playing ability plateau

[timmay8612]

So I duno if I've ever fully introduced myself, even though I've posted around a bit lately. For the record, name's Tim. I've been playing for 7 years this Christmas. I'm self taught, and although I have a musical background before guitar (4 years of viola) any theoretical knowledge of music has mostly gone by the wayside. All that to say, I'm self-taught on guitar.

 

The story of my playing experience has always been getting a ton better in fits and spurts for a short time, and then staying the same for a long time instead of steadily improving. I'd really like to take my playing to the next level, but I'm not really sure where to start. I play frequently in church, and praise music is beyond soul crushingly boring for me. I can noodle around with some leads extremely easily in any of the keys common to that type of music, and make up parts on the fly all the time.

 

Moral of the story, how do I get from "good church player" to going down the acoustic footsteps of Pat Metheny/Phil Keaggy etc. Big shoes I know, I'm not asking for miracles, just a start. Thanks everybody, you're a fantastic resource and group of musicians!

[totamus]

Timmay, I also am self taught, and after many years have become a good guitarist. As I look back I realize that the journey would have been much shorter if I had done a few things differently.

 

Here is what I believe a self taught musician needs to do. Take this for what it is, just one mans opinion:

 

1) learn scales (no kiddin, they are quite valuable).

Study major and minor scales. The guitar loves minor scales

 

2) play with other people, preferably who are better than you

 

3) invest in DVD training, but be picky - one good DVD is worth 100 crappy ones. I like to purchase dvds that have songs I like and are taught by the artist that I listen to, not a generic "learn the guitar" dvd

 

4) learn another instrument. I learned banjo (am pretty good at it now) and it has helped my guitar playing immensely. Any instrument helps because you need to transpose things in your mind as you go from one instrument to another. This forces an understanding of the fretboard of both instruments. I would recommend a mandolin or a banjo.

 

5) when you realize you are in a rut, walk away for a while, let your head clear out. I have put my guitar away for as much as a couple of months (and it killed me). When I picked it up again, everything was fresh.

 

6) play outside of your box. If you are into Jazz, try some bluegrass, or blues, or rock. Try different tunings, experiment with finger picking style, slides, etc

 

7) practice, practice, practice (I look forward to practice...)

 

8) Dont be afraid to put your own spin on a song. I love personal interpretations, they can be better than the original.

 

good luck

[Freeman Keller]

First thing, Tim, you have been well noticed in the forum - but here is a slightly belated welcome. Secondly, we all plateau all the time. I've been noodling around with these things for almost fourty years now and I'm constantly finding myself in a little box playing the same thing over and over. Here are a few things that seem to help

1 - play with someone else, particularly if she plays something slightly different. I'm mostly a bluesy style finger picker but every now and then I pick up a flat pick and chord along with a pickup bluegrass group. Last winter on a ski trip I would chord for a singer songwriter friend, he would play some electric style leads on my 12 bar blues progressions.

2 - Tune your guitar differently, try some slide, fingerpick if you only strum - try another way to play the git. I would assume your P&W stuff is mostly strumming while you sing - try a little solo riff or put down the pick and do it Travis style.

3 - now the biggie - buy a dvd or video of something you want to learn and sit down in front of the tv every night. I just flipped one of my resonators on its back and put a nut extender in it and I'm trying to learn some lap style. I built a mandolin last year and bought a couple of dvd's to learn to play it. I don't know if Keaggy has any instructional materials buy Juber and Preston Reed and similar players do - dive into one of those.

4 - take a lesson, preferably a private one, from someone who can teach you something you want to learn. I had taken a few group seminars with the great instructor Mark Hanson (Accent on Music) and one day I told him I wanted to learn a particular Kottke song as well as Ashokan Farewell. He said "give me a week to work it up and come over for a 2 hour lesson". Those songs are part of my little collection now.

5 - hang out with a bunch of yayhoos like HCAG. This gang will inspire and frustrate you, and often make you just glad to sit down and play. Go to the Annex and listen to all the wonderful sounds that an acoustic guitar can make. Then move on to the next plateau....

[missedmyexit]

I saw somewhere I believe in reference to poker actually, that when most people

learn something there path looks like and inverted Sideways and backward "S"

 

 

 

____

/

/

/

____A___/

/

/

/

__-- /

 

Most people start learning slow but once they get a taste practice often. Then they get to a place where they are pretty good or "Decent" at the skill and don't have the desire to "push on". 75% of guitarist are probably on the "A" line of the diagram. (I am). That all being when I hit submit I'll know if the plain text diagram shows up as intended because if it doesn't this whole post is going to look like the rambling of a madman.

 

EDIT: Yep it didn't register my spaces, so ramblin of a madman it is. Think of a gentle upward hill that levels off for a while then gets steeper... The "A" should be in the middle of the level off.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

Hi Tim;

My experience has lead me to believe that it's never too late to keep getting better or to learn music standard music notation and theory. I too am a completely self taught guitarist of 32 years. Over the years I have been able to play a lot of gigs with just this ability but like yourself I felt there was something lacking. Recently I have turned to studying fingerstyle and particularly classical guitar and standard notation and believe it or not I am actually getting better. I am planning on taking a few lessons just to have my technique looked at by a teacher but on my own I have been able to figure out music notation and one piece of music already. I am now working on my second classical piece. I practice 2-3 hours a day.

My eventual goal is to become a good enough music reader and fingerstyle player to not have to sing anymore and just focus on guitar instrumental music. I also want to make make myself a better musician and to make a better living as a musician.

Just set a goal and go for it...oh yeah and don't forget to practice

[EvilTwin]

Well hello, Tim. Nice to have you here.

I think everyone gets to a sort of peak, ability-wise (heck, Eric Clapton hasn't really changed that much since 1966). From then on, it's basically about note selection, timing and being tasteful -- in short, developing "your style."

(One could argue that we're defined as much by our limitations as we are by our raw ability/talent...)

I think the best way to truly improve your playing is to play with other musicians who push you. A good teacher can also take you further (but I think it really depends on the teacher).

What other music are you interested in? Sometimes looking outside of your normal box can broaden your horizons, so to speak. I never even thought of looking outside of blues/rock until I heard Django.

[timmay8612]

Thanks for the warm response guys. As far as other music I'm into, I started with blues, listened to a lot of Eric Clapton, BB King, etc. From there things kinda went on a turn to the metal world, got tired of that in a hurry. I've always been into rock music, everything from Jimi to Foo Fighters. Just recently started liking Jazz quite a bit, I really dig Pat Metheny's acoustic work as well as a couple Pat Martino records which are fantastic. Miles Davis is a stud (naturally) so I listen to him a fair amount. I like what I've heard of Charlie Haden, guy's a mean bass player. So pretty much any guitar music that isn't country/bluegrass I'm into, some less than others.

As far as playing with people better than me, thats kind of a problem. Not to sound conceited, but I don't know anybody better than me! That is, personally, obviously I don't have to go far on you tube to find anybody better than me. I also can't wait to finish college so I can devote some real time to this thing I've shrank from about 1-2 hours every day to less than 6 hours a week practice time. Yuck!

[Hudman]

Tim,

I've been playing guitar for more than 20 years. I played electric guitar exclusively the first 20 years. I noticed the biggest jump in skill level early on (within the first 5 years). Early on I had a lot of free time to practice (I started playing when I was 14 years old). In addition, I played in 2 bands in my teens. Playing in the bands lead to a drastic improvement in my skill level. As I got older, I had less and less time to play guitar. Since then it has been a much slower progression. I switched over to mainly acoustic about 3 years ago. Now I play acoustic guitar exclusively. I am a better acoustic player now than I was 3 years ago, but I have a long way to go to get where I want to be.

 

I realized a long time ago that I will never be a great guitarist. It just doesn't come as easy to me as it does some folks. I also don't approach playing seriously enough to be great. I equate guitar playing to sports. I can practice throwing a football everyday, but I would never be as good as Brett Favre (or any other NFL QB). Pat Metheny/Phil Keaggy and others are the Brett Favres of their craft.

[mister natural]

I'm a big believer in lessons

As EvilTwin points out, finding a good one is problematic depending on where you live and how much time you're able to devote to study

Freeman - did you just call me a "Yayhoo" ?

:=)

[timmay8612]

A good point Hudman, I could never dream of being as good as those guys, however, I wouldn't mind being as good as the Packers third string QB, see what I mean? I mean, lets be honest, those guys are a rare breed of exponentially talented musicians, they don't come around real often.

[C70man]

if you didnt, you wouldnt be human....
like mentioned above......take lessons.
find something you want to play and cant.
set a goal
then do it.
Nothing feels better.

[JasmineTea]

All it takes is desire. I've got some kind of built-in mechanisim that motivates me to play as often as possible. Which, is really as often as I want. Which, is pretty much whenever I'm not working or eating.

I don't often "practice" unless I've been making up a fingerstyle song and have to get the muscle memory in order, or work out whatever glitches there might be. Or if I learn a new chord shape or something, and need to get it down. "Practice" for me is more improv and dreaming than anything els.

Discipline only goes so far, takes all the fun out of playing, and then the git ends up sitting around collecting dust because it's too much like work. Before you get tired of discipline, switch back over to just playing for fun. That way you won't get tired of discipline and you'll have some left when you need/want it.

I think comparing one's self to other guitarists is a mistake. I never do. If I did, and saw Leo Koetke or someone as the benchmark, I'd have quit a long time ago. I can't play like Leo, never will, but I also know he can't play like me either. I suggest you not seek afirmation from others, or measure your playing against others. There's a lot of players who are techinically perfect and sound wonderful. There's also a lot of players who are anything but technically perfect who sound just as wonderful. Use yourself as the benchmark and it all becomes a non-issue.

IMO, if you enjoy the challenge of figuring that next thing out, discovering the connection between this musical idea and that, you've got all you need.

I've never taken a lesson, been playing since forever, can play most anything I want.

[Samilyn]

Hi Tim

Let me also add my belated welcome to you.

I know what it is to be stuck in a guitar rut. That's one of the reasons I joined this forum - to be in touch with a world much larger than my own. Hearing other guitarist's music, finding out what others play and the CDs they listen to - all of this motivates me broaden my scope and step outside my little envelope to learn new things.

Don't be shy about getting together with other players. There's always somebody who is a better player, somebody who is just beginning, and those of us who are somewhere in the middle.

Interacting with other players or taking a lesson or two can open your mind to things you didn't think of before.

IMHO, with any undertaking, or even life in general, ups and downs with plateaus in between are probably quite normal. I honestly think it's the rare person who is on the upside or downside all the time.

Just my .02