Members VengefulTikiGod Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Guns? Jeez, what waste of perfectly good guitar money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ohioarrow Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 FWIW - I'm totally opposed to HAND guns. Any argument that they are designed for "sport" is facetious. Hand guns are primarily designed to shoot humans and the statistics are staggering. Something like a magnitude (lemmee Google this) of 3 times more likely a family member being shot in your own house if there's a hand gun inside. Among all handgun homicides in 1997, only 2.3% could be classified as justifyable homicides (self-defense). Children are disporportionately(sp) affected by easy handgun access. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. I'm all about sportsman use & access to rifles. Way too many bad-guy white tail deers around here. They gotta go.Can we put the genie back in the box when there are between 65 and 100 million handguys in the country ? Prolly not. But it seems to me there are really two arguments involved here. NRA hides behind the "sportman" use of rifles to protect their senseless protection of handguns. Cars kill far more than that - perhaps we should shove them off the road as a priority? Should be easier, as far as I know, there is no constitutional right to have a car. Then we should go after that personal freedom thing. People shouldn't have that right, they make too many stupid decisions that lead to a whole host of nasty consequences quite a bit of those bad decisions have deadly consequences. And while we're cleaning up the planet of all the things that are really harmful to people, let's take a hard look at religion shall we? After all, more people in the entire history of mankind have been killed under the banner of one religious crusader or another, faith notwithstanding. A huge portion of that killing happened before there were guns. Statistics that are built to promote fear have but one consequence, oppression. Once you start building them to benefit one cause, another comes right behind it to attack a freedom or right that YOU cherish. I am going to stop here before I dissect your statistic there and really turn the heat up on this discussion. But I will leave you with this thought. You come up with a cause, any cause, it doesn't matter what it is, and most of us can come up with a statistic that demonstrates it's close relationship with the Son of Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crab_Cake Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 I don't like handguns, the only reason they exist is to so they can kill people and stay concealed. I don't know why anyone would ever need one, even for self defense. I also don't like rifles that don't have a practical purpose. All of these rifles that are made for killing. It's seems to be a little out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratman Tigers Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 I like 'em big, I like 'em small, I like 'em all... AND. I have extensive professional training. The SCOUS did the right thing, finally. added - my gun on an airplane Is it even necessary to own such weapons? Aside from a pistol or rifle, are you defending yourself or a damn city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hoddy Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Is it even necessary to own such weapons? Aside from a pistol or rifle, are you defending yourself or a damn city? Some folks enjoy collecting them...as long as they're legal I have no qualms about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hoddy Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 I don't like handguns, the only reason they exist is to so they can kill people and stay concealed.I don't know why anyone would ever need one, even for self defense.I also don't like rifles that don't have a practical purpose. All of these rifles that are made for killing. It's seems to be a little out of hand. Did you know that there have been three independent studies done that show that law abiding Americans use handguns to stop or prevent a crime from happening anywhere from 750,000 to 2.5 million times a year....that's a lot of reasons to need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 . Do you know how many bad things result as a consequence of the Fifth ammendment? How many crooks get let go because of improper Miranda warnings or bad police work? Better 100 guilty men go free than a innocent man suffer.Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MePeel Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 While it's true that cars kill people, there are rules and regulations regarding their use. Also, the instances of a child accidentally killing another child with a car seem rare. The cars vs guns comparison isn't valid. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 I don't know why anyone would ever need one, even for self defense. The FBI's Crime Victimization Survey, which is a collection of data of every violent crime committed in the US in a given year, proved that the only means of self-defense that improved upon actively complying with your attacker, was to use a firearm. Someone defending themself with a firearm is half as likely to die in the attack as someone who does not resist. Handguns are portable by nature, and a gun at home or in the other room is of no use defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members masterbuilt Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Australia is pretty strict on gun ownership, due to a severe massacre about a decade ago. I don't really mind the current laws we have about it. Your crime rate has exploded since then. I'm not saying it's cause:effect, but Australia has no cause to gloat over its crime control programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 While it's true that cars kill people, there are rules and regulations regarding their use. Also, the instances of a child accidentally killing another child with a car seem rare. The cars vs guns comparison isn't valid. Mel There are thousands of laws governing the use of guns, and there are about 20 cases a year of one child accidentally shooting another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mister natural Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Said my piece on this issue, now I'm gonna go play my guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 [YOUTUBE]F2e5PTz9qoA[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stormin1155 Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Golly Miss Molly!!! Fer a bunch ah geetar pickers somes ah youss shor gittin' mighty riled 'bout guns. Alls Ah ken say is sho don't want sommma yous anti gun folks ta get ahold ah ma shotgun er you'lls likely shoot someones, as mad as ya been a'gettin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members totamus Posted June 28, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Well I am impressed. I didnt really intend for this thread to head in this direction, but upon reflection, I guess it was inevitable. This has been for the most part a gentlemanly discussion in area where there are radically opposing views and passionate beliefs. Personally, I am not interested in guns for sport or hunting. All of mine are for self defense and because I simply admire the workmanship of a well crafted weapon. I also subscribe to that whole keeping the militia regulated thing provided in the constitution. Nobody wants criminals to have guns - and that is the core of our disagreement. Some believe that if all guns were made to disappear, that the criminal element would be put in check. Others believe that since most criminals have their guns illegally anyway, passing laws does not affect the criminal element. Laws only affect those who obey them. So the real argument is one of who has the responsibility for our well being? Is it the police department and the 911 center? Our is it ultimately upon our own shoulders to protect ourselves? I am sure you realize where I stand. There was a video on TV a couple of weeks ago showing an elderly man that was run over in the street and left there. People passed him by and did not help. Appalling. But it turns out that people did the thing that they have been conditioned to do: en masse, they called 911 to report the incident. Dont get involved, dont step forward, let the authorities handles such incidents. Terrorists hijacking airplanes counted on this submissive behavior when they hijacked planes on September 11. I have seen people, hundreds of them, look the other when a person was dieing - because they didnt want to get involved (Drowning at a beach. I rescued two kids while hundreds ignore their pleas). I've seen people in a restaurant ignore a man choking to death (I saved him with the Heimlich maneuver). We are being conditioned to abdicate personal involvement and let "the authorities" handle all such incidents. I see gun ownership as being prepared, not as being aggressive. I do respect the other view - but I do not agree that we can let someone else take care of all of our needs. I would have stopped to help the old man lying in the street. I dont trust the state to have all power and all control. Hitler passed gun control too. His motives had nothing to do with public safety, but that was proclaimed as the reason. I am a veteran, a patriot, a businessman, a good neighbor and a father. I am the guy you would pray is nearby if you needed help. I am not special. I believe when the 2nd amendment was written, it had nothing to do with sport or hunting. It is all about ensuring that citzens are never forced to cede their their independence to the state. I dont object to some degree of regulation. Criminals shouldnt have guns. Neither should those with a record of mental illness. Requiring training or military service wouldnt be bad either. But there should be no impediment from a law obiding citizen from obtaining a gun and keeping it ready for use as self defense. I have actually heard 911 tapes of a break in where a caller had a gun, and the 911 dispatcher instructed her not use it. Her family mourns her still. Statistics are easily manipulated, and they are culled from crime reports - there are no sources of data for those times a gun is used to successfully prevent a crime - because the crime is stopped and the incident isn't reported. Gun control advocates try to paint a picture of gun owners as dangerous vigilantes who are ticking time bombs. That is a dangerous caricature designed to influence your opinion. Lawful gun owners are an asset to society, not the reason for crime and violence. I appreciate the tone of this discussion - and apologize for posting it here as it more political than I initially intended (my bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stormin1155 Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Thanks Totamus! I couldn't agree with you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rjoxyz Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 I like 'em big, I like 'em small, I like 'em all... AND. I have extensive professional training. The SCOUS did the right thing, finally. added - my gun on an airplane Sorry, but this is exactly the kind of glib, immature display that the anti's sink their teeth into. You will never convince the uncommitted majority to support your rights when you appear as ridiculous as the extreme end of the opposition. This fuels the anti-gun lobby and risks the rights of those of us who do not run around drawing attention to our gun ownership. It's the kind of thing that scares the uninformed and causes them to run for the perceived safety of more restrictive gun laws. I apologize for offending, but that post is offensive and irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 I apologize for offending, but that post is offensive and irresponsible. And let's not even mention the food in these pics. Now that's disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernie P. Posted June 28, 2008 Members Share Posted June 28, 2008 Well I am impressed. I didnt really intend for this thread to head in this direction, but upon reflection, I guess it was inevitable. This has been for the most part a gentlemanly discussion in area where there are radically opposing views and passionate beliefs.Personally, I am not interested in guns for sport or hunting. All of mine are for self defense and because I simply admire the workmanship of a well crafted weapon. I also subscribe to that whole keeping the militia regulated thing provided in the constitution. Nobody wants criminals to have guns - and that is the core of our disagreement. Some believe that if all guns were made to disappear, that the criminal element would be put in check. Others believe that since most criminals have their guns illegally anyway, passing laws does not affect the criminal element. Laws only affect those who obey them.So the real argument is one of who has the responsibility for our well being? Is it the police department and the 911 center? Our is it ultimately upon our own shoulders to protect ourselves? I am sure you realize where I stand. There was a video on TV a couple of weeks ago showing an elderly man that was run over in the street and left there. People passed him by and did not help. Appalling. But it turns out that people did the thing that they have been conditioned to do: en masse, they called 911 to report the incident. Dont get involved, dont step forward, let the authorities handles such incidents. Terrorists hijacking airplanes counted on this submissive behavior when they hijacked planes on September 11.I have seen people, hundreds of them, look the other when a person was dieing - because they didnt want to get involved (Drowning at a beach. I rescued two kids while hundreds ignore their pleas). I've seen people in a restaurant ignore a man choking to death (I saved him with the Heimlich maneuver). We are being conditioned to abdicate personal involvement and let "the authorities" handle all such incidents.I see gun ownership as being prepared, not as being aggressive.I do respect the other view - but I do not agree that we can let someone else take care of all of our needs. I would have stopped to help the old man lying in the street.I dont trust the state to have all power and all control. Hitler passed gun control too. His motives had nothing to do with public safety, but that was proclaimed as the reason.I am a veteran, a patriot, a businessman, a good neighbor and a father. I am the guy you would pray is nearby if you needed help. I am not special. I believe when the 2nd amendment was written, it had nothing to do with sport or hunting. It is all about ensuring that citzens are never forced to cede their their independence to the state.I dont object to some degree of regulation. Criminals shouldnt have guns. Neither should those with a record of mental illness. Requiring training or military service wouldnt be bad either. But there should be no impediment from a law obiding citizen from obtaining a gun and keeping it ready for use as self defense.I have actually heard 911 tapes of a break in where a caller had a gun, and the 911 dispatcher instructed her not use it. Her family mourns her still. Statistics are easily manipulated, and they are culled from crime reports - there are no sources of data for those times a gun is used to successfully prevent a crime - because the crime is stopped and the incident isn't reported.Gun control advocates try to paint a picture of gun owners as dangerous vigilantes who are ticking time bombs. That is a dangerous caricature designed to influence your opinion. Lawful gun owners are an asset to society, not the reason for crime and violence.I appreciate the tone of this discussion - and apologize for posting it here as it more political than I initially intended (my bad). Very well said!If I'm ever in your neck of the woods first rounds on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cripes Posted June 29, 2008 Members Share Posted June 29, 2008 I wonder if there ever was any of this sort of debate when humans wielded only clubs. "Honey, put that damned thing away. You're scaring the kids and the neighbors seldom come to our cave anymore" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crab_Cake Posted June 29, 2008 Members Share Posted June 29, 2008 My beliefs are a little old fashioned but I do believe strongly in them. I am a pacifist. I do not believe in war, for any reason, ever. I think that killing is the worst thing that a human being can do. To take the life of another. I do not believe in the death penalty and if I was drafted I would rather go to prison as a conscientious objector. Killing is evil, no matter how you split it. If the government says that Its ok to take a mans life, then is it ok to do so? I don't believe it is. That being said, if I had to defend my home or family then I would. But only if the circumstances were grave. (i.e. the opposing army would kill me and my family instead of just occupying) I think that everyone that gets a gun should have to take a safety course and a thorough background check. You have to do the same thing for a drivers license so why not a weapon? But guns that are specifically made for the taking of peoples lives creeps me out. I can understand a shotgun, made to shoot birds but used as self defense. Or a knife which is a tool but can be used on another person. These are OK in my mind. A pistol loaded with hollowpoint rounds that is specifically made to do as much damage as possible to human flesh, now that truly disgusts me. I mean why would anyone ever need something like that? Keep a .12 gauge under your bed loaded with bean bag rounds or salt. It's just as effective and you wouldn't have a mans death on your hands, justified or not. There is too much killing in the world, I could not in good conscience ever support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernie P. Posted June 29, 2008 Members Share Posted June 29, 2008 CC unfortunatly there are plenty of people out there who kill for no reason at all.I hate the idea of ever being in a situation where I might be forced to kill but if anyone threatens the life of a family member and I can stop it by use of a gun or any other weapon I will certainly do so.Can you honestly say you wouldnt.So long as we're on the subject of USSC rulings I have to say I was greatly dissapointed in their decision regarding the death penalty for child rapists.If anyone has it coming it's those ba______.Their victims will never be the same and carry that horror the rest of their lives.I see no justification for the ruling,sympathy or any lesser penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Broadus Posted June 29, 2008 Members Share Posted June 29, 2008 CC unfortunatly there are plenty of people out there who kill for no reason at all.I hate the idea of ever being in a situation where I might be forced to kill but if anyone threatens the life of a family member and I can stop it by use of a gun or any other weapon I will certainly do so.Can you honestly say you wouldnt.So long as we're on the subject of USSC rulings I have to say I was greatly dissapointed in their decision regarding the death penalty for child rapists.If anyone has it coming it's those ba______.Their victims will never be the same and carry that horror the rest of their lives.I see no justification for the ruling,sympathy or any lesser penalty. I agree. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crab_Cake Posted June 29, 2008 Members Share Posted June 29, 2008 CC unfortunatly there are plenty of people out there who kill for no reason at all.I hate the idea of ever being in a situation where I might be forced to kill but if anyone threatens the life of a family member and I can stop it by use of a gun or any other weapon I will certainly do so.Can you honestly say you wouldnt.So long as we're on the subject of USSC rulings I have to say I was greatly dissapointed in their decision regarding the death penalty for child rapists.If anyone has it coming it's those ba______.Their victims will never be the same and carry that horror the rest of their lives.I see no justification for the ruling,sympathy or any lesser penalty. I would kill to defend my family. I never said that I wouldn't. I just can't stand all these gun nuts buying these killing machines. Why would anyone anywhere need a hollowpoint round? Is a normal bullet not good enough for you? To make sure that the intruder is dead and not wounded? Also what if you shot at an intruder, missed and the stray bullet hit a neighbor or one of your family members. Could you live with yourself after an accident like that? For home defense nothing beats a sawed off shotgun filled with rock salt or bean bags. A very effective and cheap non lethal alternative. Pepper spray is also a great way to protect yourself. If you have never seen the effects of it all I can say is that it is brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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