Luthier Quote Question

[Goominim]

So I wanted a copy of the 1934 Martin D-18 in nitro finish and he says $1600. Is that a fair quote?

[moctzal]

That's a very low price for a luthier made guitar.
Almost seems too low.
Have you played other guitars he's made?
(Red flag goes up in my head...)

[Freeman Keller]

Martin is making that guitar today, they call it the D-18 Authentic, and the list is $8000. I'd say you are getting a heck of a deal.

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=m&m=D-18%20Authentic%201937

Remember that a '34 would have bar frets, non adjustable tube truss rod, scalloped Adi top, and be made with hide glue (which is important). Make sure your will too.

[missedmyexit]

So I wanted a copy of the 1934 Martin D-18 in nitro finish and he says $1600. Is that a fair quote?

 

 

 

Did I read this right? Luthier hand made guitar at 1600? Assuming the Luthier is good at his profession and has good stock of wood I would say that is more then a fair quote.

[Freeman Keller]

I'm going to answer that question differently. Based on my very limited experince of building a very few guitars, I figure $500 for materials, another $100 for finishing stuff. It has been taking me about a month of part time work to build it - lets say 80-100 hours, and it takes me six weeks to put on a good nitro finish (say 18 coats on the top, 24 on the back and sides). Another 8 hours or so in setup). Now I'm not very efficient, so a good luthier ought to build it in half the time - lets say 50 or so hours. If he pays himself $15 an hour that would be $750 - a total $1350. That leaves 250 for profit, overhead, tools, shop, insurance....

A far more realistic price for a luthier built guitar with the hand craftsmanship to duplicate a 1934 D-18 would be a minimum of $3K and the street price of the D-18A of around $5K looks pretty reasonable.

Martin also says that there are only a few craftsmen in their plant that are qualified to build the Authentics (most of that is working with the hide glue). It is also interesting that CFM IV rationalized the price because he said they anticipate some warranty issues and they needed to cover that up front.

I've heard Martin's Richard Starkey play a D-18A, a GE and a plain old D-18 side by side - there most certainly was a difference.

Now if you really want to have fun with new old guitars, check out the D28 Authentic - thats right, $40000 (no I didn't put too many zeros on it) and the complete production run was presold.

[timmay8612]

I'd say that seems low. Quality tone woods can run that just for the blanks before they're cut out

[Goominim]

I'm going to have to talk to him and get more referrals. He teaches lutherie but it might not be premium tone woods. Just a rough copy of the D-18.

[Freeman Keller]

Just a rough copy of the D-18.

 

 

Well, the 1937-39 D-18 are the standard by which all hog dreads are judged. When you first said he was going to duplicate that you've set the bar pretty high. Now you've lowered it a lot.

 

A brand new D-18 lists at $2500, street will be pretty close to $15-1600. A StewMac hog dread kit is $370. A few rattle cans of nitro another 30. So it would be very possible to build a D-18 for the kind of price you have been quoted. Since he teaches lutherie why don't you build it under his direction.

[Goominim]

Well, the 1937-39 D-18 are the standard by which all hog dreads are judged. When you first said he was going to duplicate that you've set the bar pretty high. Now you've lowered it a lot. A brand new D-18 lists at $2500, street will be pretty close to $15-1600. A StewMac hog dread kit is $370. A few rattle cans of nitro another 30. So it would be very possible to build a D-18 for the kind of price you have been quoted. Since he teaches lutherie why don't you build it under his direction.

I would love to, but I live in an apartment. No workbench and tools. And I'm afraid of ending up with fire wood. I might look for another luthier that is closer.

[Freeman Keller]

I would love to, but I live in an apartment. No workbench and tools. And I'm afraid of ending up with fire wood. I might look for another luthier that is closer.

I just figured that if he teaches lutherie he must have either a shop that he teaches in or some sort of vocational school. That could be a win-win deal, the biggest problem for someone starting or wanting to build just one is putting together the shop (I bought about 500 worth of tools for my first and already had the band saw, router, etc). Also, a good instructor would help you avoid the mistakes that every new builder makes.

But very honestly, if he is willing to build you something resembling a D-18 and you are confident in his abilities, $1600 is a heck of a deal. Almost too good to be true, but I guess it is possible. Most hand built guitars start at twice that and go up from there.

[bjorn-fjord]

$1600 is crazy cheap. It takes me about 120 hours to build one of my "standard" guitars. Something as bare-bones as a D-18 might come in around 100 hours, best case scenario. This does not include finishing. I know a lot of luthiers and I don't know any that do it significantly quicker than I do. Most classical builders that I know need about 150 hours to complete an instrument.

Freeman, I'm impressed that you can build so quickly. What's your secret? Amphetamines?

[Freeman Keller]

Freeman, I'm impressed that you can build so quickly. What's your secret? Amphetamines?

 

 

My secret is out.

 

Actually that was just a scientific wild ass guess. Remember that I start with a kit so half the work is already done (bending sides, shaping the neck, making the fretboard) I fool around for a month or so after work and on weekends - so I was guessing 20 hours a week (this doesn't count the hours I lay awake at night). Finishing takes for ever - another month and a half at least. And all the little finishing touches - setup and ramping the bridge and all of that - heck, I know I have a full saturday in just making the saddle on the 12 string. I would often find myself in the shop at 11:00 at night with a cold cup of coffee, knowing I had to be in the salt mines at 7 the next morning. So maybe 100 to put it together, another 100 to finish, and more to complete it - and I could only figure that you guys must do it faster.

 

But really, I've never kept track - I was just trying to support what you have just said - a good luthier probably doesn't make nearly enough for the hours (and love) that he puts into a guitar and our poster would be getting a tremendous deal.

 

Want me to introduce you to my source?

[bjorn-fjord]

Want me to introduce you to my source?

Yeah sure! Let's meet at the Peace Arch, there shouldn't be too many cops around there.

[Freeman Keller]

Yeah sure! Let's meet at the Peace Arch, there shouldn't be too many cops around there.

Let me find my passport. By the way, what the heck are you guys doing with your dollar at parity? I just sent a check off to Revelstoke for my ski vacation. Ouch!

[bjorn-fjord]

Let me find my passport. By the way, what the heck are you guys doing with your dollar at parity? I just sent a check off to Revelstoke for my ski vacation. Ouch!

 

 

I know, it's crazy. The general consensus up here is that dollar parity is a good thing but the entire Canadian manufacturing base is (including me) is pretty much dependent on a weaker Canadian dollar so a lot of folks are feeling the squeeze. 4 or 5 years ago our buck was worth 65 cents US. My guitars were a bargain!