Dell'Arte Pigalle vs. Gitane D-255

[simplygoodmusic]

Hey there

 

Ok, I know this is more or less the third thread I post asking about guitar models, but I wanna make an informed decision.

 

As soon as I am done getting rid of my electric guitar amp and pedals (good riddance!), I will be looking at purchasing a new git.

 

I'm still torn between getting a guitar adapt for fingerstyle (such as a Larrivee L or even an OM), and getting a gypsy jazz guitar, but I think that I might go for the second option.

 

So, right now, I am torn between the two guitars mentioned in the title.

 

I've decided to go for a "petite bouche" simply because the sound appeals to me more, but I still don

[Stackabones]

I have the Gitane D-500 and I love it. A guy I know has a Dell'Arte, but I haven't had a chance to play it yet.

 

Way below your budget, but have you checked out the Gitane Cigano series? The GJ-10 is a petite bouche and I've heard some pretty good reviews.

 

Also, have you checked the forums over at djangobooks.com? While you may get a few responses here, I'd think that you'd have better luck in that community.

[simplygoodmusic]

I do know of Djangobooks and the forum, but I was hoping to first ask where I know the people a little better...

 

I know that there aren't as many gypsy jazz fanatics here, but at least I know who I am dealing with.

 

I'll post there as well though.

 

I don't know the cigano that well, though I've heard good things. But I've also heard that in the gypsy jazz world, its a "you get what you pay for" situation. I'd liked to be proven wrong...the cheaper, the better, there is no doubt about that.

[Stackabones]

But I've also heard that in the gypsy jazz world, its a "you get what you pay for" situation. I'd liked to be proven wrong...the cheaper, the better, there is no doubt about that.

 

It's funny how certain aspects of gypsy culture can develop into a very lucrative enterprise for some folks, but not the gypsies.

 

There's a similar attitude in the ukulele market. "Budget" for some of those folks means around $500.

 

I think that whole "you get what you pay for" attitude must come from someone who has never haggled.

[Stackabones]

By the way, any gypsy jazz guitar dealers in Rome? How's the scene?

[simplygoodmusic]

Instrument wise, it

[simplygoodmusic]

I noticed that there where several threads on djangobooks.com, dated two months back at the most, saying that imported Dell'Artes aren't available...leading me to think that this is a very new line, which would explain the lack of information on the web.

[Stackabones]

I don't know if it

[simplygoodmusic]

I always seem to forget that. You are bloody big!

 

I am an Israeli who lives in Italy... which means I am not used to anything that vast.

 

I think my heart is leaning towards the Dell'Arte. For no reason, I must admit. The only side by side review I found of the two was a short two line comment on youtube...how very very trustworthy:lol:

[Stackabones]

I think my heart is leaning towards the Dell'Arte.

 

Go with your heart.

 

Then post pics and clips!!!

 

[mister natural]

FWIW - I played a Cigano recently in a shop & thought it was very well made with terrific tone.

 

This link is to one of the best shops in the Northern US for acoustic guitars. You might inquire as to shipping to Rome (see your earlier comment about the exchange rate . . . )

 

http://elderly.com/search/elderly?terms=gypsy+guitar

 

Cin Cin !

[simplygoodmusic]

Cheers.

 

That was actually the site I was refering to. Thanks for noticing it.

 

I may well have it sent to a friend, and have the guitar brought here the next time he comes, which would save a lot on everything.

 

I know one onle store which sells it from germany, but it costs about 650 euro...compared to the 500 euro it costs from elderly (750 dollars). With Taxes and shipping it wouldn't be worth it, though, unless I had it brought over.

 

I'm stilling considering the cigano though, don't think what you say just goes right by me... until the money is sent, nothing is set in stone. But I think the Dell'Arte is the way I'll go.

[simplygoodmusic]

I've actually had a complete change of heart, and decided that I want a D hole.

I thought about the more standard scale length, the type of sound, and what I really needed myself. And I figured the D hole is the answer.

 

Lucky for me the "django" Dell'Arte series (which is the imports) also includes the "hommage" which is a D hole. I'm gonna go for that now.

 

Just gotta wait for the amp buyer to get a move on.

 

And by the way, I've had a thread up in Django Books for a day now, and not a single response.

 

Just goes to show I guess, this forum is the way to go.

[Pascal]

The Djangobooks forum tends to be slower than this place. Give them some time (if you can wait), and then maybe.... unless they all consider you should have used the search function

 

 

Me, I can't really help you, haven't played these guitars...

[EvilTwin]

Hmm, I hadn't even heard about Dell'Arte making the "Pigalle" guitars. Very interesting.

 

Even if you've already made your decision, I'd recommend trying out Cordoba's "Gitano" guitars. They are unbelievable for $400 (or less), and are just worth playing to say that you've done so.

 

The "grande bouche" guitars are underrated, IMO. Yes, Django played the oval hole guitars, and they project out into an audience...but there's something to be said for that huge tone a D-hole makes (that you hear better by being right on top of).

[simplygoodmusic]

I can wait, worry not. I just hope the dollar can. Either way, I searched in djangobooks, and though one or two threads alluded to the Dell'Arte, the "django" series has only been out a month or so. I don't expect too many answers.

 

Where would I find the Cordobas? Again, although I'd love to spend less, I have nowhere to try these things out. So I can't compare.

 

I agree about the D hole and oval hole, E.T. I don't know what I was thinking, to be honest.

[EvilTwin]

I can wait, worry not. I just hope the dollar can. Either way, I searched in djangobooks, and though one or two threads alluded to the Dell'Arte, the "django" series has only been out a month or so. I don't expect too many answers. Where would I find the Cordobas? Again, although I'd love to spend less, I have nowhere to try these things out. So I can't compare. I agree about the D hole and oval hole, E.T. I don't know what I was thinking, to be honest.

 

I honestly don't know where you could find the Cordoba's overseas. I got mine at a Guitar Center here in the States. I just checked their Web site, and for international dealers, they only have three listed (one in Germany, one in Japan, one in Australia). That's pretty strange, as I've heard they're supposed to be made in Spain and Portugal.

 

Here's their D-5:

http://www.cordobaguitars.com/product.aspx?q=27&c=6

 

The temptation for the oval hole guitars is totally understandable. I bought one myself (Cordoba O-5). In retrospect, I wish that I'd gotten the D-hole, but I don't regret the purchase, either.

 

You can get a pretty good gypsy jazz guitar for under a grand right now. That wasn't the case a few years ago. But there's been renewed interest in the music, and in Django, so we're fortunate to be living through a sort of golden age for cheap Selmer copies.

 

Hell, John Jorgenson recorded a lot of "Franco-Americain Swing" with one of these:

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gitane-DG250M-Selmer-Style-Jazz-Guitar?sku=516914

 

Happy hunting!

[Verne Andru]

I've been looking at GJ boxes for a while and have tried a few and found there are big differences between them that are not necessarily price related.

 

I've tried the Aria and didn't like the sound much - pretty "constricted." I also tried a Tuxedo Gitane [that's the black one] and found it sounded about the same as the Aria even though it was twice the price.

 

One local shop had both a Gitane 255 petite bouche and a Cigano grand bouche, so I was able to do an A/B in the same room for the first time. Fit and finish on the Gitane was superb - like a fine limousine. Love the ebony board and longer scale. Sounds great as well and played extremely well for finger-stye. While the Cigano wasn't as well appointed and didn't feel as luxurious as the Gitane, it was no slouch and I actually liked the way it sounded better - just a fuller, bigger sound.

 

I'm still shopping and am in no hurry. You really have to try before you buy to get one that speaks to you. Tough when you have to purchase something like an acoustic blind.

[simplygoodmusic]

 

and found it sounded about the same as the Aria even though it was twice the price. One local shop had both a Gitane 255 petite bouche and a Cigano grand bouche, so I was able to do an A/B in the same room for the first time. Fit and finish on the Gitane was superb - like a fine limousine. Love the ebony board and longer scale. Sounds great as well and played extremely well for finger-stye. While the Cigano wasn't as well appointed and didn't feel as luxurious as the Gitane, it was no slouch and I actually liked the way it sounded better - just a fuller, bigger sound. I'm still shopping and am in no hurry. You really have to try before you buy to get one that speaks to you. Tough when you have to purchase something like an acoustic blind.

 

 

I have tried the Aria as well, and I agree it didn't do much for me. It was a long time ago though, and before I knew the gypsy technique.

 

It sounds to me like the difference between the Cigano and the Gitane came mostly from the difference between the D hole and the oval hole, and less from the different companies. Am I wrong?

 

And you should know... I would really try them if I could.

 

Now that I've decided to go for the "grande bouche", though, I might try that local used D-500. Its just that I'll have nothing to compare with.

[Verne Andru]

Gitane and Cigano are both sold by Saga and I wouldn't be surprised if they are coming out of the same factory. Would be nice to do an A/B with a grande bouch Gitane and Cigano - I suspect the difference is primarily cosmetic.

 

My fave GJ box so far is the DG-250M. With the CDN dollar doing so well, I can get one of those out of the US for the same $ I'd pay for a Cigano locally. I suspect into the new year the deals will look even better for those with some cash to spend.

[simplygoodmusic]

 

Gitane and Cigano are both sold by Saga and I wouldn't be surprised if they are coming out of the same factory. Would be nice to do an A/B with a grande bouch Gitane and Cigano - I suspect the difference is primarily cosmetic. My fave GJ box so far is the DG-250M. With the CDN dollar doing so well, I can get one of those out of the US for the same $ I'd pay for a Cigano locally. I suspect into the new year the deals will look even better for those with some cash to spend.

 

 

I must admit, I've never been a big fan of the petite bouche maple guitars. Maybe its just the sound clips I've heard, but I never liked their sound.

[EvilTwin]

 

I must admit, I've never been a big fan of the petite bouche maple guitars. Maybe its just the sound clips I've heard, but I never liked their sound.

 

 

I'd say they're an acquired taste. I don't think they're the best for recording (that wood choice makes a trebly sounding guitar even more trebly), but if you want to cut across a room in an acoustic jam, they're pretty hard to beat.

 

http://www.sagamusic.com/article.asp?ID=52

"My true test of a guitar is if I want to keep playing it, and this guitar passed with flying colors. I even took it with me to Samois (the big Django festival in France) where I played it on a Ferris Wheel in Paris, in the campgrounds near the festival, in the airport in NYC, and it held it's own in many a jam session, with a lead tone audible over as many as 8 rhythm guitars all playing at once!"

--John Jorgenson

[simplygoodmusic]

Despite it probably a very very very cool experience, I'm hardly gonna get to play with 8 gypsy guitarists at the same time...I'm having a tough time finding one!

[Verne Andru]

Funny thing, those maple bodies - every time I've picked up an acoustic and been floored by the sound it's had a maple back and sides. Just huge tone and projection. 2 come to mind - a Larrivee and a custom built by a local luthier. Both guitars were pushing $3000 mind you.

 

FWIW the 250M has laminate sides and back and the maple is just a decorative cap that looks stunning IMHO.

[EvilTwin]

Despite it probably a very very very cool experience, I'm hardly gonna get to play with 8 gypsy guitarists at the same time...I'm having a tough time finding one!

 

Hey, some of Django's most famous work was done with a trio -- him, a rhythm player and upright bass (I think "I'll See You in My Dreams" was a trio recording).

 

Unless you're at a Django festival, I doubt you'll find more than one or two gypsy players.

 

Hell, I'd be humbled by playing with some truly experienced gypsy jazz players, period. I love the music, admire the technique, bought the right guitar to play it...but I'll always be a "gadjo."