Members electrobaby Posted August 31, 2009 Members Share Posted August 31, 2009 I just got a brand new Yamaha LJX6CA which I love and will become my go to acoustic. Therefore I want it to sound as good as possible. I am considering switching the nut and saddle to bone based only off of what I have read. The local luthier wants $115 to create a custom nut saddle and set up. Questions: 1. Is this a fair price2. Is there enough of a tone difference to warrant the price. thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Oh boy...I've got a feeling this is going to get ugly ! Well, before things get too out of hand, I'll chip in my two cents. Whether or not there's an appreciable difference in tone between plastic and bone is a hotly debated issue. Some folks say that can hear a difference, other folks say they can't. Scientifically, it's impossible to change a variable in a system without affecting the system itself. So changing the nut/saddle material will necessarily affect the tone of the guitar to some degree. Whether or not that difference is detectable is another question altogether. Changing nut material doesn't ever make much of a difference, because once you fret a string, the nut no longer comes into play. Since the nut only affects the tone of open strings, changing what it's made of often has little consequence. In regards to the saddle, the theory is that since bone is denser than plastic, it does a better job of transferring the vibrations of the strings to the top. As I mentioned earlier, some people claim to hear a difference between bone and plastic saddles, whereas other people say there isn't one. Oddly enough, there are also some people who try both and like the tone of plastic better . A lot depends on the guitar itself as well. Some guitars will respond better to a bone saddle, others will sound better with plastic. Stuff like this is VERY subjective, and the only way of really knowing whether or not it'll make a difference is trying it. You might hear a difference where other people won't. As for the price, $115 seems reasonable. Nut/saddle blanks made of bone are relatively expensive and cutting a custom nut/saddle isn't a five minute affair either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BLUtunes Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Based upon my experience with my Yamaha (an LLX6), changing to a bone nut and saddle made a HUGE difference. It just radically improved the tone of the guitar. Of course, as Seagull player pointed out, the nut only makes a difference when you are playing an open string. But should you change the bridge saddle? Oh, yes! Most definitely. As for the price you quoted, I don't know what that kind of work goes for in your neck of the woods, but it seems like a pretty fair price to me for a good setup PLUS cutting and installing a new bone nut and saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chriscarnucci Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I personally believe you can tell the difference, and I like bone better than plastic......usually. A others have said..it depends on the guitar. My 2Cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 this much: ---> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members martinipm Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Just to summarise the future of this thread: Some people think a bone saddle makes a big improvement in tone compared to plastic. Some people think anyone that thinks they can tell the difference is a delusional idiot. I'm a big fan of bone and I do all of my own boning. That makes me a boner rather than a bonee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Keep it stock. Save your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seagullplayer77 Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Some people think anyone that thinks they can tell the difference is a delusional idiot. You are wrong and a liar . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Florida_Gator Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I had a bone saddle made for, and a setup done on, my Yamaha LS6. He also filed the nut a bit (but didn't replace that). It was $70 for everything (very reasonable, IMO). I think $115 for the nut and saddle is very reasonable, especially if that also includes a setup. Going from the stock plastic saddle to bone on the LS6 resulted in about 50% more sustain, and 25%-30% more volume (i.e. a significant, obvious, and wonderful difference). I also changed the saddle in my Yamaha FG730S to bone. That made a noticable difference also, but not quite as much (but then, I did it myself, and don't have the knowledge or tools to file the nut, check for intonation, or shape/sand the new bone saddle perfectly). Long story a little longer: Your Yamaha L-series guitar is good enough, pretty enough, nice enough, and doggone it, I think you'll like it. Bone it. Bone it good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 $115 for a custom bone nut, saddle and setup? That is a hell of a deal!!! Jump on that before he changes his mind!!! My luthier charges $55 for a custom bone nut and $35 for a compensated bone saddle. That's not including the set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members electrobaby Posted September 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 wow thanks for all the replies...I think I might just go for the bone saddle and set up...or at least see the savings. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 1. Is this a fair price 2. Is there enough of a tone difference to warrant the price. 1. Maybe 2. No YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Definitely try installing a bone saddle yourself. I did it myself on both my acoustic guitars by ordering a pre-made saddle from Bob Colosi at www.guitarsaddles.com. His bone saddles are great quality and come with easy to follow instruction on how to sand them to fit. All told, it cost me $25 (including shipping) and about 45 minutes tops for each guitar. Of course, that doesn't count the cost of sandpaper, but that was probably less than $5 too. Don't worry so much about the nut just yet unless your open strings sound dull as opposed to playing with a capo. I have no idea what the going rate is on a bone nut install though. I know that blanks cost around $20 but in order to fit them it's an extremely involved process that IMO requires the practiced hand of a professional luthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 :1. Is this a fair price2. Is there enough of a tone difference to warrant the price. 1. Very fair if the worksmanship is good - I just heard someone at UMGF asking if $140 was a fair price (most felt it was). More than anything, you should also be getting a very good setup for that price.2. Bone is my standard for both nuts and saddles. IHowever, IMHO the material makes less difference at the nut end (and certainly making a new nut is what runs the cost up) so if you really want to save a few dollars, just do the saddle (and the setup). However the term "plastic" can mean a lot, including the popular "Tusq" material which Taylor uses - when I changed my Taylors saddle from Tusq to bone I could hear no difference (others, of course, claim they can). Why don't you just play it a while as it is. Have the shop where you bought it do a setup to your specs. (I think that is part of every new guitar sale) Consider a saddle if and when you decide you are not happy with it - this is the time to really nail the intonation. Consider a nut if there is something wrong at that end, realizing that the nut is the expensive part with very little overall contribution. Happy new guitar day - hope you got a few goats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Good advice to try a setup first and experiment with some different string type combinations before you go the nut and saddle route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axemantony Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hi electrobaby, I dont know what your level yamaha you have, however a bone nut and bone saddle will give your guitar way better tone and action, buying the parts and installing them can be costly, The next guitar you buy look for those features, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members electrobaby Posted September 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 you guys are great...thanks for all the advice...the thing is that it sounds frickin fantastic as it is...just wondering if the swap would automatically make it sound even better...think I will just swap the strings and jamm out on it for a month...then decide....thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 you guys are great...thanks for all the advice...the thing is that it sounds frickin fantastic as it is...just wondering if the swap would automatically make it sound even better...think I will just swap the strings and jamm out on it for a month...then decide....thanks again Hi, if anything I'd recommend you initially invest in a set-up, live with and play your new guitar for while and then decide whether or not to exchange the resin saddle for bone. I typically work with and recommend bone saddles and nuts on newly built instruments, while solely fitting bone saddles to stock instruments. Yamaha L series guitars definitely benefit from replacing their resin saddles with bone and I highly recommend having one fitted. Based on experience, doing so certainly positively influences the performance of their Engelmann soundboards and IMHO improves output by quite a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ccasey Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I recently had a new bone net and compensated saddle carved for my "beater" Alvarez, and think that it made a difference in volume, at least, and also the action of the guitar. I definitely think the guitar projects better and overall sounds better since the change. Is it dramatic enough to be worth a certain amount of money ... can't say. My suggestion is to wait a while and see if you're satisfied with both the action and sound of your guitar and if, at some future point, you feel like making a change, try getting a new nut and/or saddle then. Your plastic nut or saddle may break, giving you an uplanned opportunity to do this ... the original plastic nut on my Alvarez broke after a few years. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PaintByNumbers Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I would just go for the bone saddle with a good setup and leave the nut alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Florida_Gator Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I would just go for the bone saddle with a good setup and leave the nut alone. Agree -- most bang-for-buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I have a Yamaha LJ6 and I put in a bone saddle. It made a huge difference in the tone and sustain of the guitar. I also replaced the plastic bridge pins with bone :facepalm: and it made a slight difference - and I am not wrong and I am not a liar. BigAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wooglins Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I just got a brand new Yamaha LJX6CA which I love and will become my go to acoustic. Therefore I want it to sound as good as possible. I am considering switching the nut and saddle to bone based only off of what I have read. The local luthier wants $115 to create a custom nut saddle and set up. Questions:1. Is this a fair price2. Is there enough of a tone difference to warrant the price.thanks all That is a fair price if the local luthier has a good reputation, and is not just a skilled tech (not that skilled techs are not great). I paid 150 for the setup on my GA4 and I supplied the nut and saddle material (thanks Mr. Collosi). The luthier is very well know and charges abit more, but he is the best in Nashville for Taylors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Just don't scratch your plastic nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.