Natural vs. Satin finish - does it affect sound?

[jgb8]

Hi all,

 

I'm assuming that "natural" means that there isn't much (if any) laquer on the wood - simply unifinished.... It seems to me that throwing laquer on top of a guitar would affect the way the wood resonates and affect sound, but I wanted to throw this question out to you guys...

[drnihili]

As I understand it, the same amount of finish is applied, it's just a difference in how much time is spent polishing the guitar after that. I would be amazed if anyone could here the difference before and after polishing.

[happy-man]

I learned about this satin/polishing issue when I noticed a shiny spot on the top of my Taylor 110. That's when I learned that when I do certain types of strumming with my fingers I'll rest my thumb above the soundhole. In a few years it has polished a small area to a glossy finish. I haven't noticed that it has effected the sound any.

[Freeman Keller]

What do you mean by "natural"? The usual way to think of finish is gloss or satin. In that case, within a given manufacture one of two things happens - they use the same material but simply do not do the final wet sanding and polishing on a satin finish, or in some cases I've heard that the formula of the finish is slightly different.

 

You usually see satin finishes on "price point guitars" - 100, 200 , 300 Taylors, 15 series Martins, and competing Larrivees and others. Why? In one word - it is cheaper. By eliminating the polishing steps, whether done by a robot or a person, you can save significant money on the git, and if you are competing with other satin guitars, why not. Another arguement for the cost savings is that the wood does not need as much pore filling and leveling.

 

Most people feel that a thin finish is desirable for tone, but increasingly the spraying and polishing are done by robots and the composition of the finish is optimized for that kind of production. Among fine hand built guitars you will still find the traditional hand applied, leveled and polished nitro lacquers and French Polishes used and the finish is very thin. But production guitars today are using catalyzed polymers and other modern materials - yet still producing some very wonderful sounding instruments.

 

Lastly, it is possible to polish a satin guitar to what I call "semi-gloss" and as Happy-man says, parts of it will acquire a high gloss over the years. The back of the neck on my Taylor 314 is as glossy as my other gits - ironic because the neck is the one place you might want it satin.

[Hudman]

Natural finish could mean that the spruce is not stained like vintage sunburst. It may have nothing to do with the actual poly or nitro coating.

[moctzal]

 

Hi all, I'm assuming that "natural" means that there isn't much (if any) laquer on the wood - simply unifinished.... It seems to me that throwing laquer on top of a guitar would affect the way the wood resonates and affect sound, but I wanted to throw this question out to you guys...

 

 

Almost no guitars don't have finish, and I've never seen any mass produced guitar that isn't finished (if it's made of wood). Freeman is right in what he says about satin and gloss. Natural finish usually means no color, although the majority of mahogany used on guitars is stained to that dark color we're all familiar with when we think of mahogany. Finishes aren't always lacquer, alot of companies use polyesters and the like. There's also one school of thought that believes the finish is an integral part of tone. Many people think a contributing factor to Stradvarius' violins tone is the finish. One observation I've made (this could very well be wrong mind you) is that when there's thicker finish, the guitar sounds slightly more compresssed and when finish is thinner it sounds more complex and open. That previous sentence is purely from personal observation and could very well be wrong.

[Cripes]

Satin produces a softer tone. Shiny produces a brighter tone.

 

Err...

 

 

Satin and gloss are basically the same stuff applied at the same thickness. Matte (dull) and satin (semi-gloss) finishes are achieved by mixing gloss finishes with prescribed amounts of a flattening agent. The gloss finishes are applied, cured and then buffed out to a high gloss. The other finishes are left to cure only. All finishes will either dull out, in the case of gloss, or smooth out to a gloss in the case of all others. Just the arm constantly working on the lower bout, with or without a sleeve, will eventually wear the gloss to a duller appearance and, conversely, buff out matte and semi-gloss finishes to be glossier than the normally untouched surrounding area. It is easier to maintain a gloss finish because the affected area can be cleaned and carefully buffed to match it's original sheen. Once duller finishes become locally glossed the only next (practicable) course of action is to buff the entire area to match.

 

Besides liking a gloss finish, I know it will offer less of a headache in the long run. Plus, dull finish appears dull because the surface is actually rough (characterized by peaks and valleys when viewed under magnification) and such finishes are more prone to acquiring and holding skin oils and dirt. The peaks are removed by constant errosion from contact with the arm, going in and out of the case, and basic handling when played.

 

In a nutshell, I do not see any practical advantage, or other reason, for applying a dull or semi-gloss finish to a musical instrument. What it does do is eliminate certain labor costs in the manufacturing process.