Members spruce goose Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 Hello all, I was in a store today and I saw a 1990 914ce Taylor for around 2,000$. The guitar had a crack in the front, but the sales guy said that the store expert checked the guitar, and determined that the crack has been repaired. He basically said the crack was "cosmetic". I'm not an expert, so I really don't know the significance of this. The guitar sounds nice, and is cheap for a 914ce. What do you guys think? Thx PS. Is a 1990 914ce better or worse than a 2007 one?
Members Attila Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 Willie Nelson's main acoustic has some cracks to it...
Members DonK Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 For 2007, Taylor has changed their model designation scheme, so I don't think there is a 914ce. I couldn't tell you whether a 1990 914 is better than a recent 914, apart from telling you that a 1990 model should benefit from the aging process in which guitars "open up" as they're played. Regarding the crack, you should ask how it was repaired. A significant crack would have to be cleated from underneath, and you should be able to see the cleats inside with a dental mirror and a flashlight. If it was a really minor crack, it probably was fixed by forcing glue into the crack. Taylors are finished in UV-cured polyurethane, so I would expect it would be tough to eliminate the cosmetic appearance of the crack, even if it was a just a finish crack (nitro is much easier to deal with for this). If you can establish that it was truly repaired professionally, then it shouldn't be a problem. The bigger issue would probably be whether the guitar has been humidified properly since the original crack, such that it's not in imminent danger of developing additional cracks.
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 I'll just add a couple of thoughts to what Don said. If the top crack is the center seam the most common cause is sever dehydration. It can be fixed, but it tells me two things - (1) there might be other serious problems (frets, braces, neck angle, sunken top, finish), and (2) the PO didn't care properly for a very expensive guitar. If that is the case I don't consider this cosmetic - I would want to know how it happened, how it was fixed and whether the guitar has more issues. Assuming it is structurally sound the 914 is kind of Taylor's flagship - beautiful wood, lots of bling - and should be a wonderful guitar. I don't know if 1990 was early ES or late, if it is first generation make sure it has been upgraded. 2007 will gain you the latest ES, factory warranty, probably a scarf headstock joint, NT neck joint and the peace of mind of owning a guitar that had not been abused.
Members spruce goose Posted July 23, 2007 Author Members Posted July 23, 2007 I'll just add a couple of thoughts to what Don said. If the top crack is the center seam the most common cause is sever dehydration. It can be fixed, but it tells me two things - (1) there might be other serious problems (frets, braces, neck angle, sunken top, finish), and (2) the PO didn't care properly for a very expensive guitar. If that is the case I don't consider this cosmetic - I would want to know how it happened, how it was fixed and whether the guitar has more issues. Yes, I just learned about this yesterday on the Taylor website. I could check if the top is sunken next time I'm there, but I don't know how to check the neck angle, frets, braces, and finish. Could you give me some tips? Assuming it is structurally sound the 914 is kind of Taylor's flagship - beautiful wood, lots of bling - and should be a wonderful guitar. I don't know if 1990 was early ES or late, if it is first generation make sure it has been upgraded. 2007 will gain you the latest ES, factory warranty, probably a scarf headstock joint, NT neck joint and the peace of mind of owning a guitar that had not been abused. I can't really afford a new one. I'll go back and check the guitar again, and if it looks ok and sounds ok, perhaps I'll give them an offer. They already took about 10% off, so it's like 1,800$ now. A new 314ce costs 1,600. BTW, when/why should it have been upgraded?
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 Yes, I just learned about this yesterday on the Taylor website. I could check if the top is sunken next time I'm there, but I don't know how to check the neck angle, frets, braces, and finish. Could you give me some tips? I can't really afford a new one. I'll go back and check the guitar again, and if it looks ok and sounds ok, perhaps I'll give them an offer. They already took about 10% off, so it's like 1,800$ now. A new 314ce costs 1,600. My Sick Guitar sticky gives some of that information (top of the page). This is one of the best summary of humidity issues - things I would look for are sharp fret ends (or frets that show evidence of being filed) and the kind of wavy look to the top finish that Larrivee shows. http://www.larrivee.com/flash/features/education/humidity/humidity.html A couple of things to think about - a new 914CE lists for $5428 according to the Taylor site. Assuming you could negotiate 25 or 30 percent off, you would be paying about $4000 for a new one. They want half that for a 17 year old guitar with only "cosmetic" damage - mmmmm.... A 314 is a terrible comparison, but my wife probably paid about $750 for the year old one that she gave me (no C or E, but still had the registration card). If you are truely interested in that guitar I would take it to a good repair person (preferably an authorized Taylor tech) and have it completely gone through - get a second opinion. Good luck with whatever you do. As I recall the history of Taylor electronics, the first were Fishman, then came some very trouble prone ES, most of which were upgraded by the factory. The newest has the tasteful litte wooden knobs next to the neck heel and are supposed to be very good. Don't know how to tell the difference but many threads on the AGF (formerly Taylor forum). http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php By the way - there was a top cracked high end Taylor that someone was asking about on this forum maybe six months ago. As I recall he/she decided to pass on it. This isn't the same guitar, by any chance?
Members spruce goose Posted July 23, 2007 Author Members Posted July 23, 2007 Thanks for the info. The typical price for a new 914ce is around 4,000. http://www.zzounds.com/item--TAY914CE I agree, though, that 2,000 is low. The sales guy said that it was low because of the crack. It also doesn't have the original case, or any papers. The guy claims that the store had it for over a month. I don't know if it's the same Taylor from 6 months ago.... I take it you think this might be a bad idea. I realize that I'd be taking a risk, but what's the worst that could happen?
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 I take it you think this might be a bad idea. I realize that I'd be taking a risk, but what's the worst that could happen? I would probably shy away but that doesn't mean you should. If the guitar is structurally sound and you feel the repair hasn't compromised anything (including the way it sound) then that is a heck of a good price on a truely beautiful guitar. There are lots of old guitars that have repairs and are making beautiful music (my old D-18 had a repaired pickguard and key crack and it continues to go up in value and sound). I think it is a lot like buying a car that had significant damage in a wreck and was fixed (assuming the crack is as bad as I think it might be) - it could be a very good buy, but I would want an independent opinion. If the crack is merely cosmetic another opinion would confirm that also. (I'm basing all of this on the pictures of that other Taylor and on the little vid that ran on the Taylor website with Bob showing how to rehumidify a very dry guitar that also had soundboard cracks).
Members spruce goose Posted July 23, 2007 Author Members Posted July 23, 2007 If you are truely interested in that guitar I would take it to a good repair person (preferably an authorized Taylor tech) and have it completely gone through - get a second opinion. Ok, but how would I do that? I presume that I would have to buy the guitar first, but under the condition of being able to return it.. (I don't know what the store policy is for used guitars). Then, I'd take it to an expert. How much would that cost? I was in this store yesterday: http://nymag.com/listings/stores/dans_chelsea_guitars/and they seem to know about guitars, so that is one place I could take it to. Another option would be: http://www.mandoweb.com/ but that's in Staten Island........ (I'm in Manhattan). There are some Taylor dealers in Brooklyn, but I don't know if they have techs.. http://www.taylorguitars.com/dealers/northeast.asp
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 23, 2007 Members Posted July 23, 2007 I would buy it "on approval" - 10 day money back or something like that. If they really feel there is nothing wrong with the guitar they should jump at that. I'd do a little research first and find a good tech - call your Taylor shops and find out who they recommend (they will have someone to do their setups and warranty work). Call her and tell her what is going on - most good techs charge somewhere around $35 to 50 for a complete setup (plus parts) - I can't believe that looking over this guitar and passing judgement would be any more than that. If the crack is cosmetic and correctly fixed she should be able to say that easily. If it is all prearranged you should be able to do that in an hour. To put this in perspect, I had some issues with my old Martin 12 string. The local martin rep happened to be in town (and town for me is a rural city of 35000 in the center of Washington state). I asked him to look at the guitar and he told me exactly what was wrong (loose bridge, no broken braces, needed a neck set) and threw a new set of strings on it (so I could play it until I sent if off for the work). Total cost - zip (that is until I had the work done LOL). So I'm all the was across the country giving you free advice on a guitar I've never seen. If it is worth 1800 bucks to you it ought to be worth a little effort to take it to someone who can actually look at it. If you don't the anwer to your question of "what is the worst ..." - I'll just say maybe nothing.
Members EastCoastPlayah Posted July 24, 2007 Members Posted July 24, 2007 $1800 + tax is a lot of money to gamble with. No papers, etc is a sign to me that someone does not know or care about the history of this expensive instrument. I have every receipt for every guitar I own, and keep the slips when I get a set up or change a nut, etc. Seems fishy to me when you spend $4k on a guitar and can't be bothered to take care of it or send it back for a warranty repair. Isn't this why they have limited lifetime warranties? In my experience, used guitars have up to a 30 day warranty, but ones with obvious damage could be another story. Unless you know the dealer or the person who had it last, I would be inclined to not trust what the sales guy says - they have been known to say what needs to be said to sell a guitar. I bought a guitar with a crack in the back near the back seam and it has been stable for 10 years now. I got it for 1/2 price and it was in great shape ($400 vs $800 new), but was for the everyday guitar so it wasn't that big of issue. Yours is a little different to me. The most you could lose....$1800 + tax I'd say, but I'm not much of a gambler. Personally, I would try to find one on Ebay/Craigslist/etc that has a couple of minor bumps for close to the same money. By the way - a beautiful guitar, I wish I could buy one.....
Members spruce goose Posted July 24, 2007 Author Members Posted July 24, 2007 Thanks for the tips, guys. I basically got it. They have it on hold for me until tomorrow. They agreed to give me my cash back after up to 45 days if I am not pleased. This will give me time to go to 1 or 2 experts. They also knocked an additional 100$ off the price. Is this "fishy"? Perhaps. But if they are willing to give me my money back, it's less of a risk. I checked the guitar again and it looked fine except for that one crack. I'll give it to an expert/s and see what he/they says. I owe you one for your help, Freeman (and everyone else). BTW, it's a 914c, not a 914ce. Is there a difference betwen them, or is the 914c just the old name? It has a pickup and a mic... PS. Does this mean that I have teh GAS? Now all I need is a preamp and a mic, and............
Members Tony Burns Posted July 24, 2007 Members Posted July 24, 2007 Not necessarily fishy - with any crack even if its repaired scares alot of people off - you might just have one super instrument their- you can get an inspection mirror at a Sear's store to look inside to see if their are any cleats on the top - but their are ways to fix cracks without cleats - a book by don teeter on guitar repair uses superglue in a few instances of cracks in top - I fixed a crack in a top of a guitar 25 years ago and its been fine - I also wonder wether or not cleats hurt the sound of a good soundboard - guess that will start another post - take it easy on me fellows !
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 24, 2007 Members Posted July 24, 2007 Spruce, good luck with it and I hope everything turns out well. The E means it came from the factory with electronics, yours may have had them added at a later time. Let us know what your techs say when they look at it. And whatever its past history has been, be aware that Taylors are fairly sensitive to humidity so take care of it. Taylor's website has some great recommendations as well as the Larrivee reference cited above. Enjoy it, the 914 is a beautiful guitar. btw - have you seen the real Spruce Goose? I visited it when it was being shipped to Portland and have seen it in the little (!) museum that it now resides in. Pretty darn impressive.
Members denvertrakker Posted July 24, 2007 Members Posted July 24, 2007 . They agreed to give me my cash back after up to 45 days if I am not pleased. Make sure you get that agreement IN WRITING, right on the sales receipt if possible. Verbal promises get conveniently forgotten...
Members spruce goose Posted July 25, 2007 Author Members Posted July 25, 2007 btw - have you seen the real Spruce Goose? I visited it when it was being shipped to Portland and have seen it in the little (!) museum that it now resides in. Pretty darn impressive. No, but I saw the movie, and I really like spruce.
Members spruce goose Posted July 25, 2007 Author Members Posted July 25, 2007 Oh, and did I mention that it plays like a bell, and is really really shiny?
Members spruce goose Posted August 1, 2007 Author Members Posted August 1, 2007 Well, looks like I'm keeping it. I know some people here don't like cracks, but this guitar seems ok. I brought it to two stores, and had 3 guys look at it, and they all agreed that it was a pretty good deal. I heard that Taylors have a very thin spruce top, and that many of them crack in the east coast. I think this guitar is better than anything new I could get for the price. I might be able to find a decent used one in the same price range, but this was a good opportunity for me. I got it for a decent price from a store that gave me an option to return it. The guitar records well, but is not that great for hard strumming. When "fingerestyled", though, it sounds like a bell. As an electric guitar player, I suck at finger style.. but I could always get better. It sounds nice with a pick too, though.
Members Queequeg Posted August 1, 2007 Members Posted August 1, 2007 Hello all,I was in a store today and I saw a 1990 914ce Taylor for around 2,000$. What do you guys think?ThxPS. Is a 1990 914ce better or worse than a 2007 one? It depends.The electronics have changed dramatically. This is a subject for endless debate.Some folks prefer the older Taylors. The 1990 model was built before the advent of the finger joint neck/head. It is a one-piece neck.I don't have an opinion on the repair (without seeing or playing it). The new re-designed Taylors are getting very good reviews.I've played a few of the older 914s. Beautiful guitars.Before you buy, get an independent opinion on the repair. I wouldn't necessarily take the seller's word for it. That price might be a skosh high for a repaired guitar. maybe not...
Members spruce goose Posted August 28, 2007 Author Members Posted August 28, 2007 Update: I've decided to maybe replace my 914c with a Gibson. The reason is that the 914c isn't very good for rhythm/strumming. Haha, should have thought about this before I bought it, eh..? No biggy, though. Live and learn. I'll try to sell it for a decent price, or for $$$ plus a trade. Meanwhile, it's not a bad thing to have. Thanks again for your help, guys. The acoustic forum here seems a bit more helpful than the other forums. Maybe it's the higher IQ level, I dunno.
Members Etienne Rambert Posted August 28, 2007 Members Posted August 28, 2007 Negotiate 'em down to $1600 to 1800. Then buy it. Take a vacation to Vietnam. Drop it off at the Luthier's shop. Go tour Cambodia or go to the beach for a couple of weeks. (For God's sake, Get the Hell out of Saigon). Come back, pick up your newly repaired and exquisite Taylor 914ce.
Members spruce goose Posted September 17, 2007 Author Members Posted September 17, 2007 Got some pics now, guys (and gal):
Members guitarist21 Posted September 17, 2007 Members Posted September 17, 2007 Holy smokes! That is a gorgeous guitar! A little more bling than I'd like personally but wow is it nice to look at. Bet it sounds great. Ellen
Members spruce goose Posted September 17, 2007 Author Members Posted September 17, 2007 Holy smokes! That is a gorgeous guitar! A little more bling than I'd like personally but wow is it nice to look at. Bet it sounds great. Ellen Yes, the bling was a bit much at first, but you'd be surprised how fast these things grow on you. It sounds pretty good, if you like to fingerpick.
Members BrandonBrinley Posted September 17, 2007 Members Posted September 17, 2007 i dont see any crack ......... i think im in love :]
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