regarding an acoustic guitar opening up with time

[Chief Ten Beers]

So i was lurking over on the taylor forum and there is a thread about whether it's fact or myth that a guitar's sound will improve with age as the top opens up.I believe it to be true and have heard various guitars open up myself over the years.I thought it was a given and it was common knowledge that this indeed happens and didn't realize some think it's bull{censored}.but there are a few dudes on that thread saying it's simply a myth.that a guitar's will sound will pretty much sound the same as the day you bought no matter how much you play it.what say you?

[totamus]

I think you will find universal agreement in this forum. All of us have seen our acoustics open up. Many of us have seen unplayed guitars open up after a period of playing.

 

It probably isn't true for an electric, and I can understand a disbelief among the uninitiated, after all there are many urban legends.

 

I have heard that the primary reason for a guitar "opening up" is the glue used to hold the guitar together. The glue forms long chain molecules which lose elasticity. When played, or vibrated, the glues molecules rearrange into shorter chains, allowing better vibration and sound.

 

I have had personal experience with the phenomenon. It appears to me that biggest change in a guitars sound is in its early life (say the first couple of years).

[Stackabones]

Hmmm ... there's a bit of a debate, but one thing that seems to always pop up: you gotta play them so that they will open up. Just having a guitar sitting in its case for years won't do much.

[babablowfish]

I don't think this qualifies as controversial anymore. They do open up. Also, bridge pins, saddles, strings and nuts do affect tone; and some laminates sound as good as or even better than some solids.

[Freeman Keller]

Terry Allen Hall has a violin that he says "closes up" if it isn't played a lot. This is a complex subject that gets debated a lot - first, does it happen, and second, if it does, exactly what happens?

 

The common feeling is that the tone of an instrument does change over time and many people feel that it takes playing (or vibrations) to make it happen. The mechanism(s) that are usually presented are changes in the glue structure, change in cell structure of the wood (some people say that is is resins crystalizing), changes in finish, general loosening of the bracing and top - yadda yadda. The claim is that some spruces (adi) take longer to open up than others (sitka) and that some woods like cedar hardly change at all.

 

The only way to really find out is controlled recording at different stages of the guitars life - say at day zero, 30 days, 6 months, one year, ten years - of course using the same mic, pick, strings, recorder.....

 

I will say that I did record my 000 at zero, 30 and 6 months - and I think I hear a very slight difference in the latter. Obviously your milage and opinions may vary dramatically.

[Queequeg]

Some laminates sound as good or better as some solids. I think this is indisputable. I do believe however that a guitar's top changes molecularly over time and this is responsible for it opening up. Laminates by definition are far more stable, thus do not undergo this transformation.

Specifically, the microscopic cellular structure of wood is made up of cellulose (hard and crystaline), and hemicellulose (random & amorphous). Think of the cellulose as the grain and the hemicellulose as the glue between the grain. There remains for a long time after the tree is cut an elasticity with respect to this wood grain structure. I believe that when the guitar is played the vibration causes the molecular structure of this soundboard, particularly with the hemicellulose to align itself in sympathy with this vibration, thus, vibrate even more, or at least more easily, and less randomly.

This would explain why laminates (with layers rotated 90

[garthman]

A complex matter indeed. I try to keep an open mind on it: many people, who's opinions I respect, tell me that a guitar will "open up" and its tone will improve with age but I have doubts. I have a few guitars that are of advanced age (35 years +) and I have played them all on and off from the time I bought them and, I'm sorry, but I don't think their sound has changed. Now, of course, the question must be asked: do I remember what they sounded like when they were new?; and the answer, also of course, is no, I don't.

 

Like Freeman says, you would need to record a guitar over a period of time to really identify a difference - but I would challenge anyone to exactly replicate the recording conditions each time.

[babablowfish]

A complex matter indeed. I try to keep an open mind on it: many people, who's opinions I respect, tell me that a guitar will "open up" and its tone will improve with age but I have doubts. I have a few guitars that are of advanced age (35 years +) and I have played them all on and off from the time I bought them and, I'm sorry, but I don't think their sound has changed. Now, of course, the question must be asked: do I remember what they sounded like when they were new?; and the answer, also of course, is no, I don't. Like Freeman says, you would need to record a guitar over a period of time to really identify a difference - but I would challenge anyone to exactly replicate the recording conditions each time.

 

Well, if you have been playing these guitars for 35 years and you cannot detect a change, then given that your hearing has been deteriorating steadily for 35 years due to age, we should conclude that the guitar has been steadily improving in order for you not to notice a difference.

[garthman]

Well, if you have been playing these guitars for 35 years and you cannot detect a change, then given that your hearing has been deteriorating steadily for 35 years due to age, we should conclude that the guitar has been steadily improving in order for you not to notice a difference.

 

Well! Why didn't I think of that?

 

But, on the other hand, maybe the deterioration in my hearing has been so slow that I have no absolute reference benchmarks since every other sound in the universe has, from my aspect, being slowly changing too.

 

OTOH again, if your point was correct, all my records and CDs would sound different, and they don't . . . . or at least I think they don't . . .but maybe the sound from my speakers has improved to compensate for the deterioration in my hearing . . . . . ?

 

I'm going to get a bottle of my Czech beer and contemplate this for a long time.

[Hudman]

I believe solid top guitars "open up" over time.

 

I also believe that new solid wood guitars have a break in or settling period. In my experience, they are more sensitive to humidity and temperature changes when they are new.

 

Of course, it's all subjective.

[Simon76]

It is a myth for most laminates and composites like Rainsong, CA and Emerald.

[bbarkow]

In my personal experience, some guitars I've owned have changed dramatically. Two that come to mind are a Fender SJ65S (Solid top, Lam maple B/S Jumbo) and an Epi Masterbilt AJ500RE.

 

Both of those guitars were very disappointing initially with their lack of low end. The Epi improved 1000% simply with playing. The Fender took some coaxing with a soft cloth and an orbital sander, but it turned into a monster. I wish I still had it.

 

OTOH, the HD-35 didn't change much...then again, it didn't need to.

 

Thinking back, I had a really inexpensive Jasmine - all laminate - that improved a lot with playing time. It started out very tight and thin, and ended up being a real nice sounding guitar.

[bjorn-fjord]

Of course guitars open up over time. Why wouldn't they?

Rain and wind erode mountains but 180 lbs. of torsional stress won't effect 2.8 mm thick wood? Come on. This does not even factor in the cellular changes that have been proven to occur in the wood. The resins crystallize and the wood becomes more brittle and as a result, more resonant.

 

And as for anecdotal evidence: I have constructed many guitars and the sound of every single one of them changed dramatically within a month of first stringing them up. They change a lot at first and then the degree of change continously slows over time. Based on my experience, I would graph the changes that occur in a guitar as a steep curve that gradually gets flatter and flatter over time. That is, a guitar will change the most in its first year, a little less in the second year, less yet in the third year, etc, etc...

 

The Earth is round, guitars open up. Send anyone who would suggest otherwise my way and I'll straighten them out.

[Hudman]

The Earth is round, guitars open up. Send anyone who would suggest otherwise my way and I'll straighten them out.

 

"The Earth is round"?

 

.................................

 

Excellent post!

[fatback]

Well, if you have been playing these guitars for 35 years and you cannot detect a change, then given that your hearing has been deteriorating steadily for 35 years due to age, we should conclude that the guitar has been steadily improving in order for you not to notice a difference.

 

You may have hit on a point here - is it the guitar changing or you. You play the guitar at zero and its sound is new to you - you may love it or hate it but you're not yet comfortable with it. After time you become more comfortable with the sound - you also become more capable of extracting a better sound from the instrument. Could this be the improvement that most of us percieve with a guitar with time? (A bit like a marriage really )

 

Phil

[Tele like it is]

I owned three Gibson LG-O's. Two were made the same year. ('63) and the third was made in '64. One of the '63's and the '64 were in excellent condition. Obviously played very little their lives. Frets practically brand new. The other '63 I played hard, practicing and touring for 10 years heavily. It sounded VERY different than the other two. Even after I had new frets put on you could hear a marked difference. It was a much better sounding guitar than the other two. Not exactly scientific but there ya go.

 

I also own a '38 Gibson L-00 and that thing has a mojo I can't describe. The new repros sound like crap next to it.

 

And yes "mojo" is a scientific term.

[guitarcapo]

I've heard pianos and harps and other stringed instruments open up too.

[bbarkow]

 

I've heard pianos and harps and other stringed instruments open up too.

 

 

I read about a professional harpist who always had three harps: a new one that he was breaking in, one that was sounding decent for practice and a third one for performances that was just on the edge of implosion.

[SkippyX]

Here's an interesting little article at acousticguitar.com that explores the subject a little bit. Apparently a couple of guys built a "shaker" that they strap acoustics to and blast them w/ sound for about 45 minutes. According to the article the results varied w/ the guitars, but the results ranged from noticable to "holy {censored}" (my wording).

[Stackabones]

 

Here's an interesting little article at acousticguitar.com that explores the subject a little bit. Apparently a couple of guys built a "shaker" that they strap acoustics to and blast them w/ sound for about 45 minutes. According to the article the results varied w/ the guitars, but the results ranged from noticable to "holy {censored}" (my wording).

 

 

So ... that article has been out ten years! Has the shaker caught on???

[AndrewGG]

I think a lot has to do with the environment a guitar is played in. Wood will naturally absorb and exude moisture depending on where the guitar lives.

I'd bet that my guitar would sound a lot different after a few months in Arizona compared with the moist, humid climate of south west England where I live.

I'm not arguing against the opening up process but I think environment plays a greater part than is given credit for when changes in sound are considered.

[0rbitz9]

My Carvin C980T was a little bass deficient when I first got it. After about

six months, it started to settle in, and the sound got more balanced. Other

friends who haven't plauyed this guitar in a while have commented on the

difference, so I doubt that I'm imagining it.

[SkippyX]

 

So ... that article has been out ten years! Has the shaker caught on???

 

 

Couldn't tell ya. I thought the article was interesting, though.

[garthman]

Well, as I promised, last night I consumed a few bottles of good Czech beer (and a few glasses of good red wine) and contemplated this matter at length. Whilst contemplating, I played two or three of my guitars for a few hours.

 

I made an astonishing discovery! As the evening progressed, my guitars began to sound better and better! I heard the difference! Honestly!

 

So, I, who was once a sceptic on the "opening up" issue, am now a firm believer in the phenomenon.

[AndrewGG]

 

Well, as I promised, last night I consumed a few bottles of good Czech beer (and a few glasses of good red wine) and contemplated this matter at length. Whilst contemplating, I played two or three of my guitars for a few hours. I made an astonishing discovery! As the evening progressed, my guitars began to sound better and better! I heard the difference! Honestly! So, I, who was once a sceptic on the "opening up" issue, am now a firm believer in the phenomenon.

 

 

Budvar; my favourite beer of all time. Try some Polish Zywiec if you haven't already...