Neck work

[MePeel]

Ok folks, advice time. I've got an old Sears Silvertone

parlor that I picked up for $15 bucks. The neck joint is loose. Im talkin loose enough to slip a steel rule in. As it is a beater that I bought on the cheap, If it gets fixed, I'll have to do it. I like the tone, but not enough to bring in a luthier to do the job. Do I have to remove it entirely to try a repair, or is there a chance that if I dose it good with glue, and clamp it, that it will hold for another 30 years?

Mel

[totamus]

well, at $15, it is definately a candidate for home/cheezy repair. I would be leery of just squirting glue in the crevice (although that might work). The glue may not make down to where you want it to be.

 

My first guitar (wish I still had it) had a loose neck. Someone had drilled into heel of the neck and then used a wood screw to hold the neck in. Wasnt pretty, but it held tuning. as a bonus, I could adjust the neck angle by tightening or loosening the screw.

 

You could probably drill all the way through both the heel and block and then dowel also. Problem with either just gluing or gluing and doweling is that the neck angle will have to be correct when you do the repair. If it isnt right, the saddle will have to be adjusted. If it is way off, the guitar may be ruined (the saddle may not be able to be adjusted enough).

 

I would probably do the dowel and glue as a doweled joint is very strong.

 

Maybe someone else will have a better idea.

 

Good luck

[Freeman Keller]

Since that joint is what sets the entire geometry of the guitar (and thus its playability) I wouldn't just shoot some glue in it and hope that the angle comes out right (it won't, I can almost promise). This would be a good time and an afordable guitar to learn how to do a real neck reset - remove it with steam, calculate the correct angle, glue it back on letting the wedging action of the joint set the angle.

 

I can sure give you some links to show you the proceedure. That is also the kind of guitar I look for as a budding luthier-wanna-be (better to practice on a $15 beater that a prewar Martin). If you were in my area we could do it together (but you would have to buy the beer).

 

If you don't want to do that you could sure run a screw or two into it and hope it comes out OK, or you might end up with a slide axe or a wall hanger.

[MePeel]

The git has a floating bridge, so that's not a concearn. The fretboard is still firmly attached, so I would think that the neck angle would be ok. That's why I was considering the pump and clamp method. Any links that y'all could send me would be very welcome.

 

Mel

[Samilyn]

Hmmmm......going to be interesting to see how this one turns out. Keep us posted, eh?

 

Thinking of learning the neck reset procedure with my beater if I can arrange a couple of uninterrupted weekends. A $40-buck git is no great loss if I mess up and this thing is absolute hell to play anyway, though it actually sounds quite nice while I'm blistering my fingers.

[MePeel]

Well, I guess I'll be using the long weekend to pretend that I know how to remove and reinstall the neck. I'll take pics and post the results.

 

Mel

[Freeman Keller]

I promised some links

 

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/NeckReset/00028Reset/00028reset01.html

 

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/NeckReset/00045Reset/00045reset1.html

 

this is the guy who has done my two Martins

 

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/NeckReset/00045Reset/00045reset1.html

 

many more, but you get the idea

[dhoenisch]

Having just done a neck reset on an old Harmony (who made the Silvertones), I can account as to the ease of a neck reset on an old Harmony made guitar. On my guitar, I removed frets 15 on down (I had to do a total refret anyhow), and used a regular clothes iron to heat the fretboard up. About 3-4 minutes later, I tool a clean flexible spatula (the kind you use for spackle, but make sure it's sturdy but flexible) and carefully, but firmly, slid it under the fretboard until it hit the neck. Thank drilling a 1/16" hole in the 15th fret slot, I steamed the neck off, using Frank Ford's idea (from frets.com) of a capuccino maker, a piece of hose and a ball pump needle. The neck came off after only a couple of minutes of steam. Thank, from there, following Frank Ford's instructions, adjusted the neck until it was perfect.

 

Also, the beauty of these old Harmony made guitars is, they were made using Hide glue, so removing the neck was a piece of cake. I than used hot hide glue to reattach the neck and fretboard.

 

Dan

[MePeel]

the project has begun. Last night I removed the neck from the body. I used a clothes iron to heat the neck, (thanks for the tip!) and slid a putty knife under the fingerboard. That was the easy part. I found myself without a hollow needle to insert the steam into the joint. I improvised by taking a mechanical pencil apart and using the pointy tip. Unfortunately, it was too short to actually get into the joint, so I had to settle for pumping it in from the side of the heel that was already loose. Once I figured that it had enough, I used a soft hammer to tap the heel 'til the neck was free. I scraped off the old glue, and used an emory board to smooth the surfaces. Now I'm letting everything dry out, and tomorrow I re-assemble.

Mel

[MePeel]

couple more pics

[happy-man]

Thanks for the pictures and explanation. And thank you Freeman, Dan and totamus for giving advice. I really enjoy seeing this kind of stuff. Someday when things are less hectic (fewer than 6 kids at home) I'd like to get into some guitar repair.

 

Scott O

[dhoenisch]

Very nice. Looks like that neck came off easily and cleanly. Looks like that guitar is in rather good condition, with the exception of the neck issue you are correcting. Keep us posted of your progress.

 

Dan

[MePeel]

It's been around the block, and has the dings to show for it. It does have a funky tone that I love, and even though it's a $15 git, I'd miss it if this little experiment goes south.

 

Mel

[dhoenisch]

I also love the sound of old Harmony guitars. That's why I have two of them. My favorite is my 1968 Harmony Stella H942. I really enjoy playing that guitar, especially after all the work I put into it, including a neck reset. Anyhow just carefully study those links to the neck reset pages from Frets.com that Freeman posted, and take your time with it. You'll do just fine with it.

 

Dan

[MePeel]

As promised. the result. There are bubbles along the seam because I used gorilla Glue, which foams out. I strung it up and tuned it, but time will tell if i did it right. I'm glad that I did it myself, just for the experience.

Mel

[MePeel]

couple more

[dhoenisch]

Looks like a nice clean repair. How is the action, now that you reset the neck? How does it play/sound? I've never used gorilla glue before. I'm a bit of a purist, using hot hide glue on instrument repairs. You got me wondering though, is gorilla glue easy to separate? Say, for example, MePeel keeps this guitar for ever, and 25 years down the road, needs to do another neck reset, would the neck be able to be steamed off at all? Just curious.

 

Dan

[guitarist21]

Say, for example, MePeel keeps this guitar for ever, and 25 years down the road, needs to do another neck reset, would the neck be able to be steamed off at all?

 

I'm going to guess that the neck is going to be damn near impossible to take off now. From my experience with Gorilla Glue, I can say that it is almost entirely unaffected by extreme heat and I've never had any issues with Gorilla Glue-d items coming apart in the water. I glued a piece back onto a pontoon on a small raft this summer. Granted it was on the top and wasn't constantly submerged but it got pretty wet. Also I kept the raft in a garage that is like a greenhouse in the summer- it gets really hot in there. And the piece held.

 

Ellen

[MePeel]

The tone and action are pretty much the same. As for having to reset the neck in 30years, I'll be pushing 80, and probably won't be able to remember that I can play guitar!

 

Mel

[daklander]

I don't think the Gorilla Glue is going to steam very well but it's worth a shot. One place that stuff doesn't work very well is on a glass microwave turntable platter. I had one that broke in half, very nice, clean break into two pieces. I used Gorilla Glue on it and it lasted about six month and came apart again. I couldn't remember if I followed directions completely right so the second time I made sure. It lasted about a month. I boiled over a cup of tea and grabbed the platter to take to the sink and wash it. I was holding it by one of the whole sides and I barely made it to the sink when the other half fell off, fortunately into the sink where it shattered.

So, if steaming won't work, nuke it.

[guitarist21]

So, if steaming won't work, nuke it.

 

I would be interested to see the process required when microwaving a guitar.

[daklander]

I would be interested to see the process required when microwaving a guitar.

 

Either use an INDUSTRIAL size microwave or, or......an axe on axe.