Members bigald18 Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 I understand exactly what JT is saying here. Get on here and say you don't think Martin is that great and see what happens. The same with Yamaha. Say that a $5000 guitar is in reality no better than a $1000 guitar in most cases and see what happens. Say you like Zager guitars and see what happens. Argue that laminated back and sides are junk and see what happens. Say you can hear the difference in bridge pin materials and see what happens. But when you disagree with the majority you are attacked and told you don't know what you're talking about. Been there. The thing is, I just let it roll off my back. BigAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Galabar Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 Ok, so we are talking about a majority of forumites disagreeing with you (or at least the more vocal ones disagreeing). Isn't it a good idea to bring out contrary opinions, even if you get attacked? It seems that thick skin and a contrarian attitude would do the forum some good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted July 15, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 Isn't it a good idea to bring out contrary opinions, even if you get attacked? It seems that thick skin and a contrarian attitude would do the forum some good.Yes and no. What has often happened is the enforcing of opinions, and the ganging up of the herd on members with contrarian opinions to the herd, which frequently turns into an arguement about who is right with the winner being the leader of the herd. The question of what gets left in the dust, making the exchange of info moot. I've taken a lot of hits this way and frankly I get sick of being the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 No. Disagreements are easy. Yes and no. What has often happened is the enforcing of opinions, and the ganging up of the herd on members with contrarian opinions to the herd, which frequently turns into an arguement about who is right with the winner being the leader of the herd. The question of what gets left in the dust, making the exchange of info moot. I've taken a lot of hits this way and frankly I get sick of being the target. Maybe the herd doesn't like being called the herd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 I herd that! We're talking goat herds, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Galabar Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 I herd that! We're talking goat herds, right? Well, I for one promise to relate my opinions in as nice a way as possible. And heck, you may change my mind -- it has happened more than once on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gitnoob Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 And you, sir, are a pillar of this community. The more contributors there are like you, the more others will behave themselves. It's funny how society works that way. BTW, this herd thing has been going on forever, and it will continue to. I've been spouting nonsense on the net since 1981. We used to call them "cabals" back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 Like I always say: Either you're forum or againum! BigAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted July 15, 2009 Members Share Posted July 15, 2009 I herd that! We're talking goat herds, right? Maaaaahhhh .... right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oldskool Texas Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 I get sick of being the target. Aww.... poor little victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinchegordo Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 This so the stupidest thread ever.The thing is you gotta take the bad with the good,sift through what you consider crap to find the useful contribute to what interests you and avoid what doesn't.........did I mention this is the stupidest thread ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Galabar Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 This so the stupidest thread ever.The thing is you gotta take the bad with the good,sift through what you consider crap to find the useful contribute to what interests you and avoid what doesn't.........did I mention this is the stupidest thread ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdBega Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 This so the stupidest thread ever.The thing is you gotta take the bad with the good,sift through what you consider crap to find the useful contribute to what interests you and avoid what doesn't.........did I mention this is the stupidest thread ever? So stupid threads interest you?? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodeous Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 This so the stupidest thread ever.The thing is you gotta take the bad with the good,sift through what you consider crap to find the useful contribute to what interests you and avoid what doesn't.........did I mention this is the stupidest thread ever? No. There have been much, much more disappointing threads, pinche. Trouble with stupid threads is they are also subjective - with regard to what is or isn't stupid - so your stupid might be someone else's brilliance. Depends on who's viewing the canvas and who's swinging the brush. The point of this thread is to reveal that many viewers are trying to tell the painter how to paint. How many recommend me threads do we have? How many what strings, what guitar, what (ad nauseum) this or that questions do we have here? A pant-load, Chet. How many answer these questions from real experience or are just echoing what they've heard (herd). Who's posting these threads? Entry-level guitarists. Are the answers experienced advice or just rote memorizations of what someone else has said previously? We don't know so we pass it off as typical forum street-talk. Do these green guitarists know when they're getting the real deal? Probably not. Is there an ethic we collectively assert should be maintained? Silently, yes. So, what to do when the crap becomes too big to swallow? You get the idea. Okay, sometimes it isn't what you say but how you say it right? Most times, yes. Then there are times when no one listens until someone screams. Everyone goes straight to indignant with loads of back-pedaling rationales at work against the loud SOB's social unacceptability. That's the usual knee-jerk. Then there's some thought given to the whole by some, none by others and sides are drawn. I have to say that this time around JT opened this thread with much less gusto than previous attempts to deliver the same message. But, it really is a shoe that fits and brackets the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinchegordo Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 No. There have been much, much more disappointing threads, pinche. Trouble with stupid threads is they are also subjective - with regard to what is or isn't stupid - so your stupid might be someone else's brilliance. Depends on who's viewing the canvas and who's swinging the brush. The point of this thread is to reveal that many viewers are trying to tell the painter how to paint. How many recommend me threads do we have? How many what strings, what guitar, what (ad nauseum) this or that questions do we have here? A pant-load, Chet. How many answer these questions from real experience or are just echoing what they've heard (herd). Who's posting these threads? Entry-level guitarists. Are the answers experienced advice or just rote memorizations of what someone else has said previously? We don't know so we pass it off as typical forum street-talk. Do these green guitarists know when they're getting the real deal? Probably not. Is there an ethic we collectively assert should be maintained? Silently, yes. So, what to do when the crap becomes too big to swallow? You get the idea. Okay, sometimes it isn't what you say but how you say it right? Most times, yes. Then there are times when no one listens until someone screams. Everyone goes straight to indignant with loads of back-pedaling rationales at work against the loud SOB's social unacceptability. That's the usual knee-jerk. Then there's some thought given to the whole by some, none by others and sides are drawn. I have to say that this time around JT opened this thread with much less gusto than previous attempts to deliver the same message. But, it really is a shoe that fits and brackets the topic. My issue with these threads is that we beg the question by arguing semantics....and just like you said no ones view of the same thread ever matches which unfortunately = THE STUPIDEST THREAD EVER Now does it make it less relevant than why solid wood guitars are better than laminate?no, just more exhausting...I have no issue with JT he has a voice here just like you or me....but in the cases of these type of threads,that breath(virtual as it may be) would better serve the world by cooling pies.... its like then then someone has to :poke: then everyone followed by then a little and and then "why solid woods are better than laminates" it just gets to be , BTW this may be the most epic 1500th post ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinchegordo Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 we could save the time and all just and save the ......just an Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 JT raises some good points in this thread. Granted his "tone" at times can rub some the wrong way. However this topic needs to be aired out. I will say one thing this thread had accomplished - it has revealed the true personalities of some on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarist21 Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 I will say one thing this thread had accomplished - it has revealed the true personalities of some on here. As long as we're revealing true personalities, here's mine: (sorry for taking it OT, JT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodeous Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 As long as we're revealing true personalities, here's mine: (sorry for taking it OT, JT) I remember that pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 I understand exactly what JT is saying here. Get on here and say you don't think Martin is that great and see what happens. The same with Yamaha. Say that a $5000 guitar is in reality no better than a $1000 guitar in most cases and see what happens. Say you like Zager guitars and see what happens. . . . . . . Been there. The thing is, I just let it roll off my back. BigAl I do all of these things and will continue to do so (except we don't get Zagers over here so it would be unfair of me to comment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 As long as we're revealing true personalities, here's mine: Sexy cap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 1. Formites tell other forumites what they can and cannot hear. 2. Opinions are enforced, and the herd mentality is encouraged by the enforcers, and the herd. 3. A discussion as to whether handmade guitars are worth the price goes into 10 pages. 4. There are tone def luthiers who get pushy with anyone who can hear subtle differences in saddle material, bridge pins, tunning machines, and of all things, back and side woods. 5. A thread titled "A Forum Where..." gets 6+ pages of replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 I understand exactly what JT is saying here. Get on here and say you don't think Martin is that great and see what happens. The same with Yamaha. Say that a $5000 guitar is in reality no better than a $1000 guitar in most cases and see what happens. Say you like Zager guitars and see what happens. Argue that laminated back and sides are junk and see what happens. Say you can hear the difference in bridge pin materials and see what happens. But when you disagree with the majority you are attacked and told you don't know what you're talking about. Been there. The thing is, I just let it roll off my back. BigAl So basically you want to state your opinion on the board and it not be challenged or discussed at all? What you seem to be complaining about is the nature of conversation. If I state an opinion in any venue, be it forum or at the local pub that most disagree with I will have people voicing their disagreement. For the most part I think these differences in opinion are done politely here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 No. Disagreements are easy.Yes and no. What has often happened is the enforcing of opinions, and the ganging up of the herd on members with contrarian opinions to the herd, which frequently turns into an arguement about who is right with the winner being the leader of the herd. The question of what gets left in the dust, making the exchange of info moot. I've taken a lot of hits this way and frankly I get sick of being the target. Did it ever occur to you that you were the target personally but your opinion was? The only way to keep opinions from being debated is to keep them to yourself. Again I don't say that as a rule to you specifically but to everyone. You state an opinion and people are going to discuss the merits of it sometimes at length. That after all is the purpose of discussion. Or were you looking for a cheerleading, forum where you state an opinion and every claps and cheers and tells you that you in fact did a fantastic job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhancox Posted July 16, 2009 Members Share Posted July 16, 2009 For the most part I think these differences in opinion are done politely here. +1 And then we have examples, like the "...bone saddle in the Alvarez" thread where someone accuses the OP of being a liar because they say they heard a difference between tusq and bone. We all expect disagreement, but you're a liar because of what you hear? That's whacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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