Music Room Acoustics?

[Samilyn]

A spare bedroom is just begging to be turned into a music room, but our house is very small, so some sort of noise reduction is in order for hubby's sake.

 

Just wondering what experiences anyone has had with various materials, cork, convoluted foam, white "acoustic" tile squares? The room itself is small, about 12' x 14'.

 

I'd like to cover the walls (and maybe the ceiling) with something that would give me good acoustic properties inside the room and little noise outside the room.

 

Wide open to suggestions here, so thanks for any and all.

[garthman]

Why not just buy hubby some earmuffs? Pink?

[daklander]

Oh Oh, now you're opening a can'o worms. Recording or just a pleasant playing room? You are really going to have to sit down and decide your wants and needs against reality and it can be very expensive to get a room acoustically treated and sound proofed, if that's the goal.

You're never going to get it really quiet because it is an integral part of the house and directly coupled via the house framework. The only way to isolate it is to build a room within a room.

So, if just want to turn your spare room into a reasonably good sounding room you can get by fairly reasonably but with limitations. Do not deaden all the walls, floor and ceiling. You need reflective surfaces or the room will sound like crap. If you have carpet on the floor, pretty much leave the ceiling alone. If your floor is hardwood, use some nice throw rugs. That may change a bit as you go.

Are all the walls insulated, interior and outer? They will need to be.

Keep some furniture in there. A couch or two will work. A book case along one wall will help break up and diffuse some unnecessary reflections. Drapes over the windows will usually help. Replace your present door with a solid wood door, if it's one of the hollow doors. Throw some pillows into the corners. If you use acoustic foam use it judiciously, maybe a panel or two on the ceiling, maybe a panel or two on one or two of the walls. The locations will be determined by where you will be sitting to play and the subsequent reflections so may be a trial and error situation, if you use the stuff at all. Keep in mind that sound will travel through the walls, studs, floors & etc, as well as air and the bass tones will transmit through the solids more than the upper frequencies, at least audibly.

 

That's my short synopsis for now.

[garthman]

Earmuffs sounding better and better, eh?

[Freeman Keller]

Dak's description pretty well fits our music/TV room. Big stuffed loveseat (that is comfortable for both guitar playing and late night movie watching), a thick rug over the hardwood floor, couple more pieces of furniture, some books.... I don't use any amps, but my resonators get pretty loud - with the doors close SK can read in the next room while I wail away. An advantage of having the TV in there is that I do a lot of video guitar lessons and I can shut the doors and go over and over something.

 

One of my technicians has a home recording studio - he has put a lot of effort into sound deadening and making the room less live, plus trying to cut down the noise that escapes (he records some pretty loud electric bands). I could find out what he did, but it is way overkill for an acoustic room.

 

Last thought is that most evenings I will play while Sherrill reads in the same room. I always ask if it will disturb her and she almost always says "no, please do" - I play quietly without picks (and don't play the reso if she is reading)

[outdoorgb]

Room acoustics is a science. And can be a very exensive endevor. Google search and you will find the science end of it and the practical solutions stuff.

 

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm

 

good luck.

[Queequeg]

this is almost on topic. Some of the restaurants in town here have removed the carpet & drapes. And the table cloths, too. Some even play loud music now too. I read a while back that research has shown people eat faster in a noisy environment. Thus, these places turn their tables over faster with the voices chattering, dishes & silverware clanging, all @ a, elevated volume.

I find it rather disturbing, but I'm an old curmudgeon. I help them out by making what would have been my table available immediately and always, and instead by frequenting establishments that don't subscribe to this philosophy and business tactic. When I take my girlfriend out to dinner we like to talk to each other, not shout over the noise, and we don't like to be rushed through our meal. We only go out once or maybe twice a month, so it's a treat for us; and we like to make it sort of a special occasion.

So..........

Don't do what these restaurants do.

Heed daklander's advice.

...and play away in semi-muted bliss.

[Samilyn]

 

Earmuffs sounding better and better, eh?

 

 

LOL. That's always been a thought at the back of my mind, Garthman, though certainly not pink ones. My hubby has the most super-sensitive hearing of anyone I've ever known. I do believe he could hear a mosquito fart at 50 paces.

 

Now, everyone, thanks so much for the input, especially about leaving the ceiling alone for a reflective surface. Here's more criteria, which I probably should have posted to begin with.

 

In a nutshell, what I want is "pleasant, but more quiet outside than normal" if that makes any sense.

 

It's a corner room, so the two exterior walls are already well insulated. The floor is carpeted, but will not remain so. (Kids + dogs + rural environment have taken their toll) I appreciate the comments about the throw rugs.

 

One interior wall is actually comprised of the closets between two bedrooms, one of which is now my home office. With both stuffed full of the usual off-season clothes and closet clutter, noise is not an issue there.

 

What I am mostly wondering about is what to do to the remaining interior wall and perhaps to the back of the door, to deaden noise outside the room when I want to get a little loud on my git or keyboard, or perhaps indulge in a late-night practice session, among other things.

 

What little recording I'd do is strictly the "for fun" type. I'm not good enough for anything beyond that.

 

I would also like to get some video git lessons and also have a place to watch DVD movies or listen to CDs when hubby is watching his "talking heads" stuff, the fights, or whatever.

 

Problem is that with my hearing impairment, I have to play everything louder than normal or wear headphones. Headphones get mighty old after awhile.

 

So, as per Daklander's suggestion, do you think filling that wall with shelves, perhaps with some cork backing, would be a good solution? Then I'd have a place for a TV/DVD player, books, music, etc. Maybe also back the door with cork?

 

Thanks again, everyone.

[melandy]

You mentioned that it is being turned into a music room... e.g. it is not fully a music room yet. Have you tried playing in there yet, at the volume you plan to long term?

 

This might give you an idea of how radical you need to get with your soundproofing. For example, if he can barely hear you in there -- just enough to be irritated or distracted (or whatever), then you don't need to do a whole lot. Maybe just some bookshelves and hanging something on the back of the door would do the trick. If the current configuration is more severe, then you'll have to do a lot more.

 

-Andy

[guitarist21]

 

I'd like to cover the walls (and maybe the ceiling) with something that would give me good acoustic properties inside the room and little noise outside the room.

 

 

Very similar thread to this one back in October: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1776089&highlight=recording+closet The process that myself and others describe in that thread gets you some pretty good recorded sounds.

 

Ellen

[Samilyn]

Thanks again, everyone.

 

I'm still in the process of emptying the room. I'm sure the acoustics will be different when it's not crammed full of oversized bedroom furniture.

 

Taking the place of the big bed will be a futon sofa and lots of squishy throw pillows so the room can still accommodate an overnight guest in a pinch.

 

Thanks for the link, Ellen. I should have searched first. Yeah, I'm lazy.

[daklander]

Might be nice to have a drawing of the layout. 12x14 is actually a decent size though it would be better if the measurements weren't even, IE 11x15. Good Lord help those with square rooms. If the closet is a shallow closet with sliding doors, I'd take the doors off and place a book case in there and use the ends for hanging guitars. (I've actually done that in the room I'm working on.) That bit of alcove will throw an odd dimension to the room and help the reflection situation. Somewhere on one of my computer hard drives I have a layout. I'll dig through the main box for it when I look for the guitar stand template for Lauren and post it here so you can see what I'm talking about.

[Queequeg]

What I am mostly wondering about is what to do to the remaining interior wall and perhaps to the back of the door, to deaden noise outside the room when I want to get a little loud on my git or keyboard, or perhaps indulge in a late-night practice session, among other things. I would also like to get some video git lessons and also have a place to watch DVD movies or listen to CDs when hubby is watching his "talking heads" stuff, the fights, or whatever. Problem is that with my hearing impairment, I have to play everything louder than normal or wear headphones. Headphones get mighty old after awhile.

Here's what I did with one interior wall in my home, Samilyn. This is a Pendleton full-size wool blanket. It sucks up a lot of sound.

And I would suggest that you do get your self a good set of comfortable headphones, Samilyn. When its all done, take some pictures and let's see your new music room.

[DeepEnd]

 

. . . Do not deaden all the walls, floor and ceiling. You need reflective surfaces or the room will sound like crap. If you have carpet on the floor, pretty much leave the ceiling alone. If your floor is hardwood, use some nice throw rugs. . . . . . . If you use acoustic foam use it judiciously, maybe a panel or two on the ceiling, maybe a panel or two on one or two of the walls. . . . . . . 12x14 is actually a decent size though it would be better if the measurements weren't even, IE 11x15. Good Lord help those with square rooms. . . .

 

Something I picked up years ago when I was seriously into audio equipment: Have acoustically "live" and "dead" surfaces facing each other. For example, a heavily carpeted floor and bare ceiling without any acoustic tiles or whatever.

 

Even numbers aren't a problem so much as numbers that are multiples of one another, for example a 16'x12' room with an 8' ceiling. You'd have resonant frequencies at multiples of about 69Hz (the speed of sound is roughly 1100 ft./sec., which means 16' is the wavelength of 69Hz, 8' is the wavelength of 138Hz, etc.) Since Db at the 4th fret on the 5th string is about 139Hz, this could make a guitar sound very boomy, especially if you were recording.

[daklander]

 

Something I picked up years ago when I was seriously into audio equipment: Have acoustically "live" and "dead" surfaces facing each other. For example, a heavily carpeted floor and bare ceiling without any acoustic tiles or whatever. Even numbers aren't a problem so much as numbers that are multiples of one another, for example a 16'x12' room with an 8' ceiling. You'd have resonant frequencies at multiples of about 69Hz (the speed of sound is roughly 1100 ft./sec., which means 16' is the wavelength of 69Hz, 8' is the wavelength of 138Hz, etc.) Since Db at the 4th fret on the 5th string is about 139Hz, this could make a guitar sound very boomy, especially if you were recording.

 

 

Wouldn't odd lengths on one side help eliminate most of the problems with multiples?

[DeepEnd]

Wouldn't odd lengths on one side help eliminate most of the problems with multiples?

Not necessarily. The problem is with ratios. Think in terms of a room that's 18'x13' with a 9' ceiling. The short wall and ceiling are both odd numbers but the ratio of long wall to ceiling is 2:1. The resonant frequencies are 61Hz and 122Hz. The B at the 2nd fret of the 5th string is about 123Hz, which translates to boom. The ideal is to have all multiples of prime numbers, provided they aren't multiples of each other (3x5x7, 5x7x9, etc.) A square room is a potential nightmare because the same frequency is reinforced by both sets of walls. Samilyn's 12'x14' room is pretty close. A cube (think some bathrooms) is worse, which is why most of us don't listen to music in the bathroom (Of course, singing is perfectly fine.)

[daklander]

Ah, got it, ratios between any of the three aspects makes sense. But, if you have a standard 8' ceiling and an odd length on one side, as long as you'd stay away from multiples of 8 on the other length you should still be in good shape.

[Hudman]

Some people like to hang decorative quilts on the interior walls. You can hang them from a curtain rod. That way, there will be a small gap between the quilt and the wall. It will help absorb sound that bounces off the uncovered, exterior walls.

[Samilyn]

WhooHoo! Y'all are giving me lots and lots of fabulous ideas! Thanks to you, a more definitive picture of my desired result is beginning to form in my mind, both acoustically and aesthetically. The best part is, I now think I can do it on my oh-so-tight budget.

 

Queequeg, that pretty Pendleton wouldn't remain on my wall for long - I'd be curled up under that delightfully cozy blanket in no time. Same goes for a quilt, Hudman.

 

Many thanks for all the technical info!! Yes, I'm dealing with a square room and a slightly dropped ceiling (7'6"). I had no clue as to how these room dimensions would affect the acoustics.

 

I had guesstimated the room to be 12 x 14. Now that most of the clutter is out of my way, I was able to take accurate measurements last night. It's smaller than I thought, measuring only 10' x 10' 6". Yikes...that's really small!

 

(How did I ever cram so much junk in it??? Guess that's why I figured it was bigger. Duh)

 

Closet is dinky and not a slider, but I love the idea of creating an alcove. Measurements and examination reveal that would only require the removal of the door, its frame, a little drywall and one stud. Not a major project by any standard.

 

I'm now thinking 18" deep "wall unit" type cabinetry spanning the remaining interior wall, with a combination of closed cabinets and open shelves, would give the room a more rectangular shape. Open shelves with books would absorb sound while cabinet doors would reflect it. Cabinet doors could always be removed if I don't like the result.

 

Yeah, the remaining space will be pretty narrow. I'm going to think things through very carefully and try to bring it off as cozy instead of cramped.

 

Not going to mess with the ceiling. PITA to scrape all that crumbly white plaster stuff off.

 

Carpet is definitely going to the nearest dumpster. Have pretty much decided on an attractive vinyl for the floor and tossing down some easy-to-clean throw rugs. I can't afford real hardwood and detest the fake stuff. The Pendleton has given me the idea of using Navaho-type rugs.

 

Budget dictates backing the hollow door with cork as opposed to replacing it with a solid one. When the door is closed, I think a light-colored cork will blend nicely with the pine I plan to use for the cabinetry/shelves.

 

Sure can't wait to get this done. Wonder how many days I can play hooky from work??

[Jessz1]

In my music room, (26x17) I found that most of the noise leaks around the door. Make sure the door seals tight. Put a sill at the bottom and a gasket all the way around it. My girlfriend never complains till I get the Les Paul and Marshall cranked up over five. Good luck and have fun!

[Samilyn]

In my music room, (26x17) I found that most of the noise leaks around the door. Make sure the door seals tight. Put a sill at the bottom and a gasket all the way around it. My girlfriend never complains till I get the Les Paul and Marshall cranked up over five. Good luck and have fun!

 

Duh....why didn't I think of that? Thanks! Gasket material and door-bottom sweep now on the shopping list.

[S~R~O]

Music Room sounds Nice Samilyn....and Yes you are that good to post your recordings.....

I'm of the mind as giving the Ole' man a set of wireless Head Phones for the TV.....Or EarMuffs.......

[Samilyn]

....and Yes you are that good to post your recordings.....

 

Uh....I dunno about that. But thanks. I'll give it some thought, but my little 4-track Korg recorder suddenly refuses to power up, so I can't lay down anything to see where I'm at.

 

See ya at the song circle tomorrow night. Hope we get some more players! And if nobody but us four shows up, we'll just have a great time anyway. But no more Flying Goats coffee for yours truly.

[T.B.]

Hey Samilyn you may want to check this out..... I'm not sure if you want to go this deep.

 

Craig Anderton Mastering In The Home Studio.

http://storefront.theplatform.com/GetStorefrontEvent.event?pid=pdOt0LChzvl1tyDqtot0CuPLb3ElKoFJ

 

Trina

[daklander]

 

Hey Samilyn you may want to check this out..... I'm not sure if you want to go this deep. Craig Anderton Mastering In The Home Studio. http://storefront.theplatform.com/GetStorefrontEvent.event?pid=pdOt0LChzvl1tyDqtot0CuPLb3ElKoFJ Trina

 

 

Trina, Craig's book is not going to go into what to do as far as acoustics go, or very lightly touch on it if it does. It will have very good information about recording techniques. I was fortunate to have worked on a project that was included in another book he, Craig Anderton, wrote in conjunction with Christian Deinhardt, Cubase SX/SL Mixing and Mastering. Though written for Cubase the information pertains to just about any computer based recording setup. Interested members of Craig's forum were involved in a project where we all acquired the same raw tracks and imported them into our programs where we manipulated, modified, mixed and mastered as we saw it. The results were included on a CD that is included with the book. It was an amazing experience and a tremendous learning aid.

 

 

Samilyn, Here's some information from Taylor, and some other information on room acoustics for your enjoyment, though the last is quite in depth. Also, here's some info from Crutchfields