Can I do better than Art & Lutherie Lam Folk?

[Broadus]

I'm getting impatient with trying to find that elusive great deal for a smaller-sized acoustic. So, what about an Art & Lutherie Folk? $209 is more than I wanted to spend, but I don't want to spend $100 for something I'm not going to like.

 

What I really would like is this Norman B20 folk: $379 w/free hard shell case. I wonder if the Norman would sound that much better than the A & L. (I'm trying to justify the lower-priced guitar. )

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm looking for a second guitar I can keep in my office and take on trips. Since I already have a dread (Norman ST68), I figured I would go with a different size.

 

What do you think? Any other suggestions? And yes, I am watching eBay, but folks often go crazy in their bidding.

 

Bill

[drnihili]

At that price I think you'd do better with a Walden G570. But then I don't like the sound or feel of Art & Lutherie. Here's an ebay with a day left

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/WALDEN-G570-GRAND-AUDITORIUM-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-SATIN_W0QQitemZ130157071464QQihZ003QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

and one from an ebay store with a BIN of less than 200.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/WALDEN-NATURA-G570-Acoustic-Guitar_W0QQitemZ200115468971QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

 

Or, if you prefer a spruce top, try the G550. Not as common on ebay, but here's one from a good store for 229.

 

http://www.theacousticmusician.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=10&products_id=424

[AugTPD]

The same place has the A&L Folk solid top for only $30 more. I've played that guitar and it is a great little instrument, especially for under $250. I'd spend the extra $30.

 

Just one caution on the solid topped Godin guitars. The ones with the satin finish cedar tops, like the A&L Folk, tend to show pickwear easily if you are a real heavy strummer. But they are quality built, great sounding guitars.

[AugTPD]

 

At that price I think you'd do better with a Walden G570. But then I don't like the sound or feel of Art & Lutherie. Here's an ebay with a day left http://cgi.ebay.com/WALDEN-G570-GRAND-AUDITORIUM-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-SATIN_W0QQitemZ130157071464QQihZ003QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem and one from an ebay store with a BIN of less than 200. http://cgi.ebay.com/WALDEN-NATURA-G570-Acoustic-Guitar_W0QQitemZ200115468971QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2385QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem Or, if you prefer a spruce top, try the G550. Not as common on ebay, but here's one from a good store for 229. http://www.theacousticmusician.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=10&products_id=424

 

 

Walden makes very nice guitars as well. But if you want a warranty be careful of the Ebay ones. Most are factory seconds which still play just fine, but carry no warranty coverage.

[babablowfish]

I am a big fan of the A&L. If you are looking for a guitar to leave in the office and take on trips you might want to stick with the laminate top rather than solid as the lam will be more resistant to weather, humidity, mishaps. What you lose in tone will be more than compensated for with not having to worry about it.

[AugTPD]

 

I am a big fan of the A&L. If you are looking for a guitar to leave in the office and take on trips you might want to stick with the laminate top rather than solid as the lam will be more resistant to weather, humidity, mishaps. What you lose in tone will be more than compensated for with not having to worry about it.

 

 

Good point, lam guitars are awesome if you don't want any worrysome upkeep.

[Broadus]

Baba does make a good point. I was thinking about a Yammie lam dread, but taking it on mission trips and singing with a small group outdoors makes the folk size more desirable. That's the big reason, as well as leaving it in my office, why I was looking at the A & L. If I were not concerned about the elements, I would jump on one of the Waldens.

 

Plus, it has a lot of positive reviews, and I'm not sure that the difference between an A & L solid top will have that much better sound.

 

So, I'm back to my original question: Is the A & L for some $200 as good as I can do with these purposes in mind? All informed opinions are appreciated.

 

Bill

[happy-man]

Baba does make a good point. I was thinking about a Yammie lam dread, but taking it on mission trips and singing with a small group outdoors makes the folk size more desirable. That's the big reason, as well as leaving it in my office, why I was looking at the A & L. If I were not concerned about the elements, I would jump on one of the Waldens. Plus, it has a lot of positive reviews, and I'm not sure that the difference between an A & L solid top will have that much better sound. So, I'm back to my original question: Is the A & L for some $200 as good as I can do with these purposes in mind? All informed opinions are appreciated. Bill

 

As a price point I got my Simon & Patrick (same manufacturer as A&L) solid top parlor new for $210 at a music store which had bought out the stock of another store. If you want to find a great deal, IMO you'll have to be patient. As much as I like my parlor (I did a thread on "everyone should have a parlor guitar) I would suggest trying out one of the A&L AMIs versus the Yammie or Washburn Folk before deciding. The parlor does have some since volume for its size, but you can't punch a big sound out of it. It doesn't handle a hard strum. Mine has no pick guard.

 

Just put new strings on my $75 eBay Washburn D10 lam and I'm pleased as punch. I'd take this guitar anywhere. But I waited weeks to snag the good eBay deal.

 

Scott O

[DonK]

Well, I'm hard pressed to think of a better option than the A&L in that price range for the purposes you've described. I think that's particularly true if you're buying online, because A&L is one of the few companies (Yamaha would be another) that offers a consistently good guitar at that price point. Most others are hit or miss. My son has a Fender GDP 100 like this one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=250168561069&Category=33024&_trksid=p3907.m29

 

I actually bought it for myself; I dropped into a favorite local store one day and it caught my eye. I don't even know how they came upon it, because while they sell Fender electrics, they don't carry the acoustic line. Anyway, I picked it up and started playing and was impressed at the sound given the price (it was $139) and the Fender pedigree. Normally I don't go near Fender acoustics, but this one surprised me. I knew it was all-laminate, and it had a thickish finish (but was pretty nonetheless), but it sounded much better than it had a right to, and played like butter. I ended up taking it home, and eventually it became my son's after he fell in love with, especially because of the size.

 

You might also consider keeping an eye out for something like this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/SEAGULL-CEDAR-TOP-PARLOR-GUITAR-CASE-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ290163547011

 

The cosmetic issues wouldn't bother me if I could get it for $199, but I'd be sure and ask about fret wear (and get pictures).

 

BTW Bill, better careful, this G.A.S. thing can get out of hand. Next you'll be telling yourself you need an electric for those Sundays when you want to a few bluesy gospel numbers...and the rationalizations will just keep on coming. Take it from one with lots of experience!

[Broadus]

 

As a price point I got my Simon & Patrick (same manufacturer as A&L) solid top parlor new for $210 at a music store which had bought out the stock of another store. If you want to find a great deal, IMO you'll have to be patient. As much as I like my parlor (I did a thread on "everyone should have a parlor guitar) I would suggest trying out one of the A&L AMIs versus the Yammie or Washburn Folk before deciding. The parlor does have some since volume for its size, but you can't punch a big sound out of it. It doesn't handle a hard strum. Mine has no pick guard. Just put new strings on my $75 eBay Washburn D10 lam and I'm pleased as punch. I'd take this guitar anywhere. But I waited weeks to snag the good eBay deal. Scott O

 

 

Scott,

 

I think you are the uncontested patient finder of good deals. Thanks for your advice.

 

Bill

[Broadus]

. . . You might also consider keeping an eye out for something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/SEAGULL-CEDAR-TOP-PARLOR-GUITAR-CASE-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ290163547011 The cosmetic issues wouldn't bother me if I could get it for $199, but I'd be sure and ask about fret wear (and get pictures). BTW Bill, better careful, this G.A.S. thing can get out of hand. Next you'll be telling yourself you need an electric for those Sundays when you want to a few bluesy gospel numbers...and the rationalizations will just keep on coming. Take it from one with lots of experience!

 

Hi Don,

 

I'm watching that parlor as well as a Seagull folk. You're quite right about G.A.S. and rationalization, though my congregation would have to be picked up from the floor if I did anything bluesy in worship. Right now, I think I'm safe with justifying this anticipated purchase with the office/mission trip logic (rationalization?). However, I suspect even better rationalizations can be had if pressed for future G.A.S. Then again, there's this word about "godliness with contentment is great gain." Right?

 

BTW, the Norman won't likely see a mission trip. No damp, outdoor work for it.

 

Bill

[happy-man]

 

... You might also consider keeping an eye out for something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/SEAGULL-CEDAR-TOP-PARLOR-GUITAR-CASE-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ290163547011

 

 

The Seagull, S&P and A&L are all made by Godin. I've never played the others, but before I bought mine I did a bit of asking around in forums and at stores and got the impression that if you can get your hands on any one of them you'll have a fair idea of what any of them are like. Pricing from lowest to highest is A&L, S&P Seagull. A&L all lam, S&P solid top, Seagull probably all wood.

 

Before I bought my parlor I emailed Godin which a question about what strings to use. They responded quickly and we exchanged a couple emails. They were very helpful.

Scott O

[Broadus]

Actually, the Seagull parlor and folk, at least the ones I'm looking at, are solid top and lam back and sides. The A&L is all lam, though there is a $30-more solid top version. The S&P's I've seen online are like the Seagull, solid top and lam back and sides.

 

I think you're right about overall quality of the Godin line. I have a Norman ST68 which Don gave me a fabulous deal on and it is a really sweet guitar.

 

Bill

[babablowfish]

 

The Seagull, S&P and A&L are all made by Godin. I've never played the others, but before I bought mine I did a bit of asking around in forums and at stores and got the impression that if you can get your hands on any one of them you'll have a fair idea of what any of them are like. Pricing from lowest to highest is A&L, S&P Seagull. A&L all lam, S&P solid top, Seagull probably all wood. Before I bought my parlor I emailed Godin which a question about what strings to use. They responded quickly and we exchanged a couple emails. They were very helpful. Scott O

 

 

A&L also makes a nice solid cedar top that sounds so nice. Not something I would use as a beater but thought I'd mention it.

[EvilTwin]

Baba does make a good point. I was thinking about a Yammie lam dread, but taking it on mission trips and singing with a small group outdoors makes the folk size more desirable. That's the big reason, as well as leaving it in my office, why I was looking at the A & L. If I were not concerned about the elements, I would jump on one of the Waldens. Plus, it has a lot of positive reviews, and I'm not sure that the difference between an A & L solid top will have that much better sound. So, I'm back to my original question: Is the A & L for some $200 as good as I can do with these purposes in mind? All informed opinions are appreciated. Bill

 

I have a Seagull S6+Folk that I love.

 

I played an all-lam A&L Folk back in college that was so good I almost bought it (even though I already have the "nicer" version). It was on sale for $179, and I've seen them sub-$200. If you can hold out for a sale, it might be worth it.

 

Anywho, A&L do laminates right. They'd be my choice if I was looking for a campfire guitar.

[Broadus]

I realize this contradicts what I believe to be my desire for a smaller guitar that is laminate, but these discontinued Washburns (WD9SW) are pretty tempting. 7/8 size, all solid wood, and $199 including gig bag. Sam Ash carries them for $329, but 8th Street Music has them for $219.95.

 

Model Name: WD9SW 3/4 Size Acoustic Guitar

Body: Solid sapele top, back and sides

Neck: Mahogany

Machine Heads: Gold-tone Grover 18:1 tuners

Fingerboard: Ebony

Frets: 20

Bridge: Ebony butterfly bridge

Hardware: Die-cast

Pickguard: Tortoise color

Case: Comes with gig bag.

 

Somebody tell me I'd be better off with a lam A & L folk, which I may very well be, but all solid wood . . . Actually, a Godin family folk is still where I'm leaning, but, as I said, this is tempting.

 

Now that I'm starting to think perhaps more rationally, I recognize that a company can make a laminate that sounds as good or better than another company that has a solid wood. Also, I've read tons of positive things about the A & L folk, but I cannot find anyone thus far on the web who has reviewed the Washburn WD9SW.

 

Bill

[drnihili]

That is a good deal. Personally I'd rather have the Washburn, but a fair bit of that is that I really can't stand A&L. I'd say the real question is how much do you need lam versus solid? If your work environment can be made guitar friendly, the Washburn looks great. If you need the laminate, then maybe the A&L.

 

Out of curiosity, have you played an A&L? They really are nothing like a Norman in sound or feel. I've really liked every Norman I've played, but A&L leaves me as cold as a KMart special. If you haven't played something in the A&L lineup, you probably should. Just to make sure that they are generally to your liking.

[Broadus]

 

That is a good deal. Personally I'd rather have the Washburn, but a fair bit of that is that I really can't stand A&L. I'd say the real question is how much do you need lam versus solid? If your work environment can be made guitar friendly, the Washburn looks great. If you need the laminate, then maybe the A&L. Out of curiosity, have you played an A&L? They really are nothing like a Norman in sound or feel. I've really liked every Norman I've played, but A&L leaves me as cold as a KMart special. If you haven't played something in the A&L lineup, you probably should. Just to make sure that they are generally to your liking.

 

 

You make a good point. I have never played an A & L, and I don't know of one close by. I've simply been going on what others have written, and that's been real positive. As I see it, my Norman will be my main guitar, but the folk-sized one will be at the office during the week and will be available to take places.

 

Concerning my office, outside of office hours the temperature in the summer will not rise above 80 degrees and during the winter will not go below 60. Is that too much variation for a solid wood guitar? Being in upstate SC, we don't have much in the way of humidity worries, one way or the other.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Bill

[happy-man]

 

Model Name: WD9SW 3/4 Size Acoustic Guitar Body: Solid sapele top, back and sides... Bill

 

 

I saw these also when I was looking on eBay. The reason I decided not to think about it is that I don't know what an all sapele guitar would sound like. I understand spruce and cedar tops, but I personally don't care for the sound of an all mahogany Martin D-15. The D-15 is really my only point of reference for a mahogany top, and sapele is suposedly similar.

 

Scott O

[happy-man]

 

...Out of curiosity, have you played an A&L? They really are nothing like a Norman in sound or feel. I've really liked every Norman I've played, but A&L leaves me as cold as a KMart special. If you haven't played something in the A&L lineup, you probably should. Just to make sure that they are generally to your liking.

 

 

I've played a couple of handfulls of A&L Dreads and had the same impression. And although I've never played an A&L AMI, from what I hear it is similar to the other Godin parlors, and these are totally different beasts.

 

Scott O

[JasonA]

 

I saw these also when I was looking on eBay. The reason I decided not to think about it is that I don't know what an all sapele guitar would sound like. I understand spruce and cedar tops, but I personally don't care for the sound of an all mahogany Martin D-15. The D-15 is really my only point of reference for a mahogany top, and sapele is suposedly similar.

 

 

I bought one of those WD9SW guitars from Ebay for

 

The Washburn actually has a very bright sound, which I would not have expected from an all-sapele guitar. Nice for fingerstyle and does surprisingly well being strummed, and the nut width is a little wider than 1-11/16 (somewhere around 1-23/32 if I remember correctly). It's not going to sound as nice as a bigger guitar, but I far prefer it to a Baby Taylor or LX Martin, which are the same size. It looks way cooler too. The cheesy pickguard came off very easily...

[Broadus]

 

I've played a couple of handfulls of A&L Dreads and had the same impression. And although I've never played an A&L AMI, from what I hear it is similar to the other Godin parlors, and these are totally different beasts. Scott O

 

 

Do I understand that your impression is that the A & L Ami is similar to the other Godin parlors but other A & L's are not similar to their Godin counterparts? What about the A & L Folk?

 

The parlor size may very well fit my needs better, especially to take somewhere. I wonder how much small a Godin-line parlor is than a Godin-line folk.

 

Bill

[Broadus]

Scott,

 

Any thoughts on this Seagull Folk?

 

Bill

[happy-man]

 

Any thoughts on this Seagull Folk?

 

 

I have no point of reference on a Seagull Folk, or any Godin or Washburn Folk guitar. I'd like to try some. If I was looking for what you say you are looking for, I'd try to get my hands on one of these folk guitars to try. They might do a better job as a campfire guitar than a parlor.

 

Scott O

[EvilTwin]

Scott, Any thoughts on this Seagull Folk ? Bill

 

That guitar has been "loved."

 

I have a Folk that is scarred up, too...and structurally, it's sound. I wouldn't worry about that too terribly much.

 

Check out the picture of the neck joint on that, though. The action looks a little high, and the fingerboard is curving down into the soundhole. That guitar needs to be humidified.