This might make some of you mad !

[Tony Burns]

I've been noticing this alot lately when Im out and about Guitar shopping or just in general looking and having fun , visiting Music stores and GC . ive noticed as a whole most guitars have a better sound and are set up better than they've ever been - but their Craftmanship as well as cutting corners on Material quality is in the Crapper - Especially when it comes to Guild and Gibson - not as much on Martin , but ive seen some things even with Martin they wouldnt of done 20 years ago . I was interested in buying a Guild F-50 ( i own a 1971 Guild D-55 which is a killer Guitar ) and besides the F-50's wide and uneven spruce sound board -plus dark streaks of color in the top grain and its low grade Maple figured back and sides was a real turn off -it had a nice sound - which is whats more important , but to me the beauty of a well executed instrument also adds to the enjoyment of the play . ive honestly seen better maple at my local hardwood seller at a bout 5 bucks a board foot , (that i bought for some winter projects ) Are our expectations of quality so low that most guitarists dont know the difference or dont care . I know its all about profits with these manufacturers but their should be a point where they put better quality materials in their products insead of just spitting them out as fast as they can . This Guild thou nice sounding would never of been made 30 years ago - as well as alot of other guitars ive seen over the past couple of years . Its understandable to me why alot of you folks are buying Chinese guitars -

[Etienne Rambert]

Tony Burns: Is yew an American feller or sump'n?

--

I was at Guitar Emporium in Kentucky yesterday. They used to carry Guilds. In fact, they are mentioned in Hans Moust's book. They stopped carrying them during the Corona era. But the owner had high hopes for Tacoma-built Guilds.

 

I think it's too early to say yet how the Tacomas will fare. I love Guilds. But not enough to lie about their quality. That's why I look forward to playing a Tacoma D-55 this trip. I haven't played a Tacoma yet. I've played Coronas, Hobokens & Westerlys though.

 

The biggest competitor Guild will have in the future is GAD. If the Tacoma Guilds don't sound like Westerly Guilds, then the future of Guild is across the Pacific.

 

I agree about Martin. The Martin 15 series changed my thinking about Martin guitars. They sound like old Westerly D-25's from the late 60's & early 70's. That's a high compliment.

[Tony Burns]

 

Tony Burns: Is yew an American feller or sump'n? -- I was at Guitar Emporium in Kentucky yesterday. They used to carry Guilds. In fact, they are mentioned in Hans Moust's book. They stopped carrying them during the Corona era. But the owner had high hopes for Tacoma-built Guilds. I think it's too early to say yet how the Tacomas will fare. I love Guilds. But not enough to lie about their quality. That's why I look forward to playing a Tacoma D-55 this trip. I haven't played a Tacoma yet. I've played Coronas, Hobokens & Westerlys though. The biggest competitor Guild will have in the future is GAD. If the Tacoma Guilds don't sound like Westerly Guilds, then the future of Guild is across the Pacific. I agree about Martin. The Martin 15 series changed my thinking about Martin guitars. They sound like old Westerly D-25's from the late 60's & early 70's. That's a high compliment.

 

 

 

Marcellis , that first part is kind of a slam - but ill do my best to take it in good fun - I think their trying to cut corners now a days -- i know your a big fan of the D-55 ( as am i ) but their is no camparison to quality back then to now --My only concern over Gad guilds ( which ive heard are made in the same place as the blueridge ) is that they do not have the track record and most players are hesitant about them - The Epiphone Masterbuilts are in about the same boat and according to two US music stores ive talked to recently do not sell as well as they should - because of the Epiphone reputation of low to mid quality ( Before Gibson bought the company Epiphone was one of the worlds finest names and quality - Its Epi workers that first started the Guild co. ) American made guitars have one of the highest reputations in the world when it comes to sound and quality - but its really been slipping lately - Peace !

[Etienne Rambert]

Sorry. Not meant to be a slam. I meant it as a joke. Someone asked me that Q once. It is a question for which it's hard to imagine someone answering "no".

[Broadus]

Tony,

 

My biggest agitation was trying to flick your avatar off my screen.

 

Bill

[Hamhand]

Thanks for the discussion guys. It prompted me to get out my D-55 (Tacoma) and play it. The guitar is nothing but awesome. It is so perfect it looks fake. (huh?). Tacoma Guilds I have played have all sounded great. Just .02 worth. I don't understand how it's made that can make it vibrate my insides when I play it but, I love the craftsmanship.

[fatback]

 

Marcellis , that first part is kind of a slam - but ill do my best to take it in good fun - I think their trying to cut corners now a days -- i know your a big fan of the D-55 ( as am i ) but their is no camparison to quality back then to now --My only concern over Gad guilds ( which ive heard are made in the same place as the blueridge ) is that they do not have the track record and most players are hesitant about them - The Epiphone Masterbuilts are in about the same boat and according to two US music stores ive talked to recently do not sell as well as they should - because of the Epiphone reputation of low to mid quality ( Before Gibson bought the company Epiphone was one of the worlds finest names and quality - Its Epi workers that first started the Guild co. ) American made guitars have one of the highest reputations in the world when it comes to sound and quality - but its really been slipping lately - Peace !

 

 

I asked my local guitar store if they would be stocking Epiphone Master Biltz and his answer was much the same as you were given above. The price of them in the UK makes them far more costly than the brand reputation can sustain.

 

Phil

[garthman]

Hope I don't offend you citizens of the good old US of A but I have always thought that US made guitars are shockingly over-priced.

[garthman]

 

In comparison to what?

 

 

In comparison to many MIJ and MIK guitars that are of equal quality at around 1/4 to 1/3 of the price. No doubt this will attributed to the difference in labour costs but I often wonder if this is the whole truth. But then I suppose I'm an old cynic.

[garthman]

My Crafter (MIK) cost me ~

[Etienne Rambert]

I agree. Many US-made guitars are over-priced. However, you can buy a Martin 00 & 000 15 series for about 100 pounds more than you paid for your Crafter.

 

Guilds are less over-priced than a lot of other US brands. A D-55 for $2K is very competitive to Gibson, Larrivee, et al. A D-40 Bluegrass Jubilee for around $1.2K is very competitive with even Guild GAD's & Epi's.

 

Martin has its own pricing system, which I don't understand. That D-28 reissue is OTOH.

 

OTOH, a Martin 000 15 series sells new for

 

Living in the Far East, I know that name-brand guitars are too expensive for what you get. But what can I say? I like Guilds.

 

The price differentials that exist today, won't last. The price ranges of Asian, North American and Euro guitars will close considerably in the years to come. Martin (DX), Guild (GAD) & Gibson (Epi's) have already seen it coming.

 

But Tony Burns' thread is about quality, not price. I think the quality differential will close too. Asian guitars will get better. US guitar companies will have to improve too. They are facing competition not only from Asia, but from small domestic luthiers as well.

 

Competition is good. Martins are better today because competitors were making them look bad a couple of decades ago. Gibson doesn't seem to have gotten the message yet. I think the jury is still out on Guild.

[Etienne Rambert]

The USD is at an all-time low relative to European & Japanese currencies. That should make US-made guitars less expensive to European & Japanese buyers today.

--

Tony Burns:

"I was interested in buying a Guild F-50 ( i own a 1971 Guild D-55 which is a killer Guitar ) and besides the F-50's wide and uneven spruce sound board -plus dark streaks of color in the top grain and its low grade Maple figured back and sides was a real turn off -it had a nice sound - which is whats more important , but to me the beauty of a well executed instrument also adds to the enjoyment of the play ."

 

 

If the Guild sounds like a Guild - that's good news. But I get your point. That's why the jury is still out on Tacoma Guilds. Everything I have read shows me that the GAD's sound like Guilds too. So...your expectation of quality execution in a US-made Guild becomes more important. If Tacoma can't reach that level - all Guilds will eventually be GAD's.

[Simon76]

Of course there is also resell value to concider.

[riffmeister]

I've been noticing this alot lately when Im out and about Guitar shopping or just in general looking and having fun , visiting Music stores and GC . ive noticed as a whole most guitars have a better sound and are set up better than they've ever been - but their Craftmanship as well as cutting corners on Material quality is in the Crapper - Especially when it comes to Guild and Gibson - not as much on Martin , but ive seen some things even with Martin they wouldnt of done 20 years ago . I was interested in buying a Guild F-50 ( i own a 1971 Guild D-55 which is a killer Guitar ) and besides the F-50's wide and uneven spruce sound board -plus dark streaks of color in the top grain and its low grade Maple figured back and sides was a real turn off -it had a nice sound - which is whats more important , but to me the beauty of a well executed instrument also adds to the enjoyment of the play . ive honestly seen better maple at my local hardwood seller at a bout 5 bucks a board foot , (that i bought for some winter projects ) Are our expectations of quality so low that most guitarists dont know the difference or dont care . I know its all about profits with these manufacturers but their should be a point where they put better quality materials in their products insead of just spitting them out as fast as they can . This Guild thou nice sounding would never of been made 30 years ago - as well as alot of other guitars ive seen over the past couple of years . Its understandable to me why alot of you folks are buying Chinese guitars -

 

 

Bob Dylan has the right frame of mind on this issue:

 

the times they are a changin'.......

 

.

[Hudman]

Someone mentioned US made Larrivee guitars for $700. Those are 03 Series made in Canada. The US made Larrivee's are closer to $1300.

 

I guess I must be lucky, because I have never experienced the infamous Gibson qualitiy issues. I like the Songwriter Deluxe, the J-45 and the Southern Jumbo. They have their own distinct tone and feel. I give them credit for not trying to copy Martin.

 

I have been very impressed with the Guilds I have played too.

[garthman]

 

You'll never convince me of the "equal quality" of MIJ & MIK acoustics in comparison to any top end American acoustics, including Gibson (who I don't happen to care for). Yes, they are good for their price, but they are not, and never will be "equal". Mass produced acoustics in a Pac-Rim country will NEVER compete in tone, build quality, and sheer volume to any "brand" name builders in the USA, Germany, or Canada.

 

 

OK. You win. How could these poor natives ever aspire to match the craftsmanship of we civilized Westerners.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUy9xbnun6Q

 

Drink a few beers, lad, loosen up.

[silmaneero]

 

I've quit digging in this thread. The instigator of the MIK, MIJ vs. American made acoustics being of the same quality for less money, is the same instigator that states that there is NO difference in tonality of different woods used to make electric guitars...it's all P/U's. I can't and won't continue to feed the fire. You either get it, or you don't, it's that simple, and you are neither wrong or right with your opinion. However, some can tell the differences.

 

I might be wrong, but aren't Bert Jansch's current guitars all Japanese-made Yamahas? They don't seem to suck much.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

 

I agree. Many US-made guitars are over-priced. However, you can buy a Martin 00 & 000 15 series for about 100 pounds more than you paid for your Crafter. Guilds are less over-priced than a lot of other US brands. A D-55 for $2K is very competitive to Gibson, Larrivee, et al. A D-40 Bluegrass Jubilee for around $1.2K is very competitive with even Guild GAD's & Epi's. Martin has its own pricing system, which I don't understand. That D-28 reissue is OTOH. OTOH, a Martin 000 15 series sells new for Living in the Far East, I know that name-brand guitars are too expensive for what you get. But what can I say? I like Guilds. The price differentials that exist today, won't last. The price ranges of Asian, North American and Euro guitars will close considerably in the years to come. Martin (DX), Guild (GAD) & Gibson (Epi's) have already seen it coming. But Tony Burns' thread is about quality, not price. I think the quality differential will close too. Asian guitars will get better. US guitar companies will have to improve too. They are facing competition not only from Asia, but from small domestic luthiers as well. Competition is good. Martins are better today because competitors were making them look bad a couple of decades ago. Gibson doesn't seem to have gotten the message yet. I think the jury is still out on Guild.

 

 

I have a new Martin 000-15 and before purchasing it I tried out a lot of guitars...even Crafters and the little Martin was the sure winner. I also bought a Taylor 114 and even the non Taylor fans I know admit that it's a nice sounding and playing guitar. I must admit I still prefered the Taylor 114 over any Asian made acoustic steel string guitars in the same price range I tried out.

 

YMMV...

 

OGP

[Etienne Rambert]

I haven't heard a Pac-Rim guitar that had a sound that impressed me as much as the Martin 15 series guitars. Martin really nailed it on that one.

 

But I haven't played any GADs yet. I suspect the GAD D-25 will sound a lot like the Martin 15 series.

[C70man]

 

OK. You win. How could these poor natives ever aspire to match the craftsmanship of we civilized Westerners. Drink a few beers, lad, loosen up.

 

 

I don't want to become political here... but

 

The Japanese have been the best imitators of product in the world. They know how to make things too. (ie...automobiles)

 

Chinese, Koreans, does it really matter? Who can't be taught how to make something? And how to make it right.

 

My problem lies more with .04 labor and civil liberty issues. What scares me most is what the USA is doing to itself and others. I would venture to say that in the near future, The entire work ethic and value system will become what our political system has....a cesspool.

 

I have mentioned before that I have a hard time supporting guitars made in foreign countries, regardless of who's ownership supervises production. I just don't believe in supporting a political system that treats people like animals. Kind of like the business models of Nike, Walmart, etc.

 

That being said, the quality of fine instruments is based on the quality of materials available. So whoever has the materials, will in my opinion have the abilily to produce the best product. Will I be able to afford it? Doubtful. So here we are. I love Guilds, always have. Love Gibsons, and Martins too. Wish I could own some of all of them. As far as great guitars go, who short of a luthier can truly "see" the difference. Some can hear it, but then, who's the one playing it? I have seen some really nice guitars of recent build. Typically I let my ears and fingers do the judging. And who doesnt like the looks of a Ibanez or a Dean? Come on, be honest. Some of them look really cool.

 

But, I am still shopping for that "used guitar" that best fills my hearts, hands and ears desires. I'm no hurry, I have a 36 year old guitar that I bought new that in most respects fills that current need. Luckily, there are plenty of "vintage" guitars out there to choose from.