalist rut. I always endorse trying new things. But as a general rule, instruments designed for nylon strings should have nylons-- that is what they are braced for and that is what tension they are designed to take. Likewise, stringing up a nylong with steel can do quite a bit of damage, and I've seen that happen with both guitars and ukuleles.

[AK47]

The diameter of nylon strings are more consistant than steel strings causing the saddle to be more straight across on a classical guitar. So switching the style of strings would cause intonation problems even if it would work structurely [which it won't] So even if everything else worked you wouldn't play in tune up the neck.

[AK47]

Well, I think that is a very good reason to use nylon strings. You see a lot of young people learning to play on classical guitars (I did) or 3/4 size classical guitars and I think they might well find it easier to learn on a nylon strung dreadnought type or, maybe (even better) a small bodied guitar. And that's why I keep one of my dreads strung with nylon - the marginal reduction in volume is far outweighed by the sound and playing style of the nylon strings - and if no-one here has tried playing nylon strings on a guitar with a radiused fretboard, believe me, you are missing out!.

 

 

I think Ibanez makes a classical guitar with a traditional neck profile for steel string guitarists who "want to walk on the wild side" as I think they put it. This guitar would be braced properly and have proper intonation for nylon strings. Don't you think this would be a much better option for what you are attempting?

 

I think people should learn to play on the style and sound that they like. If that style be nylon, steel, or electric it is all cool. It will be creating the sounds they like and recreating the songs they like that will motivate them.

[garthman]

So even if everything else worked you wouldn't play in tune up the neck.

 

Sorry AK47, but that's just not true. When I set up my dreadnought with nylon strings I checked the intonation on my computer and it was just as accurate (all the way up the neck) as it was when strung with metal strings. Sure, I had to adjust the setup, widen the treble nut cuts a little and adjust the neck tension to compensate for the lower tension of the nylon stings but it worked fine. Of course you will have a lower volume than a steel string guitar but the volume is really only marginally less than my classical guitar (which is quite a nice 40 year old, solid wood, fan-braced, made in Spain, guitar).

 

And, of course, as some people have said (and which I have never suggested) you shouldn't put steel strings on a classical guitar but that is because a classical guitar is made to withstand the tension of nylon strings which are approx 1/2 the tension of steel strings - but, as I said, you can adjust the setup of a steel string guitar to compensate for the lower tension of nylon so it does work structurally.

 

I suspect a lot of you folks are just giving an opinion without trying it out.

[garthman]

 

I think Ibanez makes a classical guitar with a traditional neck profile for steel string guitarists who "want to walk on the wild side" as I think they put it. This guitar would be braced properly and have proper intonation for nylon strings. Don't you think this would be a much better option for what you are attempting?

 

 

They do a couple of models, AEG10NE and GA5TCE. I believe they are both laminate guitars with a narrower neck (45mm at nut) and flat fretboard. The AEG10NE looks more like a steel string guitar and the GA5TCE looks more like a classical guitar, both are electro-acoustic and both are cutaway. Yamaha also do a couple of "hybrid" models.

 

A friend of mine has the AEG10NE (he bought it after he tried my nylon strung dreadnought) but it doesn't sound any better than my adapted dreadnought. Like I said above, I think people are giving opinions based on theory - remember, theory says a bumble bee can't fly!

 

Lots of acoustic guitarists tend to accumulate quite a few instruments over the years. I just tried an experiment on one of my old dreadnoughts (of which I have a few) and it worked. As it happens, it is now one of my most-used guitars.

[Cripes]

Then, there's always the Crossover guitars sporting nylon string playability with acoustic-like sound. I'm pretty sure Taylor has one and there are others. There's gotta be some used ones out there. I don't know enough about who makes them to suggest a model.

[guitar Dan]

hi Garthman & all folks

just reading this thread for my 12 year old,i know nothing abought guitats,so just so i have it correct.!!

 

i have a cheap chinease electro-acuistic,wich i bought of e bay it basickly fell to bits after a couple of gigs so i made a new string holder,it sounds and works great,but because of the high action,it can be difficuilt to play on certain tunes,as my 12 year onld lads fingers are still devolping to full strenght.

 

if i thread this up with nylon strings,will the pick up still work or will the volume be effected.

 

we use a marshall as 50 w acuistic amp.

 

thanks for your time

 

steve & dan in spain

 

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3600/pic0013le1.jpg

[garthman]

 

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3600/pic0013le1.jpg hi Garthman & all folks just reading this thread for my 12 year old,i know nothing abought guitats,so just so i have it correct.!! i have a cheap chinease electro-acuistic,wich i bought of e bay it basickly fell to bits after a couple of gigs so i made a new string holder,it sounds and works great,but because of the high action,it can be difficuilt to play on certain tunes,as my 12 year onld lads fingers are still devolping to full strenght. if i thread this up with nylon strings,will the pick up still work or will the volume be effected. we use a marshall as 50 w acuistic amp. thanks for your time steve & dan in spain

 

 

It depends on the type of pickup. If it is fitted with a peizo, under saddle pickup (which it probably is) it will work fine with nylon strings. If the pickup is a magnetic type (like an electric guitar) it will only work with steel strings. You could always try just replacing one of the strings (say the D string) with a nylon one and see if the pickup works.

[kwakatak]

heh heh - this argument reminds me of when I first started playing. I did the exact opposite. I had a student-sized nylon string acoustic guitar with one of those floating bridges and put steel strings on it. Man, did my fingers hurt! It took a couple of years but I eventually got the hang of playing on it. Like they say: no pain, no gain!

 

Seriously, though: I have to go with the common wisdom here and suggest silk and steel strings over traditional nyloins. It's not just about what "feels" good but what the guitar was designed to do. IMO the whole comfort of a guitar doesn't rest solely on the string tension but on other things as well. For example, some folks may find that the necks on steel string guitars are too narrow or too deep in profile (so as to feel like a baseball bat.) Others may have trouble managing the bulk of a full-sized dreadnought when all they really need is something smaller like a true classical or parlor-sized guitar.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the guitar you have doesn't fit in some way and a real setup by a decent tech or ideally a luthier doesn't help the guitar to play easier for you, then that guitar overall is not for you. If learning to play on a flat-top, steel string acoustic is not comfortable, then try looking for a cheap nylon string or electric guitar.

 

That, BTW, is what I ended up doing. The total cost for my first electric with practice amp was about $80-$100 and it served its purpose.

[T.B.]

Lindsey Buckingham use to play a Baby Taylor strung with nylons.

 

Trina

[AK47]

Sorry AK47, but that's just not true. When I set up my dreadnought with nylon strings I checked the intonation on my computer and it was just as accurate (all the way up the neck) as it was when strung with metal strings. Sure, I had to adjust the setup, widen the treble nut cuts a little and adjust the neck tension to compensate for the lower tension of the nylon stings but it worked fine. Of course you will have a lower volume than a steel string guitar but the volume is really only marginally less than my classical guitar (which is quite a nice 40 year old, solid wood, fan-braced, made in Spain, guitar). And, of course, as some people have said (and which I have never suggested) you shouldn't put steel strings on a classical guitar but that is because a classical guitar is made to withstand the tension of nylon strings which are approx 1/2 the tension of steel strings - but, as I said, you can adjust the setup of a steel string guitar to compensate for the lower tension of nylon so it does work structurally. I suspect a lot of you folks are just giving an opinion without trying it out.

 

I give you that, for I haven't tried it. It still doesn't seem logical to me. I'm glad it worked for you. Did you check your intonation before you changed over to nylon?

 

When did you calibrate the intonation on your computer last? I'm sorry only joking but I couldn't resist.

[Stackabones]

I suspect a lot of you folks are just giving an opinion without trying it out.

 

A subtle way of calling other forumites liars. Nice!

[guitar Dan]

many thanks for the info will give it a go.

 

steve & Dan