LL6 vs. LL16: WTF with the price diff? And Where the F is Queequeg?

[knockwood]

Far as I can tell, the only diff between these two models is solid rose b/s on the 16 vs. lam on the 6. So why the $250 price leap for the 16? Is there something else I am missing? I've not been up close to either model, but have listened to many [bad] recordings of each and they both sound pretty damn good.

 

At the moment I am dreadless. Not that this really matters, but I will seize on any excuse to indulge some kind of GAS.

 

It would be great to have something I can carry around the city without worrying too much. Not a beater, but a good guitar that won't break me if it gets stolen by squirrels or eaten by a homeless man or run over by the A train. I should grab the LL6 when I can. Why am I even considering the 16?

 

And where the f is Queequeg?

And D03nut? I haven't "seen" one of his posts in a "long" time.

 

Also, why do they make CDs so {censored}ing hard to open???

[Melodeous]

I don't know anything about the guitars but I am probably going to look at the Yamaha line soon. I also need an all-terrain player. It won't be a dread, though.

 

Q vanished, gone the way of 3Bfish. Sabbatical possibly. He does travel to the Caribbean sometimes. Headhunters? Voodoo queen's abducted love toy? You never know about that area. do3nut announced his sabbatical. He came back to seek volunteers to critique his music and has since departed again.

 

And, finally, CDs are purposely packaged that way to separate those with and without good motor skills and dexterity. Those who don't and complain publicly about the (any) packaging usually get solicited by AARP.

[C70man]

 

I don't know anything about the guitars ....And, finally, CDs are purposely packaged that way to separate those with and without good motor skills and dexterity. Those who don't and complain publicly about the (any) packaging usually get solicited by AARP.

 

 

Hey, I was solicited by AARP long after I have been hating that damn tape you can't get off the cd cases. The guy who came up with that adhesive should have been locked in a padded room with Slim Whitman music piped in at 120db.

 

I think the next millionaire will be some guy who comes up with another way to package music.

[Florida_Gator]

The LL16 has a slightly different leather label inside the sound hole (which, as you know, has a HUGE effect in the tonal characteristics of the guitar ).

 

BTW, the FG730S is a great "take around with you" guitar also.

[rhancox]

Also, why do they make CDs so fucking hard to open???

 

And they only put twist-ties on a loaf of bread.

[Dave W.]

I think the next millionaire will be some guy who comes up with another way to package music.

 

His name is Steve Jobs, he is already loaded, minus the price of a liver. He didn't invent it, but he made it work, and now with the DRM free high bit rate I can't see buying another CD again. My 56 year old ears just can't tell the difference, thanks to Leslie West and Mountain who I saw repeatdly in the early 70's

[knockwood]

And they only put twist-ties on a loaf of bread.

 

I'm still working on those, but think I'm getting the hang of it. What sets me back sometimes is when you get a lefty or an Aussie doing the packaging so that the orientation of the tie is reversed. Completely throws me off.

[totamus]

[kwakatak]

Probably the biggest difference to me is that the FG's have sitka tops, the L's have Engelmann spruce. IIRC the LL6 are made in China but the LL16s are made in Japan - or was that LL26 and LL36?

[revive]

 

A leather label? Man, this IS going to be a tough choice. I actually have played the FG730S and it's a very good guitar. I just figure I will need a case for whatever I get, so the LL6 isn't that much of a leap in terms of price, and I really like the clips I've heard. I also like the lam necks on the LL6 and '16.

 

 

I gave a lot of thoughts on FG730S vs. LL6. My conclusion was LL6 is a much better deal! You get a better guitar + a nice case for $200 more. If that case is worth $100, that means the guitar itself only costs $100 more than FG730S. That $100 buys you a lot of qualities.

 

I'm less sure if the LL16 is worth the $250 extra especially if you don't have the budget.

[AndrewGG]

Probably the biggest difference to me is that the FG's have sitka tops, the L's have Engelmann spruce. IIRC the LL6 are made in China but the LL16s are made in Japan - or was that LL26 and LL36?

 

Yes, the 26 and 36 (and above, all the way to 86) are built in Hamamatsu, Japan.

 

___

 

 

Yamaha LL26

Martin D-28

[CrisprCas9to5]

Hi.  I'm from Canada.  I was recently in a music store here that has both the LL6 and LL16.  They are priced at $699 and $999.  $300 difference.

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you pick up the LL6 and play it for ANY amount of time, then pick up the LL16, you will NOT put down the LL16 and never touch the LL6 again.

 

I just couldn't believe the difference between the two.  The LL16 just rings forever.  I've played in bands.  I'm an avid finger style guitar player now on acoustic.  As such, I went looking for a new acoustic as my 28 year old acoustic has really run its course and went through two sons jumping on it, caving in the top, basically destroying it, lol.

Still works, but was just time for a new one to last another 28 years.  I searched and researched and played countless acoustics in different cities and stores.

Then I found the LL16.  It killed everything they had in the acoustic room (including the LL6).  I left the store blown away, but without the guitar.  Kept looking around.  Saw it in another store.  It killed everything in that acoustic room too.  This happened 4 seperate times, in 4 seperate stores.  I just kept coming back to it.  $6000 Martin's, $4800 Taylor's, you name it.  The best way to describe it in comparison to other acoustics is to say that it rings, its loud, and hands down has more personality and colour to its tone and expression.

I can't say enough about this acoustic.  The look of it is standard issue spruce top, but it is very nice looking and the colour of the top, because of the ARE process gives the spruce top a more vintage yellow look to it in comparison to the almost 'white' spruce top of other acoustics.  In other words, it looks better.  More unique.  Aged.  Just better, period.  The LL16D ARE model is the same except it has the extra abalone around the spruce top face and all surfaces INSIDE the soundhole/body of the guitar are sanded smooth.  I played both and didn't notice a difference in sound between the D model and regular.  However, the D model with the abalone trim around the whole body absolutely makes the guitar look considerably more magical to my eyes, but this can be said for most guitars with additional 'bling'.  I will say though that an acoustic with abalone trim around the entire face of an acoustic should always be standard as it just really increases the look and class of an acoustic.  However the price for this in this case is an additional $300 for the abalone trim and sanded interior.  To me, it's worth it when you see it in person.  

I played everything.  And I mean everything I could get my hands on.  Though each guitar is it's own voice and everyone is looking for a sound that fits what's in their head, I think a majority of acoustic lovers have that quintessential woody, warmth in their head with a great sustain, resonance and presence.

This IS that guitar.  I promise you.  I highly recommend 80/20 phosphor bronze on this guitar (you'll see why) and in this case the plastic nut and saddle are great.  We all know the inevitable "just change the nut and saddle and it'll blow your mind maaaan" comments that come from some tone hound out there who's more concerned with modding than playing.  

Knock yourself out.  But it doesn't make a lick of difference to me.  Changing the nut and saddle makes the guitar sound "different" NOT "better". 

This guitar sounds amazing as it is.  I can only see it getting even better as it ages. 

Playability?  Jesus.  Nothing like it.  Just play it.  Nothing I say can replace getting it in your hands.  Open tuning, capo'd anywhere on the neck, Eb, bar chords, everything resonates on this thing.  

 

Quality?  I don't have to explain Yamaha quality to you.  If I do then you haven't researched enough.  Keep going.  Yamaha is infamous for their quality.  They make grand pianos for crying out loud!  One thing really worth mentioning here though is that they use an actual dovetail joint between the neck and body.  This is the "expensive" way of mating neck and body and is usually reserved for higher end guitars because of the complexity and labour involved.

It makes a huge difference in sound and vibration.  Speaking of vibration, you feel your whole body vibrate when you do anything on this guitar.  It just sings.  It really does.

A beautiful guitar.  Gold hardware finishes it off.  And man....the smile you get when you play it.....just, well, go play it....you'll see what I mean.  

LL6, although a great quality build, sounded more like every other guitar in the room.  The other acoustics I liked were the Taylor Grand Pacific, any martin cedar top, nothing by gibson unfortunately.  The Martin D-18, 28, etc...not even close to this guitar in my opinion.  It truly is exceptional and a rare animal.  

After purchasing and spending an obscene amount of time getting to know her, it just keeps getting better and better as my hands memorize the curves and subtleties of its tonal characteristics, and reveals what it wants from me.

In my personal opinion, having always had an acoustic as a "therapy device" for life in general, the holy grail of an acoustic is the quality of the "conversation" you get to have with it.  The best dialogue I've ever had with an instrument, hands down.  I've gotten lost for hours with this guitar.  That's the whole point.  Cheers.

[garthman]

Wow! You really, really like that guitar!

[DeepEnd]

8 hours ago, garthman said:

Wow! You really, really like that guitar!

He must. So much so that he resurrected a 9 1/2 year old thread to praise it.

[Idunno]

Age = Irrelevance. If it were a 2009 box of Triscuits I might think differently. The Yamaha line bests all others in their price points, IMO. It's not like they don't know acoustic instruments. I've not played the LL6 or the LL16 but if I had to take a clue from CrisprCas9to5, I'd say he thinks the latter is 10 times better.

[Glenn F]

If I was going for a Yamaha, I'd probably go for a new FG/FS 5. They never did anything for me, though. Rather generic tone, ime.

And the fact that Yamaha makes Grand Pianos is irrelevant. They also make motorcycles.

[Neal]

He likes generic tone.

[Grant Harding]

Nice try Neal. My LL6 is a great guitar by any measure. We took it to 3 music stores when my brother was looking for a high end acoustic and none of them sounded as good, including the American and Australian prestige brands. 

As to the huge post about LL16 love - we did an A/B on 3 of those and they sounded almost identical to the LL6, but not as full or loud. 

[garthman]

37 minutes ago, Grant Harding said:

Nice try Neal. My LL6 is a great guitar by any measure. We took it to 3 music stores when my brother was looking for a high end acoustic and none of them sounded as good, including the American and Australian prestige brands. 

As to the huge post about LL16 love - we did an A/B on 3 of those and they sounded almost identical to the LL6, but not as full or loud. 

😃

[Neal]

8 hours ago, Grant Harding said:

Nice try Neal. My LL6 is a great guitar by any measure. We took it to 3 music stores when my brother was looking for a high end acoustic and none of them sounded as good, including the American and Australian prestige brands. 

As to the huge post about LL16 love - we did an A/B on 3 of those and they sounded almost identical to the LL6, but not as full or loud. 

Oh Grant!  Wasn’t writing about you, or the guitars, it was sort of an inside poke at another in good humor.  Which, of course, has no place in a forum that is serious business!  So, sorry for that, but no, you were not in mind when I was typing.  Now you are though ;)!  But in a good way.

Carry on.

[Grant Harding]

Ha! Carry on good fellow. 😎🎵🎶🎶🎶🎶

[kwakatak]

Wow. 10 years old - and where the heck is knockwood? I finally made a guitar out of that Carpathian he sent me back in 2012.

Seriously, isn't there like a review section at Harmony Central? We've been here long enough to be on staff. I could use a writing gig. It looks like the guy who resurrected this thread needs one too. Now I know how it feels to get hit with a wall of text.

[Stophe88]

OT: I used to come here quite a bit and mostly lurk. recently revived my interest..  good to see you still around kwak. i was wondering about JasmineTea and D03nut, too, and knockwood now that i'm seeing this thread. i hope yall are doing great.

also, RIP steve jobs