Members LiveMusic Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I bought a used D35 in great condition last year. I think I paid about $1500. A Johnny Cash model, used, is over twice that much. Is there any difference other than the JC is black and has his name on it? I would kinda like to have a JC model because I like him and I do sing some of his songs but... just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 ...The story behind the custom D-35 is the most interesting. According to the Martin Guitar website, the all-black D-35 custom was built when C. F. Martin III was head of the company and had to be built in secret because C. F. thought an all-black guitar was too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I always wondered if they used inferior grades of rosewood/spruce on those because you don't have to worry...no one will see the pin knots, poor bookmatching, bad color match etc under that black paint.Maybe just send all the reject D-35's where the top cracked and had to be repaired, got a dent that needed to be finished over etc...over to be made into "Johnny Cash model" guitars with the price upgrade. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I always wondered if they used inferior grades of rosewood/spruce on those because you don't have to worry...no one will see the pin knots, poor bookmatching, bad color match etc under that black paint.Maybe just send all the reject D-35's where the top cracked and had to be repaired, got a dent that needed to be finished over etc...over to be made into "Johnny Cash model" guitars with the price upgrade.Just a thought. If those things don't affect tone, then why worry? Martin makes a little more profit and the customers are happy with their black guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members panhandler Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I always wondered if they used inferior grades of rosewood/spruce on those because you don't have to worry...no one will see the pin knots, poor bookmatching, bad color match etc under that black paint. Maybe just send all the reject D-35's where the top cracked and had to be repaired, got a dent that needed to be finished over etc...over to be made into "Johnny Cash model" guitars with the price upgrade. Just a thought. Could be some truth to that... I know for a FACT that during the 60's & 70's many automobiles with crappy quarter panel/roof alignments were the ones to recieve vinyl tops at the factories. What a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 If those things don't affect tone, then why worry? Martin makes a little more profit and the customers are happy with their black guitars. It sort of like if someone sold you a watch that was supposed to be solid 18K gold and it turned out to be gold plated or just solid 10K gold. You go back to the guy furious and he just says "Hey, it looks exactly the same, and keeps the same time...why worry about it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 The relationship/integrity between Martin and Cash makes it pretty unlikely that there's ANYTHING wrong w/ those... The "Henry-era" Gibson Company, otoh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sangemon Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 It sort of like if someone sold you a watch that was supposed to be solid 18K gold and it turned out to be gold plated or just solid 10K gold. You go back to the guy furious and he just says "Hey, it looks exactly the same, and keeps the same time...why worry about it?" Well that's a flawed analogy, but I see your point. Then again, if they are not using any different materials than advertised, and it's only cosmetic flaws in the wood that are masked by the paint, it's really a case of no harm no foul, wouldn't you say? Or is it totally impossible to for you give the Martin Guitar Company any props for anything ever?:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevieb Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 I always wondered if they used inferior grades of rosewood/spruce on those because you don't have to worry...no one will see the pin knots, poor bookmatching, bad color match etc under that black paint... From the standpoint of a guitar being a musical instrument, none of those things make the wood "inferior." They are all cosmetic. Well, maybe "pin knots," whatever they are. So, who cares? But in general, I don't think there is one cent's worth of additional value in celeb. guitars. It's all just marketing to people who do not have a life of their own, and thus are easily led to believe they can assume that of someone famous. How sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crashclc Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 Given the company that makes them and what they're charging for them I would bet you just about anything that there is nothing even slightly "inferior" about the materials or the finish. CF Martin & Co. is a classy outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 Mmmm... Since the 70's I have been hearing the sunburst/opaque finish is to hide inferior wood. Back then, I don't think Martin used a standard S-B, or made opaque finished guitars. It was sort of a Martin owner's slur on Gibsons, etc. While this may haves been true of some budget lines, I doubt it to have been, or be, true of premium guitar makers. On the contrary, I'd assume (I don't rally know), that guitars demanding premium prices, outside of standard production, would recieve a bit more personal attention in wood selection, fit and finish, final inspection. They will be, are made to be scrutinized as true showpieces. As for the market being "sad" people with no lives, well maybe. But some are dedicated fans that think it's worth it to pay homage to a hero, to own a guitar of the same specs/design. Hey, I'd love to have a David Bromberg model. Not to steal his mojo in place of my own, but because he's a great guitarist and it's a great guitar. But I'd be just as happy with a 0000 or Jumbo that wasn't sig'd. So is a sig'd or Ltd Edition guitar worth the extra $$$? Not to me, and apparantly not to the market. Resale value is usually not comensurate with the elevated asking price. But if it's worth it to you, buy and be happy. Now, I do own a Nick Lucas reish. It's been a long time since Nick was a celebrity endorser for Gibson or had any impact on the guitar buying public. But I've loved every NL I ever played, and the chance to get a LTD edition "Sig" model new from the Bozeman plant (Doing exceptional work at the time) was worth it to me. I was happy to pay a premium price for it. I'm even happier it is an exceptional guitar made to the highest standards. I also have a Bill Monroe LTD edition mando. Top of the mark, and now selling for more than twice what I paid for it. Yeah, part of that value may be in the name. But the rest resides in quality. Exceptional quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted November 30, 2009 Members Share Posted November 30, 2009 There was a while when blond guitars demanded premium prices over sunburst (even though sunburst required more work) in the vintage guitar market for that very reason. It was a suspicion. I'm not saying it's valid, but it was there and it affected prices. Personally I agree that cosmetic issues have no effect on sound. Rare woods like Adirondack spruce are getting hard to find in large pieces bookmatched, without pin knots, visible runnout, with tight uniform grain and uniform color.Adi is getting hard to find 8" bookmatched without those pesky red streaks.What about making the top out of 4 pieces? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make any difference at all in sound, and it would make some rare wood go further, maybe even make a better guitar in terms of having a top with tighter grain possible. But some people would bitch if they knew about it. Some people would swear they could hear the difference and an otherwise perfect guitar would all of a sudden sound bad. Brazilian rosewood is another wood that has cosmetic issues these days.Personally I agree that that stuff can make a great guitar...but I also understand a company using wood to the most and that that stuff might be going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TenToneHammers Posted December 23, 2019 Members Share Posted December 23, 2019 On 11/30/2009 at 11:48 AM, guitarcapo said: If those things don't affect tone, then why worry? Martin makes a little more profit and the customers are happy with their black guitars. It sort of like if someone sold you a watch that was supposed to be solid 18K gold and it turned out to be gold plated or just solid 10K gold. You go back to the guy furious and he just says "Hey, it looks exactly the same, and keeps the same time...why worry about it?" Martin has never claimed that the JC- D35's were made from top grade, flawless wood supplies...only that they were made from Englemann Spruce, East Indian Rosewood & various other materials & accents required for assembly. As long as they sound beautiful, as, being a Martin guitar, I'm quite sure they do, they will continue to build them, people will continue to desire them & I will continue to buy them...regardless of what is "hidden" beneath the black finish that, due to the history, collectability & value, is hopefully never revealed. Even if it is the case that Martin devised a brilliant method of repurposing their damaged, defective or undesirable wood supplies, in a way that makes them even more desirable and more valuable to its consumers & in a world that is expediently depleating what precious little is left, which is quite unlikely to begin with based on their known & admirable morals, ethics & longevity as a company that every US citizen should be proud of to call "one of their own", it matters very little to those that matter. It would just be smart... no, genious in fact... business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 23, 2019 Moderators Share Posted December 23, 2019 well, unfortunately this discussion ended ten years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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