Quality of guitars

[12Gauge]

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE:wave:

 

Here it is Christmas morning and my whole family is still asleep. I have two teens so present opening may not happen until later this morn.

 

Do you think the quality of lower priced guitars has gone up over the years? I recall buying a made in japan Epiphone 12 string about 25 years ago or more and I payed $400.00 for it. That was a lot back then and the guitar wasn't very good quality at all.

 

Now you read about Walden's, Ibanez, the Godin line of guitars and others that sell for the same or less that are getting exellent reviews.

[ChiyoDad]

Merry Christmas! Funny, but I've been thinking about this myself based on my experiences with classical guitars and after reading Fred's post about acoustics.

I think that, overall, guitar quality has improved. Among a small group of manufacturers, quality and consistency in the $100-$1000 range has improved as has the price-to-performance ratio. The market has grown too and that has given a lot of poor manufacturers (with lousy guitars and lousy price-to-performance ratios) to step in and take advantage of those who don't do their research.

Just my quick two cents on Christmas morning. And now, back to ripping open some presents.

[Scott Fonseca]

Guitar's price to quality ratio has improved. The main reason for that is the cheap labor in manufacturing guitars. You can now get a decent starter guitar for 100-200 dollars! As others have said on this forum, this is a golden age of guitar manufacturing.

[totamus]

Merry Christmas!!!

 

Scott is absolutely right. I don't think there has ever been a time in history you could get such good instruments for so little money. Look at the review DonK gave the Morgan Monroe MV01. It was about $400, with hardshell case. If you make $80,000 per year, that is a little over a days pay. Guitars used to be something that you had to budget and many took loans out for.

 

I have a Chinese knockoff of a Gibson Es-335. It is one of the finest guitars I have ever had. Quality, sound, playability etc. I paid under $200 for it. It is, IMHO, better than a genuine Gibson ES-335 that I had years ago.

[Collapse]

I Haven't played any Godin acoustics, but if their electrics are any indication they're top quality, and I don't mean that relatively.

[denvertrakker]

Godin is a shining star for quality in North American guitar manufacturing at a reasonable price. Even their least expensive lines are decent.

As far as the Chinese are concerned, I'm convinced we're seeing the same ramping-up of quality that happened in Japan some 40 years ago. When the Japanese first started with electronics, their "hi fi" stuff was crude but cheap. Very quickly they learned what the market required and changed accordingly. When I was a teen, "Made In Japan" was not a compliment. Now, their stuff - guitars and otherwise - is seen as first rate. Give the Chinese a few years - and a tilt towards being a more democratic society - and you'll see the same thing.

NOTE: The above comment on Chinese politics should not be interpreted as an opening to inject politics into this discussion.

[Fred Fartboski]

Yes. The quality of inexpensive imports has gone up amazingly in just the past few years. There still are some dogs you have to watch out for, but if you go out and play alot of them you should have no trouble finding a satisfying instrument for a low price. I started another thread commenting on it. Went to GC yesterday with the intention of trying out a bunch of cheap acoustics and was very surprised. I used to be a Gibson/Martin/Guild snob, but not anymore.

[MattSkibaIsGOD]

I wouldn't include Ibanez in the list of good low-priced guitars.

[denvertrakker]

I wouldn't include Ibanez in the list of good low-priced guitars.

 

 

That might be changing. Ever played one of their new Sage series?

[Samilyn]

Merry Christmas!!

 

Yup - I think quality of the lower priced gits has improved drastically over the years. Only a completely ignorant buyer would waste bucks on total-crap ones like Esteban.

 

What Fred mentioned is spot on. When given the opportunity to play a variety of gits, nowadays you're in for a surprise or two. For instance, my budget-priced Martin D12X1 has lam back and sides, but simply shreds many other all-solid, higher-priced 12-strings.

[minus9]

CNC machining has improved the quality of much of the imported stock out there. It has meant that guitars can be manufactured to a better and more consistent level of fit and finish.

[larry50]

I think generally import quality has improved, both on the acoustic and electric sides. However, based on playing lots of different makes of imported guitars, I think a lot depends on the quality of the brand. Guild makes the GAD line in China and they are every bit as good as an American made guitar and they sound like it too. But Guild American's have improved dramatically over the last few years, and I think their devotion to quality control and use of superior woods shows in their overseas-made GAD line. Breedlove makes their Atlas series in Korea, and the quality control seems just as good as their American lines. When the maker cares, it shows in their products wherever they are made. When the maker is just trying to make a buck and doesn't really care about the reputation of his brand that much, it shows too. While overall the quality of imports has improved, it is getting to the point where I think the market is just getting glutting with so many different similar products, most of which are being manufactured by Saga or other similar big guitar manufacurers, that it's getting increasingly hard to tell one from the other.

[moctzal]

I wouldn't include Ibanez in the list of good low-priced guitars.

 

 

I disagree.

I think their Artwood gits are pretty good...

[denvertrakker]

I think generally import quality has improved, both on the acoustic and electric sides. However, based on playing lots of different makes of imported guitars, I think a lot depends on the quality of the brand. Guild makes the GAD line in China and they are every bit as good as an American made guitar and they sound like it too. But Guild American's have improved dramatically over the last few years, and I think their devotion to quality control and use of superior woods shows in their overseas-made GAD line. Breedlove makes their Atlas series in Korea, and the quality control seems just as good as their American lines. When the maker cares, it shows in their products wherever they are made. When the maker is just trying to make a buck and doesn't really care about the reputation of his brand that much, it shows too. While overall the quality of imports has improved, it is getting to the point where I think the market is just getting glutting with so many different similar products, most of which are being manufactured by Saga or other similar big guitar manufacurers, that it's getting increasingly hard to tell one from the other.

 

 

One of the problems with Asian guitar manufacturing is, they're all over the map. I've said this many times about Chinese electronics - they're perfectly happy to make whatever you want. You want quality, fine, you got it. You want junk, ok, they'll make that too. AFAIK, Saga doesn't actually manufacture anything - they're an importer who buys from various factories. One company who builds for a wide variety of brands is Cort - the second largest guitar manufacturer in the world. Everything from Ibanez, Carvin, Fender and more, down to some of the no-name budget lines. Samick, larger than Cort, builds guitars under a whole variety of names for US importers.

 

I don't know who builds Guild's import line, but I've heard that the Breedlove Atlas gits are made by Crafter - which is a surprise, since I didn't know that Crafter built for anyone other than themselves. They seem to be an unusual Asian manufacturer - almost like a "boutique" company in Korea - which is not the usual style over there. But everything they put out seems to be to a higher standard.

[richardmac]

When I got my acoustic about a year ago, I had a budget of up to exactly $1,000 and not a penny over, so I was looking at high end cheap guitars and low end big name guitars. I went a bunch of different places and tried a bunch of different guitars and ended up with a canadian guitar - a Larrivee D-03. It had hands down the best sound of any guitar I'd heard for under a grand. Actually, it sounded as good as any of the higher end guitars I played.

But the low end (aka $150 to $400) guitars? Nowhere near as good IMHO. The sun-$1000 Martin's were OK but had this big huge low end and teeny high end, not smooth at all. The Taylors sound good but overly bright to my ears. The Larrivee sounded smoother and more balanced.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a Larrivee ad. I guess I had two points - one, the best guitar for under a grand that I found wasn't made in the USA, it was made in Canada, and two, there's a difference between a $300 guitar and an $800 guitar.

[pk1fan]

I disagree. I think their Artwood gits are pretty good...

 

 

+1 I have an Artwood Ibanez ( about 10 years old now ) and it has done a very good job for me .

[T.B.]

Didn't budget conscious US guitar manufacturers like Harmony for example do the same thing, build guitars for anybody and everybody? Some of their "top of the line stuff" wasn't so bad, but as you went down the food chain, junk. Of course craftsmanship, consistent quality across the board, bolt on necks, gig bag/hard-shell case included, finishes, solid tops and better tuners set many of the Chinese/Korean/Mexico apart from our once upon uh-time US guitar companies.

My guitar lutherie/tech marvels at the quality of many of these $300/$600 "budget guitars" now. He told me this market has become his bread & butter to his bottom line. Saw him the weeks before Christmas: Alvarez, Art & Lutherie, Guild, Parkwood, Walden, Washburn, Yamaha, abound in his shop for nut/saddle bone transplants, and set-ups. What he's noticed, these "budget guitars" have allowed many the luxury of buying/owning different wood combos and model sizes. As Samilyn pointed out play your cards right and you can get many of these guitars for even less on Ebay!

Trina

[DEP]

I was in a small shop in the Sierras last summer. Their acoustic room was mostly Martins and some cheap imports. I a/b'd one of the imports (sorry, I can't for the life of me remember what brand it was, must be getting old) against a Martin that literally cost three times the price. Style and woods were pretty much the same. The import had a much more comfortable neck, decent fit and finish (though certainly not up to Martin standards, but not bad overall), quicker response, better headroom and richer tone. I left wondering why anyone would buy the Martin when they could get the import for much less money, but the shop owner told me that he sold a lot more of the Martins, and this in a place where folks didn't have a lot of disposable income.

[whit townsend]

Yep. $100 gets you a real guitar nowadays. No so true back in the 70s when I started.

[Samilyn]

Yep. $100 gets you a real guitar nowadays. No so true back in the 70s when I started.

 

 

Ain't that the truth!

 

I started playing back in the '60s, mostly Harmonys and a particularly awful Kent 12-er somewhere around '68 or so. I did have one all-hog one in about '70 or '71 that sounded pretty good. I think it was also a Harmony, but not entirely sure anymore. Just been too long ago to remember the name.

 

I'll never forget buying my first really good git in '78. Back then it cost me two weeks pay and it was a Tak F400 12-er, not a Martin or other high-end name. (Later to be known as a Lawsuit Tak)

 

That Tak had an awesome sound and played like butter. I still miss it.

[AndrewGG]

Ain't that the truth! I started playing back in the '60s, mostly Harmonys and a particularly awful Kent 12-er somewhere around '68 or so. I did have one all-hog one in about '70 or '71 that sounded pretty good. I think it was also a Harmony, but not entirely sure anymore. Just been too long ago to remember the name. I'll never forget buying my first really good git in '78. Back then it cost me two weeks pay and it was a Tak F400 12-er, not a Martin or other high-end name. (Later to be known as a Lawsuit Tak) That Tak had an awesome sound and played like butter. I still miss it.

 

 

My Lawsuit Takamine was the F340S dread and it was a huge step up from the commonly available Ekos and Arias at that time; around the late 70's the gap between cheap and unplayable/toneless and the Martins and Gibsons, which were pretty much out of everyone's reach (in England), started to close and a 'mid-range' of well made and good sounding guitars began to develop.

Before my Takamine I was struggling along with an old Yamaha FG180 which was the benchmark for a decent, inexpensive guitar when I first bought it in 1970.

[Samilyn]

My Lawsuit Takamine was the F340S dread and it was a huge step up from the commonly available Ekos and Arias at that time; around the late 70's the gap between cheap and unplayable/toneless and the Martins and Gibsons, which were pretty much out of everyone's reach (in England), started to close and a 'mid-range' of well made and good sounding guitars began to develop. Before my Takamine I was struggling along with an old Yamaha FG180 which was the benchmark for a decent, inexpensive guitar when I first bought it in 1970.

 

 

That gap you speak of was very much in evidence here in the States, too. Until I discovered the Tak in the late '70s, I was convinced that I'd have to save up for years in order to get a nice git.

[Preachy Dad]

Isn't capitalism as wonderful thing? Competition has pushed guitar makers to new levels of excellence never before experienced. The engines of free market societies have also pushed the technologies in virtually every industry to the point where quality at a low price and in greater quantities can be achieved. I agree with my fellow enthusiasts that the heart of the manufacture must be inclined to putting out the very best product possible. Given the proliferation of guitar makers worldwide in recent years, the competition has become intense. I bought my first guitar, a Seagull S6 after pouring over numerous reviews and comparing specs among a number of manufacturers. I wasn't disappointed. While my research helped, going to the music store and playing the guitars sealed my decision. The S6 had a very mellow if not loud sound to it and it was the right price. Since then I have moved up the price scale purchasing a Breedlove Atlas series guitar and an Ovation 1651-7. Truth is, they all have their individual qualities with quality manufacturing being common to each.

 

For me, and I am a novice, paying a high price for a guitar would only be possible if I wanted to add a collectible guitar to my collection. I'm sure the high end guitars are outstanding in their tonal quality, but not being a performer they wouldn't interest me.

 

I think that the lower price and better quality of guitars will bring more folks into the world of Acoustic guitar playing. I am teaching my granddaughter now and I can tell that she is very happy having this gift being included in her life. It's just another way we're making the world a better place through music one person at a time and I'm glad it's been made more economically possible.

[garthman]

I suppose that, back in the 70's in the UK, we were lucky to have Eko guitars. Made in Italy, good quality, reasonable price. There was no way most of us could afford MIA instruments.

There are so many very good quality budget (in relative terms) guiatrs around these days - great for new players especially/

[ChiyoDad]

Competition has pushed guitar makers to new levels of excellence never before experienced.

Actually, in the case of lower-end guitars, it's just pushed production out to further frontiers than we would originally have imagined.

 

It was enough of a stretch back in the 60's and 70's when Yamaha came on the scene with their guitars. Many folks raised an eyebrow at the thought of a Japanese-made guitar.

 

Fifteen years ago, who would have imagined that a great-sounding $500 dreadnought would come from Mao's Massive Magical Music Mart?

:lol: