Members knockwood Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I've only had my D-60 since April. But I'd swear that every time I take it out of the case, the grain seems sharper and more pronounced, the random red streaks seem bolder and more numerous, the overall shade of the top seems darker, redder... The freakin' thing is just beautiful. I think Sitka in general becomes more beautiful as it ages, taking on a cedar-esque tint. What has me gaga every time I open the case, though, is the apparent continual bloom of grain nuance... That's the part that has me wondering if my eyes are just playing tricks on me, or if I am perhaps just noticing nuances I had overlooked before and imagining that they were previosuly so visually subdued as to not be noticeable. Because this is such a young git - when I bought it in April it was basically straight out of the factory, a little detour to Montana for a once-over and a brilliant setup by Jason @ Notable, then into my greedy paws. How long does it generally take for Sitka to begin to oxidize noticeably, anyway? Given the disappearing act many of the great [known] tonewoods seem to be gearing up for, I think it's great that some makers are experimenting with alternative materials. But is there a substance on earth that remotely matches the beauty of wood? I say no. And now I will have a fifth cup of coffee.
Members guitarist21 Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 tonewoods seem to be gearing up for, I think it's great that some makers are experimenting with alternative materials. But is there a substance on earth that remotely matches the beauty of wood? I say no. Well if people would just stop smoking spruce... But seriously, its not just you. I find myself staring at the little grain lines frequently. Ellen
Members knockwood Posted September 8, 2007 Author Members Posted September 8, 2007 Well if people would just stop smoking spruce... Well, what else am I gonna put in my pipe? HPL?
Members leftync Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I've never seen a D-60 except in pix. It must be beautiful. I've got a D-03R and I think it's stunning in its simplicity. I thought mine was pretty well set up when I got it (from Guitar Adoptions, factory setup I think). What would a setup change?
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I've never seen a D-60 except in pix. It must be beautiful. I've got a D-03R and I think it's stunning in its simplicity. I thought mine was pretty well set up when I got it (from Guitar Adoptions, factory setup I think). What would a setup change? Normal charge for a setup is about an hours labor - typically 35 bucks or so plus parts (strings, a new saddle blank if it is needed). A good tech will watch you play and take a bunch of measurements before she starts work, and should remeasure when she is done. That way you can watch for changes. And I sure agree with Knock about beautiful wood just getting prettier. I've never understood putting aging toner on new spruce - just give it a few years.
Members Cripes Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 tonewoods seem to be gearing up for, I think it's great that some makers are experimenting with alternative materials. But is there a substance on earth that remotely matches the beauty of wood? I say no.And now I will have a fifth cup of coffee. Smitten, you are. It's great when a person finds a guitar they are wholly taken with. I'm sure that there are other guitars that might easily compare, but the fact that it happens with one particular guitar and player match-up seems rare, notwithstanding Ellen's copious, and perhaps generalized Masterbuilt addiction, of course. Being less of a visual romantic, seldom do I give any guitar a (deserving) visual study. I will, however, give it a thorough audible study. My only requirement is that it give me a particular sound. After finding that I will give the candidate an objective damage inspection. I will say that I prefer all wood appointments but will compromise on that for sound. I didn't know much about guitar science before I arrived on this forum. Now I have a fair working knowledge of tonewoods and have used it to seek out certain sounds. I've owned/played all the combinations of tonewoods and have generally decided that spruce and cedar over rosewood are my preferences. I now own one of each and have to say that steel string GAS has not visited me since getting them. I would now like to make a study of classical guitars.
Members Hudman Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I love the look of aged spruce. It makes me want to leave my IKFC OM-03R on the wall hanger so the UV rays can age it faster. Unfortunatley, I am still in the "over protective" stages of guitar ownership to leave it out of the case when I'm not playing it. Besides, I love the fragrant blast of rosewood I get everytime I open the case. I'm loving my IKFC OM-03R. It's a work of art.
Members rjoxyz Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I love the look of aged spruce. It makes me want to leave my IKFC OM-03R on the wall hanger so the UV rays can age it faster. Unfortunatley, I am still in the "over protective" stages of guitar ownership to leave it out of the case when I'm not playing it. Besides, I love the fragrant blast of rosewood I get everytime I open the case.I'm loving my IKFC OM-03R. It's a work of art. Most of my guitars are on stands in my family room. The last few months, the top on my HD-28 (couple years old) is really starting to age--gets prettier all the time. Seems like the darkening has accelerated over this summer, though it really does not get much direct sunlight.
Members knockwood Posted September 8, 2007 Author Members Posted September 8, 2007 Being less of a visual romantic, seldom do I give any guitar a (deserving) visual study. I will, however, give it a thorough audible study. My only requirement is that it give me a particular sound. After finding that I will give the candidate an objective damage inspection. I will say that I prefer all wood appointments but will compromise on that for sound. I find that I need some degree of marriage between looks and tone. With me, this is largely, I think, because my ear simply ain't that hot and never will be. Most of the people I know who can take or leave looks are much better musicians than I will ever be. If you offered me a choice: Get zapped with a magic wand and instantly either be the greatest player ever to draw breath or build the greatest acoustic guitars the world has ever known, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat (as long as the greatest guitars the world has ever known also get to be beautiful). I think "visual romantic" is probably a very apt term. I sincerely suspect that when I look at a guitar and feel that tug that visual beauty inspires in me, whatever the hell it is, I unconsciously tag that git with some imaginary mojo that makes it sound 20% better to me than it does to the rest of the planet. I really do think that, as dumb as I know I must be to think it. The thing is, I don't mind being fooled by my imagination. Probably saves me some money on gits.
Members Cripes Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I just spent the last few minutes looking at the build quality and woods of my guitars. Characteristics of different tonewoods and their grain patterns are an interesting study but when you think about it, Mother Nature spends 30 plus years nurturing something we tear down and render it into something we might ultimately call beautiful. Its bark is stripped, its flesh is dried and its shape is reworked from organic to geometric. It is further refined in shape and then sorted for structural and visual qualities. It is then used to create structures and various other artifacts dependent on its species. In its use for musical stringed instruments the sound of the winds, rains, birds and varmints calling from its boughs are replaced with metallic and polymer utterances found no where in nature. It is completely transformed from a natural form of organic beauty to an unnatural form of geometric beauty, audibly and visually. The only difference is Mother Nature writes better songs. Sort of makes me think about getting a Rainsong next GAS attack. Sorry Knockwood. Didn't mean to pirate your thread. You just got me thinking and I try like hell not to do much of that.
Members kwakatak Posted September 8, 2007 Members Posted September 8, 2007 I have to agree. The top on my nearly 34 year-old Takamine has darkened nicely with age. The color strongly resembles cedar. Even though the top is laminated I still love this guitar. http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6544361 I don't know what color it was originally since I'm not the original owner but here's a picture from Takamine's website:http://www.takamine.com/pics/models/F360_lg.jpg
Members recordingtrack1 Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 I've only had my D-60 since April. But I'd swear that every time I take it out of the case, the grain seems sharper and more pronounced, the random red streaks seem bolder and more numerous, the overall shade of the top seems darker, redder... The freakin' thing is just beautiful. I think Sitka in general becomes more beautiful as it ages, taking on a cedar-esque tint. What has me gaga every time I open the case, though, is the apparent continual bloom of grain nuance... That's the part that has me wondering if my eyes are just playing tricks on me, or if I am perhaps just noticing nuances I had overlooked before and imagining that they were previosuly so visually subdued as to not be noticeable.... Lysergic Acid diathelmyde! RT1
Members J45dale Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 I have always heard it takes about 30 years for a natural finish Sitka Spruce top to acheive it maximum color change. Sort of a Pumpkin Orange.I really like the silking, red streaks, and even bear-claw on some tops. Just think, years ago, when Master-Grade tops were less expensive and more plentyfull, luiters threw away these imperfect, non-tight stright-grained,run-out, bear-clawed imprefections.Dale.
Members Hamhand Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Now that, (pumpkin colored), is the best description I've heard to describe my 30 year old Gibson MK-35 top. I was just playing it yesterday and found myself admiring the spruce top color. (To say nothing of the sweet mahogany tones).
Members guitarist21 Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Now the spruce top on my Epi has "vintage toner" on it. What's it going to look like in thirty years? Really pumpkin orange? Same color? Ellen
Members Simon76 Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 I wonder if Lutehole covers change color over time.If you get one that matches now then maybe in the future it will start standing out more and more. So maybe it would be better to get a Lutehole that matches the fretboard or bindinginstead of the top soundboard.
Members Cripes Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Thinking out loud here about wood aging, color and finishes. I do know that wood will take on a patina, or color, over the years. But, what about the finish on the wood? I also know that varnishes darken just as naturally as wood because they are (were) usually organically based. These days UV cured polymers are slowly supplanting the older organic finishes. How will they age and color? We are really the first (guitar) generation to consume guitars with the UV cured product applied. I know nitrocellulose finishes will check with age because they are brittle, and after so many years of expansion and contraction they will eventually become fatigued and begin cracking. I'm wondering what the UV cured stuff will do. I hope it doesn't suddenly start lifting off guitars in delaminated bubbles like fiberglass does from it's substrate after a few years. I mean, the stuff is quickly applied and cured making me wonder if it has a chance to soak into and get a good bond with the wood before it is cured. If not and it's just lying on the guitar's surface, it seems to me that it will eventually simply lift off.
Members denvertrakker Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Now the spruce top on my Epi has "vintage toner" on it. What's it going to look like in thirty years? Really pumpkin orange? Ellen If that happens, maybe you can sell it to this guy:
Members Cripes Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Pumpkin colored. Sheesh. I prefer a more upscale color description like sienna or sepiatone.
Members Cripes Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 If that happens, maybe you can sell it to this guy: Dude (dudette?) has got eyeliner on. Something unnerving about that individual.
Members riffmeister Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Lysergic Acid diathelmyde! 'diethylamide' sorry, I'm a chemist. or Lucy (in the) Sky (with) Diamonds.
Members riffmeister Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 ....steel string GAS has not visited me since getting them. I would now like to make a study of classical guitars. Oh my. That was certainly my downfall......
Members Cripes Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 Oh my. That was certainly my downfall...... Nah. I've seen your collection posted here. You shopped right. I'm banking that you didn't buy them all up. I need to replace this Yamaha.
Members riffmeister Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 I need to replace this Yamaha. Yes, you do ! Like steel string guitars, there are sooooo many good choices out there.... .
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted September 9, 2007 Members Posted September 9, 2007 'diethylamide' sorry, I'm a chemist. or Lucy (in the) Sky (with) Diamonds. ...it's not just for breakfast anymore...
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