Strange Harmonic Overtones!

[ChinoKid12]

I'm working on a new song and there is this one part that I get these strange out of tune harmonic overtones. It is in standard tuning with the capo on the 4th fret. Guitar is a Taylor GSMC.

 

Can anyone diagnose this problem? It's driving me nuts.

 

See the clip attached to hear it first hand. I played it once with the capo and one without. Excuse the sloppiness!

 

EDIT: This is the clip I meant to put up!

[ChinoKid12]

Anyone? Come on I'm sure someone has to have experienced this problem before. It almost sounds like feedback even though that would be impossible seeing as I recorded it without having any speakers on.

[kwakatak]

I'm not sure what you're referring too. I can't make out anything through all that reverb other than a big "pop" at about :32. If that's what you're talking about, it sounds like a loose wire or faulty connection in the jack. I get that all the time in my older solid-body electric.

 

I'm no expert on how to fix such things though. Sorry. Just trying to help clarify the issue for those who might know better.

[ChinoKid12]

Sorry put up the wrong clip. Check the one on my first post now; this one has no reverb.

 

Note the overtones that are constant throughout the fingerpicking. It is a high pitch sound almost like a tuning fork.

[drnihili]

I'm not hearing anything like what you describe. No constant overtones or anything like that that my poor old ears can pick out.

[ChinoKid12]

I'm not sure how else to describe it other than a slightly out of tune harmonic that rings during one of the higher notes in the chordal pattern.

 

The most secluded example is at :15

[JasmineTea]

Whenever that happens to me I just take the git outside and bang it against the parking meter. Fixes the problem, plus I get some loose change.

[kwakatak]

Conceptually that sounds like the textbook definition of a "wolf note" and/or it may indeed be something that could be fixed with a setup, but I can only guess as to what is causing this. I tried to listen to the best of my ability with my headphones (which probably aren't the best) to the note you mentioned. It sounds like the note is partially muted somehow and that that overtone may be being caused by whatever is attentuating the string.

 

Like I said, I don't know. I'm basically just a partially-self-taught hack who just picks up the guitar and noodles around. I don't have all that good an ear for tone; I focus more on melodies and rhythms and such. That being said, I gotta say I really like this piece of yours. Nice work!

[dhoenisch]

I hear them loud and clear. I don't know how much this can help you, but I used to get a sound similar to that on my banjo once, and I had to add a little relief to the neck, and it fixed that issue.

[ChinoKid12]

Conceptually that sounds like the textbook definition of a "wolf note" and/or it may indeed be something that could be fixed with a setup, but I can only guess as to what is causing this. I tried to listen to the best of my ability with my headphones (which probably aren't the best) to the note you mentioned. It sounds like the note is partially muted somehow and that that overtone may be being caused by whatever is attentuating the string. Like I said, I don't know. I'm basically just a partially-self-taught hack who just picks up the guitar and noodles around. I don't have all that good an ear for tone; I focus more on melodies and rhythms and such. That being said, I gotta say I really like this piece of yours. Nice work!

 

Thanks kwakatak! Still a work in progress, but I want to debut it on the 29th so much work to be done

 

I think I should have my guitar set up sometime soon. A friend of mine said the same thing. Although I still have no idea why it will help.

[ChinoKid12]

 

I hear them loud and clear. I don't know how much this can help you, but I used to get a sound similar to that on my banjo once, and I had to add a little relief to the neck, and it fixed that issue.

 

 

Hmmm I wonder what physics is behind this. If only this overtone was pleasant!

[rjoxyz]

Whenever that happens to me I just take the git outside and bang it against the parking meter. Fixes the problem, plus I get some loose change.

 

 

Thanks JT--had coffee up my nose for a second.

[VengefulTikiGod]

Well if the action is too low it may be that the string is ever so slightly grazing another fret when you play it, triggering a harmonic. But maybe just get the intonation set up before you go playing with the action. I hate to tell ANYONE to raise their action

[Elliss]

What you are hearing is likely a natural resonance of your instrument. Acoustic guitars have many natural resonances - if you have ever looked at Chladni patterns, you can see that the top alone can have many resonant modes - the trick is to try to have none of these be dominant or interfere with the sound. Luthiers can spend a long time developing bracing patterns that minimize these resonances for a given batch of wood, then tweaking each instrument to get the purest tone possible. With production guitars, it is not possible to do this.

 

You might look into a carbon fiber guitar sometime in the future - if they do the design right, there is much less varation from instrument to instrument because there is not nearly as much tonal variation as there is in different pieces of wood, and they don't change as much with humidity.

[kwakatak]

Well if the action is too low it may be that the string is ever so slightly grazing another fret when you play it, triggering a harmonic. But maybe just get the intonation set up before you go playing with the action. I hate to tell ANYONE to raise their action

 

That's what I was thinking as well as maybe a ball end that's not seated firmly underneath the bridgeplate? Again, I'm just guessing here too. I don't know beans about the principles involved with resonance of guitar tops and all that.

[Treborklow]

You might also try a different brand of strings, or maybe a heavier guage. Some strings work better with some guitars than others as many have different cores.

[BrandonBrinley]

loved this song cant wait to hear it finished sounds amazing wow post when its done :]]

[hamdouni]

I get that kind of thing all the time on my electric guitar - a thinline, maybe that's why?- and I like it. It only happens with the first two strings.

[ChinoKid12]

Thanks for the help everyone! I think I will just label it the haunting spirit of the guitar. I will get it set up anyway and will report back if it was fixed.

 

Either way I'll let you hear the song when I'm done!

[jbmando]

I hear it. The note seems to be a Bb, same as the 19th fret on the high E string. This harmonic occurs on the 8th fret of the D string when it is capoed at the 4th fret. Maybe you are causing it inadvertently with your left hand somehow. Or maybe it is just an inherent resonance of your guitar. Does it do it when you play the same tune capoed at a different fret?

[ChinoKid12]

 

I hear it. The note seems to be a Bb, same as the 19th fret on the high E string. This harmonic occurs on the 8th fret of the D string when it is capoed at the 4th fret. Maybe you are causing it inadvertently with your left hand somehow. Or maybe it is just an inherent resonance of your guitar. Does it do it when you play the same tune capoed at a different fret?

 

 

No it seems to only happen when capoed on the 4th fret. I suppose I could just lower it a half step...

[jbmando]

The harmonic on 4th fret up is a little hard to produce normally. I would think you'd get that note worse capoing 6, 3 or 1 because then you'd have open Bb's, if it is a sound chamber resonance issue.

[Scodiddly]

I had some weirdness with my acoustic and strange high harmonics. Took a while to track down, but it was the strings between the tuning pegs and the nut. I put a little strip of foam under them and it cleared right up.

 

Might be worth a try for you.

[ChinoKid12]

 

I had some weirdness with my acoustic and strange high harmonics. Took a while to track down, but it was the strings between the tuning pegs and the nut. I put a little strip of foam under them and it cleared right up. Might be worth a try for you.

 

 

Sweet I'll give it a shot

[riffmeister]

the other thing to think about is a resonance of the strings behind the capo......the length of string bewtween the capo and the nut. Try muting that part of the strings when playing......