Members Galabar Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have to admit, I'm tempted. However, my wife would kill me if I bought another guitar (see list below). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members masterbuilt Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 OTOH, if Music123 does do the honest thing and honor the coupon code because it IS their mistake, you'll have another month to convince your wife that you absolutely had to have the guitar . lol...either way, I hope things work out for ya! I'll play devil's advocate here and say.... or, they can tell the "buyers" that exploitation of a glitch is not honest and cancel everything.I saw this with Compaq monitors when an office full of people bought $350 displays at $25 a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hempomatic Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm a bit surprised paricularly with the number of sigs praising Jesus that no one has even mentioned the moral and ethical issue here. Technically this is fraud, and Omar has technically committed conspiracy to commit fraud. From a legal perspective, entering a code you know is fraudulent to receive monetary compensation you aren't entitled to is larceny, but for some reason it's OK because it's a good deal on guitars? How about the poor schmuck that loses his job because he shipped out a few items without checking the code first. I'm really surprised that so many folks here are this cynical. Would you also walk away from a cashier at Walmart that handed you too much change knowing that they'd have to pay it out of their pocket or lose their job? The title of this thread could also read "hurry, quick way to steal money from unsuspecting idiots". Would it still have such a high approval? Sorry, but this is wrong, plain and simple. ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoTotally Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm a bit surprised paricularly with the number of sigs praising Jesus that no one has even mentioned the moral and ethical issue here. Technically this is fraud, and Omar has technically committed conspiracy to commit fraud. From a legal perspective, entering a code you know is fraudulent to receive monetary compensation you aren't entitled to is larceny, but for some reason it's OK because it's a good deal on guitars? How about the poor schmuck that loses his job because he shipped out a few items without checking the code first. I'm really surprised that so many folks here are this cynical. Would you also walk away from a cashier at Walmart that handed you too much change knowing that they'd have to pay it out of their pocket or lose their job? The title of this thread could also read "hurry, quick way to steal money from unsuspecting idiots". Would it still have such a high approval? Sorry, but this is wrong, plain and simple.ken I was thinking sort of along the same lines last night. But I was thinking about the web programmer or whoever it was that accidentally set this code up to work the way it does. I wonder if he'll be in danger of losing his job when they see the flood of orders that in their queue this morning. I admit I was tempted. But honestly, all morals aside, I just don't have any reason to blow any money right now. In any case, spending money gives me enough anxiety, spending money in a somewhat shady scenario just makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhancox Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm a bit surprised paricularly with the number of sigs praising Jesus that no one has even mentioned the moral and ethical issue here. Technically this is fraud, and Omar has technically committed conspiracy to commit fraud. From a legal perspective, entering a code you know is fraudulent to receive monetary compensation you aren't entitled to is larceny, but for some reason it's OK because it's a good deal on guitars? How about the poor schmuck that loses his job because he shipped out a few items without checking the code first. I'm really surprised that so many folks here are this cynical. Would you also walk away from a cashier at Walmart that handed you too much change knowing that they'd have to pay it out of their pocket or lose their job? The title of this thread could also read "hurry, quick way to steal money from unsuspecting idiots". Would it still have such a high approval? Sorry, but this is wrong, plain and simple. ken I'm not sure of the legal part but this has been an interesting sight to observe.I went to Lowe's, not too long ago, to buy a nail gun and compressor and unknowingly found that they had a more expensive model sitting with the ones on sale that I intended to buy. When the cashier rang up $100 more than I expected, I took a store rep back to where I found it and they pointed out it was the wrong model and admitted that someone must have put it there by mistake. I reminded them that many stores would honor the "marked" price of an item, but I got no reaction other than I could talk to the manager. I knew it was an honest mistake so I didn't press them on it. It just felt wrong.I'm not going to judge. It gave me pause when I first saw it last night and I find it quite surprising the number of people who have participated. The money people can just drop at a moments notice is also cause for pause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm a bit surprised paricularly with the number of sigs praising Jesus that no one has even mentioned the moral and ethical issue here. Technically this is fraud, and Omar has technically committed conspiracy to commit fraud. From a legal perspective, entering a code you know is fraudulent to receive monetary compensation you aren't entitled to is larceny, but for some reason it's OK because it's a good deal on guitars? How about the poor schmuck that loses his job because he shipped out a few items without checking the code first. I'm really surprised that so many folks here are this cynical. Would you also walk away from a cashier at Walmart that handed you too much change knowing that they'd have to pay it out of their pocket or lose their job? The title of this thread could also read "hurry, quick way to steal money from unsuspecting idiots". Would it still have such a high approval? Sorry, but this is wrong, plain and simple.ken Baloney. I have no qualms about taking advantage of corporate incompetence. And who's to say that they won't ship me a blemished guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 It still works........check it out......A Martin D16GT for $786.75 delivered.http://www.music123.com/MyAccount/Cart.aspx?ja=633809076685799018 Funny it doesn't work on Gibsons.....Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wonder which hard working Joe over at Music 123 won't get a much needed raise this year now? It's all fun and games till someone loses an eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members totamus Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm a bit surprised paricularly with the number of sigs praising Jesus that no one has even mentioned the moral and ethical issue here...Sorry, but this is wrong, plain and simple.ken I am a pretty ethical guy. Very ethical. I wouldn't have any qualms about using a discount code. I don't get your point. If an online sales source offers a discount code input area, and you supply a valid discount code, where is the issue here? Discounts reduce the profit margin, they don't "steal" money. You are saying that if you purchase from a retailer, and the retailer makes a profit, but not as much as he might have, you are stealing? Do you believe that the profit margin is less than 25% and the merchant is losing money? Or do you believe that a merchant who publicly offers discounts and then doesn't manage the discount program very well is somehow a victim? It sounds more like a case of savvy consumers keeping up with the best pricing. It may even be intentional. Stores cannot advertise below a set price (minimum advertised price) or MAP. They can however, have discounts that reduce the advertised price. Which results in more buyers purchasing items and thereby increasing revenue. It is basic economics. Music 123 is actually making profit from shoppers who otherwise would not be buying from them at all. Seems to me like they would be happier with a smaller margin applied to a real sale than higher percentage of nothing. See, online stores with low overhead were engaging in capitalism in a free marketplace, which was resulting in really good pricing. Naturally, that just wouldn't do, so manufacturers came up with minimum advertised pricing to ensure that their brands were properly managed (ie prices kept inflated). That is why you find every merchant on line has the same pricing. Music 123 may just be smart enough to get around the issue by using discount codes. But if you believe the store is entitled to a higher profit margin, by all means vote that opinion with your purchases. I am not in a position to utilize this discount, or else I would. Congrats Sangemon on a beautiful guitar at a great price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RogueGnome Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wonder which hard working Joe over at Music 123 won't get a much needed raise this year now?It's all fun and games till someone loses an eye. He just needs an HR coach who will point out the nice spike in sales he single-handedly commandeered in an otherwise deep recession. He deserves a bonus and a weekend at the corporate mountain chalet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 So now I am a bad guy!!! You all know for a fact that even with 25% off these companies are still making tons of money. If they made a mistake like this at programming a working code then it is not our fault. True it was intended for blem items but if works for everything, oh well. Now, to whoever told me I started a conspiracy to commit fraud, what have you done about it? Did you call music123 to tell them about their error? If you did not, you are part of the conspiracy. I am clean in my heart that I've done nothing wrong, just pass a working code that legally gives you 25% off. Thanks and sorry for trying to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I can't believe I am saying this but I think I am all set on the guitar purchases. Even at a great discount, I haven't fully broken in the d28 or the F50 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members revans513 Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 It still works........check it out......A Martin D16GT for $786.75 delivered.http://www.music123.com/MyAccount/Cart.aspx?ja=633809076685799018Funny it doesn't work on Gibsons.....Damn. Everybody knows Gibson doesn't have any blems!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnkline Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I used the code on a true blem item, (bought a boss pedal), so I should be good to go..And not have bad karma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 So now I am a bad guy!!!You all know for a fact that even with 25% off these companies are still making tons of money. If they made a mistake like this at programming a working code then it is not our fault. True it was intended for blem items but if works for everything, oh well.Now, to whoever told me I started a conspiracy to commit fraud, what have you done about it? Did you call music123 to tell them about their error? If you did not, you are part of the conspiracy. I am clean in my heart that I've done nothing wrong, just pass a working code that legally gives you 25% off.Thanks and sorry for trying to help! Isn't it also possible that they are allowing the promotion to apply first quality items as an unadvertised special and it is not a glitch? What if it was called DRUM25, would it be unethical to use it for a guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhancox Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Isn't it also possible that they are allowing the promotion to apply first quality items as an unadvertised special and it is not a glitch? What if it was called DRUM25, would it be unethical to use it for a guitar? If we all knew it was on purpose, there is no issue. The thread and resulting purchases were all under the pretense of taking advantage of a mistake. So, your point doesn't apply. Totally agree with you though. The ethical question goes beyond how much Music123 is still making and so on. It's more a matter of do you deserve to be cheated because you made a mistake? If you leave your keys in your car, is it now legal for someone to drive it away? If you drop your wallet, is it now legal for someone to use your credit cards? Of course not. But did you deserve what you got for your mistake? Same answer. Of course not. Are we supposed to pay the maximum penalty for every mistake we make. I don't think so. We need to learn from our mistakes, but we shouldn't have to suffer some irreparable harm. If you wouldn't want it to happen to you, you shouldn't be doing it to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RogueGnome Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 They have it within their power to renege on any and all unshipped orders.This will unfold as it should and all will be right with the world (except for you unscrupulous ne'er-do-wells who shall burn in hell). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 If we all knew it was on purpose, there is no issue. The thread and resulting purchases were all under the pretense of taking advantage of a mistake. So, your point doesn't apply.Totally agree with you though.The ethical question goes beyond how much Music123 is still making and so on. It's more a matter of do you deserve to be cheated because you made a mistake?If you leave your keys in your car, is it now legal for someone to drive it away? If you drop your wallet, is it now legal for someone to use your credit cards?Of course not. But did you deserve what you got for your mistake? Same answer. Of course not.Are we supposed to pay the maximum penalty for every mistake we make. I don't think so. We need to learn from our mistakes, but we shouldn't have to suffer some irreparable harm.If you wouldn't want it to happen to you, you shouldn't be doing it to someone else. Blatently stealing someone's personal property or money is not at all analogous to applying a discount promotion to a purchase regardless of the intended or advertised limitations on the promo. I've got to think that by now, someone at Music123 knows that non-blemished merchandise orders are STILL applying the discount code and nothing is being done about it. Maybe they ARE allowing it. It usually takes them 1-3 days to ship so they have plenty of opportunity to remedy any issues. They have the means and opportunity to limit the use of the code and/or to cancel orders if they want to. The only one "harming" M123 at this point is themselves. They very well may have extended the offering to any merchandise. Food for thought: Maybe it is M123 who are being dishonest by taking advantage of people who are not saavy enough to use the code. Why do you even need a code? You only get 25% off on blems if you know that it is available to you? So why is it wrong to take 25% off if you know it is available to you on non-blems? Let's say a pro team is giving away a promo item to the first 10000 people to enter the stadium. You get there late, clearly well after 10000 perople have entered and you are given an item. Are you dishonest for taking one if they end up giving away more than 10000? Where do you draw the line on business ethics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Congrats Sangemon on a beautiful guitar at a great price! Thanks Totamus!I have always maintained that my guitars have found me.I happened to go into a guitar store today because I found out that they had a Martin 000C Steve Miller Pegasus, which is an inactive model that is very hard to find and I have been wanting to try one. The 000C had a really nice neck, but there was something seriously wrong with the intonation (which is perhaps why it was still in the store after 5 years, but I digress). It was a big disappointment. Then I saw this Taylor and I usually ignore Taylors in the store but I liked the look of it and I was there looking for a cutaway, so I picked it up. And it totally blew me away. I wanted to buy it right then and there, but it was over 3K with tax and whatnot and I didn't feel that I could do it.When I got home and logged on I saw this thread. I was able to buy this guitar for $2300 with next day shipping when it comes in. It was my guitar karma, it had to be, so I jumped. And if it turns out that they cancel my order, so be it, that will be my karma too, but I'm hoping that another guitar is finding it's way home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I dont get it? The store is offering a discount. It says so right on their website. THEY provided a code to make SURE you will get said discount. Where exactly is the problem? Sounds like y'all are inventing a morality issue here from where there is none. I dont have any incling of proof or evidence that it was a mistake other than that being the O.P's opinion. If it is a mistake, they will remove the code. I want MY discount, Nurse Wratched!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhancox Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've got to think that by now, someone at Music123 knows that non-blemished merchandise orders are STILL applying the discount code and nothing is being done about it. Maybe they ARE allowing it. It usually takes them 1-3 days t oship so they have plenty of opportunity to remdey any issues. They have the means and opportunity to limit the use of the code and/or to cancel orders if they want to. The only one "harming" M123 at this point is themselves.They very well may have extended the offering to any merchandise. Food for thought: Maybe it is M123 who are being dishonest by taking advantage of people who are not saavy enough to use the code. Why do you even need a code? You only get 25% off on blems if you know that it is available to you? So why is it wrong to take 25% off if you know it is available to you on non-blems?Let's say a pro team is giving away a promo item to the first 10000 people to enter the stadium. You get there late, clearly well after 10000 perople have entered and you are given an item. Are you dishonest for taking one if they end up giving away more than 10000? Where do you draw the line on business ethics? No question, the merchant can do as they wish before an item is shipped. It's also very possible that Music123 is doing this on purpose. It also wouldn't be the first time a merchant, of any kind, wasn't up front with a discount in hopes some would pay full price. That's not excusable either. Meowy, to address you example, that's not quite the same thing. A business giving away something to the first x number of people has x number of items to give away. If they have x+1 to give away, what's the difference? They intended to give them all away anyway, whether they had x or x+n. Of course, everyone's level of acceptance is different so this discussion could go on forever. And I'm not judging anyone taking advantage of this deal, just posing the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Meowy, to address you example, that's not quite the same thing. A business giving away something to the first x number of people has x number of items to give away. If they have x+1 to give away, what's the difference? They intended to give them all away anyway, whether they had x or x+n.Of course, everyone's level of acceptance is different so this discussion could go on forever. And I'm not judging anyone taking advantage of this deal, just posing the questions. True maybe not an exact parallel, but there are many shades of greyIf a car dealer or manufacturer has "customer loyalty" price program are they screwing the repeat customer if they give a first time customer the same deal? Bottom line is it's marketing - and if you extend a deal beyond your original target customer base - intentionally or not, I have a hard time seeing any moral dilemna by any party. It is a legal business transaction and no one is stealing form the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoTotally Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Most importantly, I'm curious as hell as to whether these orders are going to process or not. So, the first person to either get a Ship Confirmation or a Order Canceled notice, please post back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oldskool Texas Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Morality is a human invention. I'll sleep quite soundly with my 25% discount, but thanks for trying to save my soul (another human invention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Morality is a human invention. I'll sleep quite soundly with my 25% discount, but thanks for trying to save my soul (another human invention). What is your point with this human inventon stuff? The bed you will sleep quite soundly in is a human invention. The discount code that you used is a human invention. The guitar you wuill buy and play after waking up from your sound sleep in your human invented bed that you bought with your human invented code will also be a human invention. I say GOD bless those humans for inventing all this cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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