OT - Supreme Court Ruling - Do you Have Guns?

[larry50]

 

I have an interesting twist on the argument. The wording appears to be awkward and unclear "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".   I would suggest that our usage of some terms has somewhat changed over time. Specifically the word "regulated".   reg

[alley trash]

 

..... I'm glad the supreme court went the way it did because it makes no sense for a state or local government to pass laws that abridge a right provided to Americans in the constitution. That right, by the way, was put into the constitution to help the citizens protect themselves from a runaway government. Fortunately, that hasn't been necessary and probably never will be, but it makes no sense to the let the government abridge rights that are designed to protect us from the government itself.

 

 

 

 

:thu:Well said!

[jtjpilot]

wow for such a political topic, it's very calm. I'm gonna stir things up......ZAGER.

 

There, let all hell break loose!

[Crab_Cake]

Cool thread. I think it is about time we have our self some political discussions.

 

I grew up with guns. Gun safety was ingrained upon me at an early age. I WILL not for any reason point any firearm (loaded or unloaded) at any person, unless I mean to do them harm. Which is not going to happen since I am pretty reasonable and likable guy, plus I am 6,3 and linebacker size.

 

Gun safety is so important. I enjoy target shooting, I am a pretty decent shot. But I won't go with anyone who does not respect guns.

 

Guns are very dangerous, and certain people that I know treat them like toys. IMHO they should not be allowed to carry firearms.

 

I think that before you can own any firearm you should need to pass a state run gun safety course. It is way to easy to go to a pawn shop, pick up a gun for $50 and blow your buddies head off with your ignorance.

 

Famous last words "I didn't think it was loaded"

 

I also think that criminals, and the mentally Ill should not be allowed to have them.

 

ok now that my ideas are out of the way . . . .

 

 

When I go camping or hiking, especially around here (Sasquatch!) I like to keep myself armed. I have a .22 rifle, a 30-30 lever action cowboy gun (think John Wayne) a .12 guage shotgun, and a .300 magnum rifle.

 

(the last one was a bad decision, way to big)

 

Usually I keep my trusty knife with me. I am in the woods quite a bit. I like to hike and one of my hobbies is to live off the land, survival type stuff.

 

Here she is

 

 

There is not much crime in my area, we have our fair share of street punks but one look at the above posted utensil has them running.

[garthman]

I don't have a gun. None of my neighbours have guns. Our local policeman does not have a gun. When I drive to work I never entertain the idea that some lunatic road-rage dickhead will shoot me. When my children were attending school, I never once, in my darkest nightmares, ever thought that some poor deranged kid might take a gun along and shoot them and I don't have any fears that a similar thing will happen to my grandchildren. It is possible, I suppose, that I might be burgled one day by a gun-carrying hoodlum but I think I'll just sit quietly while he takes my TV - I don't watch it much anyway.

[Crab_Cake]

 

I don't have a gun. None of my neighbours have guns. Our local policeman does not have a gun. When I drive to work I never entertain the idea that some lunatic road-rage dickhead will shoot me. When my children were attending school, I never once, in my darkest nightmares, ever thought that some poor deranged kid might take a gun along and shoot them and I don't have any fears that a similar thing will happen to my grandchildren. It is possible, I suppose, that I might be burgled one day by a gun-carrying hoodlum but I think I'll just sit quietly while he takes my TV - I don't watch it much anyway.

 

 

Man I love you Brits, can I come live with you guys?

 

I think I would feel much safer.

[C70man]

The US has a very dangerous environment. Does this justify the need for handgun ownership....no.

We have been killing people with handguns since we got here....starting with the indians.

Obviously when guns were needed for hunting, they served a purpose. I don't recall the last time I HAD to use a gun to go out and KILL for my meal. (fishing excluded) As far as needing one for protection...well I haven't killed anyone yet, and I don't feel any less safe without owning a gun today. We need More laws governing ownership, use of guns, etc. Not that bad guys can't get them, just that it makes no sense to make it easier for them.

 

The sport of shooting a gun can be exillerating, I know, I used to hunt in my early years. I gave it up when it made no sense for me to kill my neighborhood animals...Today I get much my exilleration in other ways...like playing my guitar.

[garthman]

 

Man I love you Brits, can I come live with you guys? I think I would feel much safer.

 

 

Of course you can, C_C, and you would be most welcome - but only on condition that you start to drink proper beer.

 

BTW, it's ironic and, I suppose, completely hypocritical, that the UK has such excellent anti-gun laws for the protection of its people (which I applaud and support whole-heartedly) but, at the same time, is the worlds biggest manufacturer of armaments (which I deplore).

[C70man]

 

Of course you can, C_C, and you would be most welcome - but only on condition that you start to drink proper beer. BTW, it's ironic and, I suppose, completely hypocritical, that the UK has such excellent anti-gun laws for the protection of its people (which I applaud and support whole-heartedly) but, at the same time, is the worlds biggest manufacturer of armaments (which I deplore).

 

 

Not too sure about that....check it out on this link....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

[NeverSayDai]

 

I don't have a gun. None of my neighbours have guns. Our local policeman does not have a gun...

 

 

I'm with you, Garthman! I still feel uncomfortable to see policemen with weapons and flak jackets, as are increasingly common if you go to big cities or airports (post-terrorist).

 

I hestitate to say anythig about the USA's gun laws -there is much to admire in American history and the pioneer spirit from those days, but guns come as part of the whole package.

 

How do you go from that to build a better society in which people don't carry self protection firearms because criminals don't have Saturday Night Specials? An a society in which disturbed children don't get guns for tehschool shootings, as Garthman points out. I don't have answers - we had a few high profile cases (Dunblane, Hungerford) and passed even more stringent controls, but we started from a different point.

 

Didn't Samilyn have a story about an incident last year?

[garthman]

 

Not too sure about that....check it out on this link.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

 

 

I'm not certain - perhaps it's "biggest exporter" of arms - it was announced in the news here recently following some UK company winning a multi-billion

[C70man]

I'm not certain - perhaps it's "biggest exporte r" of arms - it was announced in the news here recently following some UK company winning a multi-billion

[outdoorgb]

 

I have an interesting twist on the argument. The wording appears to be awkward and unclear "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".   I would suggest that our usage of some terms has somewhat changed over time. Specifically the word "regulated".   reg

[Bernie P.]

I'm a gun owner and opposed to any and all gun restrictions,registration, and licensing.The notion that a total ban/confiscation of firearms would keep guns out of the hands of criminals is absurd.Considering all the laws against illegal drugs and the fact that you can walk into any school in the country and buy most any drug you want clearly demonstrates how little effect such solutions have.Tons of the stuff pours in every year.A person who doesnt fear the consequences of commiting murder is not afraid of breaking any gun laws either.

[garthman]

 

Didn't Samilyn have a story about an incident last year?

 

 

Yes, she witnessed a road-rage shooting - upset her a lot.

[EvilTwin]

I don't own a gun, and I won't own one.

 

If anyone does or wants to, good for them.

[Crab_Cake]

We should be attacking the root cause of violent crime.

 

 

Education.

 

If we did not have so many homeless and destitute people then we wouldn't have nearly the crime problem that we have.

 

If the big companies weren't shipping all the jobs overseas then our crime rate would be much lower.

 

Is it a coincidence that whenever GM/Ford/Chrysler lays off a bunch of workers that the crime rate escalates along the great lake states?

 

We have one of the worst education systems in the entire world. Our kids our complete idiots.

 

if people were better educated, especially minorities and people in the iner-city. Then we would have a much more stable economy and our crime rate would go down.

 

I am most definately worried about America. We are a consumer society. We don't manufacture anything anymore. I am worried that we will implode on ourselves and bring in another dark age!

 

Just like the romans, when they got fat, lazy, and overextended. Boom they got taken out and society got taken back 700 years. There are a lot of parallels of the Romans and America. It's pretty creepy to think about.

[totamus]

Well put young grasshopper...

[rjoxyz]

I am most definately worried about America. We are a consumer society. We don't manufacture anything anymore. I am worried that we will implode on ourselves and bring in another dark age! Just like the romans, when they got fat, lazy, and overextended. Boom they got taken out and society got taken back 700 years. There are a lot of parallels of the Romans and America. It's pretty creepy to think about.

 

Bingo! I have been preaching this for years, even when the market was strong (has been a house of cards for years). Our national economy was built on manufacturing. Good wages for unskilled workers who could then buy more US products and contribute to the tax base. Usually had health care too.

 

It is over.

 

We may find ourselves forced to become protectionist and start tariffing imports to encourage domestic production. The Walmart mentality has killed us as consumers. We want cheap, regardless of whether we lose jobs and can't even afford cheap.

 

The free market, trickle down, etc. worked when we were the big dog. It no longer works. We can't compete with China and India. Tax cuts to corporations no longer create jobs. They benefit investors, while the jobs go to Malaysia, Mexico, etc. Increasing profits, regardless of the effect on the domestic economy is the mantra. It only benefits the shareholders and increases the division of wealth. We are quickly moving back about a century.

 

Recent studies show Detroit public schools with about a 25% high school graduation rate. Shocking to think about it. At least in past decades, there were auto jobs for the "undereducated". There is nothing for them now. Obviously, this increases crime rates and general deterioration of society. A once thriving city is dead.

 

I have long believed that we could not have a stable and strong US economy without a "middle class" of manufacturing workers. There is nothing wrong with a segment of society getting rich on investments, but they can't sustain a national budget alone. I wish I was wrong. I don't think I am.

 

I have a BA degree in economics. Very little of what I studied in the late 70's and early 80's has any application today. We entered into a global economy and shortsighted corporations moved everything "global" to increase per share earnings. As a nation, we lose.

 

OK, sorry--rant over--gotta go take my blood pressure medicine.

[dwrecker]

"if people were better educated, especially minorities and people in the iner-city. "

 

--> There are tax credits for having kids... (more the better)... and monthly checks...(here you go, have fun). Civil service plan should be put in place... clean up a road, plant trees, do some work... then get paid. Probably aint gonna happen. Lot of problems but no easy answer. Drugs too. If you are involved in any illegal drugs no matter how small.. and, I wont be a hypocrite and say I never did... you are a contributing factor to a portion of gun violence... all the way to South America and Afghanastan.

[fmw]

 

We may find ourselves forced to become protectionist and start tariffing imports to encourage domestic production. The Walmart mentality has killed us as consumers. We want cheap, regardless of whether we lose jobs and can't even afford cheap.

 

 

No kidding all our trading partners put tariffs on our exports. We insist on being the good guys. We're absolutely crazy. This "global economy" nonsense is the root of most of our economic problems. Has been for 15 years.

[Crab_Cake]

I would be very supportive of tariffs on just about all imports. Enough tariffs so that domestic products could at least compete with imports.

 

Unfortunately that would never happen because big business has all the politicians in there pocket.

 

I also think that another new deal, like FDR did would be great. Hire people to work in parks and beautification projects, creating new national monuments. Especially innercity teens that dropped out. And don't privatize it

[Hudman]

 

No kidding all our trading partners put tariffs on our exports. We insist on being the good guys. We're absolutely crazy. This "global economy" nonsense is the root of most of our economic problems. Has been for 15 years.

 

 

Do you know why they don't put tariffs on our "trade partners"?

 

Because our trade partners are mostly from here. US companies are outsourcing production and shipping the finished product back here. Get it? Our government is ran by big business.

[rjoxyz]

I would be very supportive of tariffs on just about all imports. Enough tariffs so that domestic products could at least compete with imports. Unfortunately that would never happen because big business has all the politicians in there pocket. I also think that another new deal, like FDR did would be great. Hire people to work in parks and beautification projects, creating new national monuments. Especially innercity teens that dropped out. And don't privatize it

 

See, the problem there is that those jobs are all funded through taxes. We have a weakened tax base and skyrocketing federal spending, significantly fueled by our presence in Iraq (another rant issue). I don't think we can afford to do that now. Any recoupment of spending through taxes on such

"CCC/WPA" type jobs would still be in the deficit column. Remember, that FDR instituted those programs when we were a protectionist/isolationist nation, unwilling to do much business the rest of the world, unless on our terms. The public resistance to being involved in WWII (before Pearl Harbor) made today's majority opposition to our middle east incursion (at least some of it) look mild at best.

 

I don't think there is any answer to our problems that has been used in the past. This is a new world and we are finally facing that cold reality. We are no longer an economic superpower, alone at the top. We can't control our own destiny with domestic policy any more. Too many outside influences.

 

Whoever takes over the oval office in January 2008, may have some of the worste circumstances to deal with in decades, if not ever. I don't know if Rome is falling, but it looks that way at times. We sure as hell have not had Julius Caesar in charge the last 8 years. (yet another topic that sends my BP into stroke range).

 

I think I am channeling Lewis Black...

[rjoxyz]

 

Do you know why they don't put tariffs on our "trade partners"? Because our trade partners are mostly from here. US companies are outsourcing production and shipping the finished product back here. Get it? Our government is ran by big business.

 

 

About as simple as it gets--and about as true. Hard for anybody to deny that anymore, at least not with a straight face.