So what ever happened to the NRA thread?

[HankGator]

Q. - What's the difference between gays and god? A. - Gays are real.

 

 

What's the difference between conservatives and liberals?

 

If you stand up and say what you just did on a college campus, nothing will happen.

 

If you stood up and said something approximating the polar opposite, there'd be a concerted effort to have you punished and expelled.

 

And, if anyone wants, I can post page after page of links to accounts of that kind of thing happening over and over again. I'm only saying so because somebody's bound to contend there's no evidence to support that, when in reality there are mountains of it.

 

Again, I didn't start this thread, but if someone is going take take little left-wing potshots, I'm not going to sit back and contribute to the trend taking shape--and not coincidentally--that it is acceptable to espouse liberal views in public forums, but not conservative ones.

[JasmineTea]

What's the difference between conservatives and liberals? If you stand up and say what you just did on a college campus, nothing will happen. If you stood up and said something approximating the polar opposite, there'd be a concerted effort to have you punished and expelled. And, if anyone wants, I can post page after page of links to accounts of that kind of thing happening over and over again. I'm only saying so because somebody's bound to contend there's no evidence to support that, when in reality there are mountains of it. Again, I didn't start this thread, but if someone is going take take little left-wing potshots, I'm not going to sit back and contribute to the trend taking shape--and not coincidentally--that it is acceptable to espouse liberal views in public forums, but not conservative ones.

Ok, but you're still a lousy philosopher. As are all those with a political point of view.

 

Polititics/politicians fail because they are politics/politicians.

[totamus]

I am surprised at the level of apparent "baiting" going on. Well put Hank.

Conservative ideas are caraciturized as narrow minded, bigoted, and self serving. The irony os that it is through such caracitures that "open minded" left seeks to shut down the marketplace of ideas.

I love JTs humor, but this thread was started just to stir the pot, as was Krashes post.

Bad JT. Bad Krash.

[Krash]

I love JTs humor, but this thread was started just to stir the pot, as was Krashes post.

 

 

Hee, hee, hee - we're soooo bad. :poke:

[masterbuilt]

How can Heather have two mommies?

There's a clone in every crowd.

[masterbuilt]

To that I'd like to add that shooting lawnmowers should be legalized. And to that I'd like to add a slice of cheap imitation AMERICAN CHEESE. Also, I think a healthy dose of proper philosophy is in order around here. Unfortunately I'm the only one qualified to dole it out (apparently) and I'm not around much... Another unfortunate is that we can't un-invent the atom bomb, or handguns. So we're {censored}ed. Most people it seems, think the world is just fine the way it is...as though it could never have been any other way. Run a red light, get hit by a truck, die, just another day.

 

 

You're not a philosopher, you're a fatalist.

[Hudman]

 

What's the difference between conservatives and liberals? If you stand up and say what you just did on a college campus, nothing will happen. If you stood up and said something approximating the polar opposite, there'd be a concerted effort to have you punished and expelled. And, if anyone wants, I can post page after page of links to accounts of that kind of thing happening over and over again. I'm only saying so because somebody's bound to contend there's no evidence to support that, when in reality there are mountains of it. Again, I didn't start this thread, but if someone is going take take little left-wing potshots, I'm not going to sit back and contribute to the trend taking shape--and not coincidentally--that it is acceptable to espouse liberal views in public forums, but not conservative ones.

 

 

This stuff drives me nuts.

 

People are constantly polarized by the stereotypical political conservative / liberal political ideology.

 

For instance, there are gay conservatives and religious liberals.

 

The conservatives do not own God and the liberals didn't invent homosexuality.

 

In my experience, most people tend to be moderate.

 

Stop the political stereotyping.

[Maximum]

"Q. - What's the difference between gays and god?

A. - Gays are real."

Again, I didn't start this thread, but if someone is going take take little left-wing potshots, I'm not going to sit back and contribute to the trend taking shape--and not coincidentally--that it is acceptable to espouse liberal views in public forums, but not conservative ones.

 

 

I'm not sure what liberal or conservative has to do with God. In any case, if there is one belief absolutely guaranteed to wreck a political career, it's atheism. Every presidential candidate -- every candidate for almost every office in the U.S. -- is basically required to publicly profess his religiosity and religious faith over and over. Anyone who admitted he is an atheist would not just be unelectable, he would be widely hated.

 

And what does this have to do with guitars? I understood the lawnmower connection, but this one escapes me.

[JasmineTea]

The world we live in is not conducive to human life. Cattle, maybe.

The rich and the cattle.

[Queequeg]

 

And what does this have to do with guitars? I understood the lawnmower connection, but this one escapes me.

 

You can tune up a lawn mower, you can tune a guitar, but you can't tuna fish.

And your political career is pretty much over in this country if you say you don't believe in lawn mowers.

[Hudman]

 

You can tune up a lawn mower, you can tune a guitar, but you can't tuna fish. And your political career is pretty much over in this country if you say you don't believe in lawn mowers.

 

 

The gas mower crowd refuse to acknowledge the existence of electric mowers.

[Queequeg]

The gas mower crowd refuse to acknowledge the existence of electric mowers.

 

Hey now!

The gas mower is a sacred cow.

If you have enough cattle you won't need a lawn mower.

I live in a condo and they won't allow me to keep cattle no matter which church I "claim" to go to.

And you call this a free country?

[panhandler]

Fiber, eat more fiber.

[HankGator]

Probably true. But if you stood up and made the god-doesn't-exist joke in Texas, you might be in for a lot worse than expulsion. And if you made it anywhere in the U.S., you can forget ever being elected to public office..

 

 

That's a load of bunk. I've lived in Texas for over a decade, and I've never seen or heard of any such thing. I know plenty of athiests. They may not be adored by some because of their beliefs, but I've never seen anyone subjected "a lot worse than expulsion."

 

What I'm referring to, on the other hand, is not some fantasy of horrible christians persecuting athiests but a very real phenomenon of the left trying to sanction and sometimes even criminalize the expression of conservative thought. I can supply scores of links to accounts of attempts at punishing conservatives for speaking their minds.

 

What does this have to do with guitars? Nothing. But, of course, that question is only asked in response to my posts, not to any of the others, despite the fact I didn't start this thread.

 

And Queequeeg--this country hasn't been free since we replaced the Reel Mower with gas-powered ones. We put down our rakes and became slaves to having to empty the bag.

[Queequeg]

And Queequeeg--this country hasn't been free since we replaced the Reel Mower with gas-powered ones. We put down our rakes and became slaves to having to empty the bag.

 

You are 110% right. (maybe more)

FREE MRS. O'LEARY'S COW

 

 

[jamesp]

Mulching mowers FTW!

[Crab_Cake]

Q. - What's the difference between gays and god? A. - Gays are real.

Cmon Krash that was a little below the belt.



If anyone is interested I am a hardcore christian, though I am not crazy.

I am also a progressive liberal. Also I am a pacifist and I do not believe in war for any reason.

I am a little all over the map, but I like it that way.


Conservatives need to open their minds a little and stop this whole free market/trickle down economics, it doesn't work.

Liberals need to stop being so politically correct, also they need to ball up and not let the bushies get away with all their crap.


(as a total aside, the Bush admin just retroactively pardoned themselves for all warcrimes commited since 9/11. They also pardoned all the telecom companies who gave them our personal information illegally)


this country is being flushed down the toilet


thats all i have to say on the matter of politics. /rant over

[HankGator]

So, telecommunications companies should be subject to lawsuits for cooperating with the government in terrorism investigations? Your personal information? Did you use your phone to call international numbers on a terror watch list? Give me a break.

And so-called "trickle-down economics" (which is the pejorative term ascribed to it by its detractors) was responsible for the longest peacetime economic expansion in this country's history. It works just fine. It would have worked even better, had the 1986 tax reform act not cut much of the rug out from under it just as the economy had really gained a full head of steam. There is nothing good for the economy about bureaucrats taking money out of the private sector and dishing it off based upon political considerations.

[Crab_Cake]

So, telecommunications companies should be subject to lawsuits for cooperating with the government in terrorism investigations? Your personal information? Did you use your phone to call international numbers on a terror watch list? Give me a break. And so-called "trickle-down economics" (which is the pejorative term ascribed to it by its detractors) was responsible for the longest peacetime economic expansion in this country's history. It works just fine. It would have worked even better, had the 1986 tax reform act not cut much of the rug out from under it just as the economy had really gained a full head of steam. There is nothing good for the economy about bureaucrats taking money out of the private sector and dishing it off based upon political considerations.

 

O god I did not want to get into an argument, thats why I said something bad about liberals. To balance it out.

 

I see that you want to have ourselves a gentlemanly political discussion.

 

What the telephone companies did was ILLEGAL what Bush did by wiretapping our phones w/out a warrant was ILLEGAL a felony offense. With a punishment of 5 years in prison IIRC.

 

Yah of course they should get off scott free. Even though they were committing felonies.

 

The guy who stole your car, he should get off free too. Same thing, different amounts of money.

 

 

 

I love how if you bring up gun control, conservatives will fly off the handle saying that they want freedom, and that they are losing rights.

 

Well the patriot act, wire tapping, and the other bush crimes have taken away more of your rights than gun control ever would. But for some reason conservatives just don't care.

 

 

deserves an epic

 

 

O and trickle down economics don't work the best economy the country ever had was under Clinton. Also back post WW2 we had a great economy, and the rich were being taxed. I am no economist, but trickle down economics sounds like an excuse for the rich people to keep their money. Thats why we have a deficit in the trillions

[Simon76]

What's a progressive Liberal?

[HankGator]

The Patriot Act was passed by congress, signed by the president. By definition, it is the law, not a "crime." Sheesh.

What the telephone companies did was not illegal. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act provides for warrantless wiretapping, and subsequent amendments have expanded the areas where it is allowed. The carriers were only cooperating with the government. They'd consulted their attorneys, and, to their credit, they certainly didn't want to impede the government's attempts to preempt future terrorist attacks. Courts, including the Second Circuit Court of Appeals and the FISA review court have affirmed warrantless wiretaps under FISA as being a constitutional exercise of intelligence power several times. The most recent amendment/extension of FISA you're talking about passed by well more than two-thirds in the house and senate--both controlled by the Democrats. There's a reason they agreed to the immunity. Because to do otherwise would be insane. You can't expect businesses to cooperate and then leave them subject to lawsuits for simply doing the right thing. The immunity they were given was from suit, not from criminal prosecution.

And no, the best economy wasn't under Clinton. And it wouldn't have even been good under Clinton at all had the Republicans not taken over both houses of congress in 94 along with a super-majority of governorships. Gov't spending was about to explode, and the congresssional Republicans instilled some fiscal discipline and effected serious deficit reduction. They've since become more concerned about avoiding criticism in the press and now don't seem to be willing to take much of a stand for anything at all.

It's funny you mention WWII. The government routinely opened people's mail during the war back then. By the tens of thousands. There were hundreds of people whose only job was to do that, and I don't recall American civilians being beheaded or people being murdered by the thousands showing up to work one day in Manhattan. Now, timid half-measures like the Patriot Act evoke frothing hysteria. I sometimes wonder if liberals really give a damn if we even win this war.

Before the "criminal" Patriot Act, if a federal law enforcement agency had evidence of a plot to blow up a bridge, for example, garnered through intelligence sources, they couldn't pass that along to their local counterparts. We had absolutely ridiculous intelligence oversight rules that prevented simple cooperation between different levels of government. Our national security apparatus was a joke. For the most part, it still is, but at least the Patriot Act has tried to clean some of it up.

Yes, I want freedom. Nothing the Bush administration has done that I'm aware of has made me less free. I sometimes wonder if liberals even know what the word means, other than the ability to not have to tolerate anything they don't like. Yes, if I make an international phone call to a number on the NSA's terror watch list, it will be monitored for key words. Oooh. How will I ever sleep from now on. I'm sorry, there are fanatical zealots out there numbering in the hundreds of thousands, with ardent supporters numbering in the tens of millions, who want to see us dead. They are not content to just sit back and wish it or condemn us with harsh rhetoric. I'm glad somebody is taking the threat seriously. If we don't, it's only a matter of time before someone shows up in Times Square with a suitcase nuke.

Actually, your post is a good example of what I referenced before. There's been a distinct trend in the past decade of liberals attempting to criminalize anything they don't agree with in the political realm. Bush didn't commit any crimes. FISA authorized those warrantless wiretaps. The telecommunications companies weren't gaining anything by consenting, they were merely cooperating with official investigations, as authorized by FISA. Bush didn't sit there and pick out people he didn't like and tap their phones. We're talking about federal terror and law enforcement investigations, not political persecutions.

[Scodiddly]

HankGator,

 

You may not have "started the thread", but you've certainly kept it alive and full of bile.

 

So, what guit-box are you playing these days? Dreadnaught or 0000? Taylor or Martin? Gibson or Zager? Choose carefully your answer, young padawan...

[totamus]

This discussion - politically charged - was inevitable. JT's original post was his way of amusing himself and seeing what he could get going.

 

I personally don't see any bile in Hank's response. He has simply stated facts, and done so quite well. I happen to agree with Hank in this area and believe that disinformation is circulated to purely to discredit and demonize anyone who espouses a conservative view. Whether you recognize it or not, a gauntlet was thrown down (several actually). Hank responded well - and without bile.

 

This discussion separates us, and so is not good fodder for this forum, which generally unites us in our common endeavor. I did not anticipate the 2nd amendment debate when I polled for how many of us owns guns. My bad.

 

I have very defined political views as do many of us. TAH is very active on the political forum but never discusses politics here(good job TAH). JT, as colorful a character as I can think of, has set off this minor tempest as diversion in his daily routine.

 

I have several close friends with whom a mutual understanding is that politics are not discussed. One I have known for over 40 years and we are extremely close.

 

When it comes to politics by the way, I find that if a conservative and a liberal actually engage in a serious discussion, they find that they have the same goals in large part. The difference is in the tactical methods to achieve said goals. The pity of it is that our politicians pit us against each other with the simple goals of either gaining control if they don't have it, or keeping control if they do. As long as we all focus on petty politics, politicians stay in power and the country suffers. But I digress.

 

The point is, whether JT wants a diversion or not, we need to maintain the same type of agreement as I mentioned above.

[HankGator]

Bile? Moi? Hardly. That's pretty much straight out of the left-wing talking points ("#6--Always publicly characterize your conservative opponent of spewing bile"). You want bile, go read The Daily Kos, where they're still dancing on Tony Snow's (a very decent man, by the way) grave, or the Democratic Underground, where there's usually no shortage of delightfully urbane things like asian whore jokes about Michelle Malkin, or peruse the line of assassination chic shirts and posters directed at Bush.

Dreadnought, by the way.

[HankGator]

This discussion - politically charged - was inevitable. JT's original post was his way of amusing himself and seeing what he could get going. I personally don't see any bile in Hank's response. He has simply stated facts, and done so quite well. I happen to agree with Hank in this area and believe that disinformation is circulated to purely to discredit and demonize anyone who espouses a conservative view. Whether you recognize it or not, a gauntlet was thrown down (several actually). Hank responded well - and without bile. This discussion separates us, and so is not good fodder for this forum, which generally unites us in our common endeavor. I did not anticipate the 2nd amendment debate when I polled for how many of us owns guns. My bad. I have very defined political views as do many of us. TAH is very active on the political forum but never discusses politics here(good job TAH). JT, as colorful a character as I can think of, has set off this minor tempest as diversion in his daily routine. I have several close friends with whom a mutual understanding is that politics are not discussed. One I have known for over 40 years and we are extremely close. When it comes to politics by the way, I find that if a conservative and a liberal actually engage in a serious discussion, they find that they have the same goals in large part. The difference is in the tactical methods to achieve said goals. The pity of it is that our politicians pit us against each other with the simple goals of either gaining control if they don't have it, or keeping control if they do. As long as we all focus on petty politics, politicians stay in power and the country suffers. But I digress. The point is, whether JT wants a diversion or not, we need to maintain the same type of agreement as I mentioned above.

 

 

 

I second this motion.