Members S~R~O Posted January 1, 2009 Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 And indeed, since the neck-body assembly is so crucial for intonation and playability of the guitar I though I'd better keep that as simple as possible. Laurent~ that's what big Rubber Headed Mallet is for. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 Laurent~ that's what big Rubber Headed Mallet is for. :poke: I don't get it; what do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members S~R~O Posted January 1, 2009 Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 I don't get it; what do you mean? Look in PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 Look in PM Ok, so a mallet's a hammer haha, good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 By the way, there's one very simple tool that I also consider buying: a straight-edge with measurements in inches! It is quite bewildering to have to listen to or read instructions going on about sixteenths of inches all the time while recalculating that to milimeters in your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Melodeous Posted January 1, 2009 Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 By the way, there's one very simple tool that I also consider buying: a straight-edge with measurements in inches! It is quite bewildering to have to listen to or read instructions going on about sixteenths of inches all the time while recalculating that to milimeters in your head LOL. I have these in a multitude of lengths from 3-feet on down to 6-inch machinists rules. But, there are free on-line metric converters. Take all your plan measurements and use one of the on-line converters. Then write each metric value in parenthesis next to its inch equivalent on the plan before you start the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted January 1, 2009 Members Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've tapped wood myself while building guitars but I never could make heads or tails of how it would translate into "tuning" towards a certain resonant frequency. I mean if you tap the back you might get one frequency, and then when you join it to the sides another, join the top on another, add the bridge another, finish the guitar and the sound changes again.All I really listen for and feel for is that the wood isn't to thick that it won't vibrate well. Mainly I tap the plates to make sure they are responsive and there is no deadness from maybe a brace not being glued well. I really don't fine tune the sound of my guitars until they are assembled, strung up unfinished, and I'm fine sanding the soundboard. I do agree that most dred guitars have that resonant frequency around A. Whenever I'm controlling feedback with my Baggs Para EQ preamp, that's the frequency I have to dial down to keep feedback from showing up with most of my guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2009 No, even while I am Dutch, I wasn't experimenting with new ways of consuming glue as a narcotic. Actually, today I really started building my Stewart-MacDonald Dreadnought kit (which has, I happened to notice the other day, exactly the same specifications as a Martin D-28, except for the bolt-on neck in my kit). Nothing spectacular yet, but I have, trying to be as accurate as possible, glued the tailblock. Tomorrow I'll do the neckblock. These first steps have to be done quite carefully, I understood, as they are the basis of everything that will follow, so they made me feel a bit uneasy. I tried a few times without glue, then put on the glue and clamped it, only to disvover that it WAS not correctly aligned then!. But of course that can still be corrected immediately, which is why I checked it immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted January 18, 2009 Members Share Posted January 18, 2009 These kits are nice because a lot of work is already done to the sides...a lot of it might not even be noticed. First of all the sides are planed perfectly flat on one edge and the other side has that slope cut into it so that the back is curved. The sides are of course bent..but they are also sanded well and any burns marks from the heat press cleaned up. Since the sides have been cut so well, you might get away with not even using a mold...but be aware of something: the block that accepts the neck needs to be lined up and straight when it's glued to the back and top. If it isn't, the neck won't be in line with the body of the guitar when you insert the neck tenon into the block that isn't lined up (and now can't be moved). This can be overlooked. It's not enough that the top and back centerlines meet up with the block's center. The block can't be skewed. The back of the block needs to be perpendicular to the centerline. A mold make this easy since clamping the rim to the mold at the neck block forces it to be aligned. Another detail to watch is that the block be exactly perpendicular not only to the centerline, but also lined up so as not to create too high or low action.I realize that you can correct somewhat for a block that's slightly off by carving the neck tenon area when joining the neck to the body later...but it saves a lot of work if you can make all that less necessary by gluing up the box in alignment beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Another detail to watch is that the block be exactly perpendicular not only to the centerline, but also lined up so as not to create too high or low action.I realize that you can correct somewhat for a block that's slightly off by carving the neck tenon area when joining the neck to the body later...but it saves a lot of work if you can make all that less necessary by gluing up the box in alignment beforehand. Excatly, that was pointed out at the kitguitar builder's site as well. That site has some really good additional tips. You could easily screw up a lot in this very first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted January 19, 2009 Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hi Laurent, I'd recommend - at this point - you keep your end blocks square and perpendicular to your working board as they need to be kept true along both plains whilst imagining the soundboard is in position on your soundboard. One simple method is to lay a sheet of crafting paper/card onto your workboard/solera with the outline of the soundboard drawn onto it and clamp both neck and tail blocks into their respective locations. Carefully square each block with your workboard and clamp into place - checking they are perpendicular/square to your working surface in all directions - before gluing and clamping the sides into place. Work as though the soundboard is in position on the workboard and these simple steps will make life much easier as you progress through the build. Molds make life simpler if you're going to make a number of the same sized instruments in succession, but aren't vital for one-off builds and using a workboard/solera is a traditional method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted January 19, 2009 Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 In which direction can it still be skewed when both the centerline are lined up then? I had indeed realized that this is a crucial part of the construction. I think one way to visualize the error that's possible would be to take the rim once it's glued together (without the top and back glued on) and attach the neck to it into the neck block's cavity. (I guess you'd have to cut out the bit of rosewood covering the cavity to do this...but you'll have to do this sooner or later anyway. Anyway once you have it together you can see how easily the neck can move in two different planes without the back and top glued to the block to keep it fixed in a single true aligned position. The sides flex with a springlike action in different ways. It doesn't take a lot of movement at all to create horribly wrong action or to have the neck totally off alignment with the centerline. You really shouldn't count on the block's gluing surfaces gluing flush with the top and back to help you with alignment. Clamping thin plates will allow the black to appear glued flush even when they aren't. Besides, even if they are flush, they can still be off along the centerline plane. This might help you visualize how critical the neck block's positioning is when you glue the top and back on without the benefit of a mold to hold it in alignment. I'm not saying it can't be done...but if you aren't using a mold it's one area you need to watch out for. There are two areas of alignment that you have to watch. One is the plane of alignment that determines the neck's action and string height. This is the "neck set" angle that is adjusted when people do a neck reset. The second is the alignment of the neck with the centerline of the guitar. If this is out of alignment, you'll have to move the bridge so that the line joining the two top pieces doesn't bisect the bridge exactly in the middle. Otherwise the strings will pass over the edge of the fingerboard on their way to the bridge on either side. Once the box is assembled, you CAN adjust for these things by taking wood off the sides of the neck to adjust the centerline alignment, and you can also adjust for the action by taking wood off the bottom of the neck at the heel area...but you want to avoid gross errors in alignment because you can get a hump in the fingerboard where it meets with the body if you rely on this fix too heavily. It's a bit of a hassle to fix things along the other plane too. Hope I'm not sounding too confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ok, I see what you mean now: so you have to take really care once you start assembling the back or top, that's the moment it all gets fixed. A mold would help, indeed. Right now the only thing I can do is make sure the block is glued straight on to the sides.I remember seeing a photoshoot or a scene in the DVD stressing the need to make sure everything is perpendicular indeed, but I couldn't find it yesterday. I think one way to visualize the error that's possible would be to take the rim once it's glued together (without the top and back glued on) and attach the neck to it into the neck block's cavity. (I guess you'd have to cut out the bit of rosewood covering the cavity to do this...but you'll have to do this sooner or later anyway. Anyway once you have it together you can see how easily the neck can move in two different planes without the back and top glued to the block to keep it fixed in a single true aligned position. The sides flex with a springlike action in different ways. It doesn't take a lot of movement at all to create horribly wrong action or to have the neck totally off alignment with the centerline.This might help you visualize how critical the neck block's positioning is when you glue the top and back on without the benefit of a mold to hold it in alignment. I'm not saying it can't be done...but if you aren't using a mold it's one area you need to watch out for.There are two areas of alignment that you have to watch. One is the plane of alignment that determines the neck's action and string height. This is the "neck set" angle that is adjusted when people do a neck reset. The second is the alignment of the neck with the centerline of the guitar. If this is out of alignment, you'll have to move the bridge so that the line joining the two top pieces doesn't bisect the bridge exactly in the middle. Otherwise the strings will pass over the edge of the fingerboard on their way to the bridge on either side.Once the box is assembled, you CAN adjust for these things by taking wood off the sides of the neck to adjust the centerline alignment, and you can also adjust for the action by taking wood off the bottom of the neck at the heel area...but you want to avoid gross errors in alignment because you can get a hump in the fingerboard where it meets with the body if you rely on this fix too heavily. It's a bit of a hassle to fix things along the other plane too.Hope I'm not sounding too confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ok, tonight I'm going to proceed wit the neck block and take all your tips into consideration. What is a solera, by the way? Hi Laurent,I'd recommend - at this point - you keep your end blocks square and perpendicular to your working board as they need to be kept true along both plains whilst imagining the soundboard is in position on your soundboard. One simple method is to lay a sheet of crafting paper/card onto your workboard/solera with the outline of the soundboard drawn onto it and clamp both neck and tail blocks into their respective locations. Carefully square each block with your workboard and clamp into place - checking they are perpendicular/square to your working surface in all directions - before gluing and clamping the sides into place. Work as though the soundboard is in position on the workboard and these simple steps will make life much easier as you progress through the build.Molds make life simpler if you're going to make a number of the same sized instruments in succession, but aren't vital for one-off builds and using a workboard/solera is a traditional method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted January 19, 2009 Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 I always thought it was a cool convertible made by Toyota that I can't afford...but that's a SOLARA..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted January 19, 2009 Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Ok, tonight I'm going to proceed wit the neck block and take all your tips into consideration.What is a solera, by the way? A solera is a workboard on which you build a guitar. An example can be found on this page; http://www.patmaillouxluthier.com/en_introduction.htm A practical method for fitting neck and tail blocks which can be applied without the soundboard in place; [YOUTUBE]vmCxjvok4go&feature=related[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]-bjANFei6Sg&feature=related[/YOUTUBE] This person is using a workboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted January 19, 2009 Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 I always thought it was a cool convertible made by Toyota that I can't afford...but that's a SOLARA..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted January 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Gary, you have a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gary Palmer Posted January 19, 2009 Members Share Posted January 19, 2009 Gary, you have a PM. Reply sent my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted February 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2009 So, after two weeks delay because of some unexpected circumstances, last weekend and tonight I made some progress again with my Stewart-MacDonald Dreadnought kit guitar. Last weekend I prepared the inside mold and the waist clamp, because this involved some noisy power sawing which I prefer not to do at night, living in an appartment with neighbours all around me. So tonight I could proceed with glueing in the so-called kerfed linings. Like with programming and working on my classic car, the problems always pop up where and when you don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalhead666666 Posted February 3, 2009 Members Share Posted February 3, 2009 Nice, this is probably where I'll be on my acoustic tonight too. I bought a bag of clothespins and they weren't strong enough so I bought a pack of rubber bands and rubber banded them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted February 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2009 You put rubber bands on all your clothespins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalhead666666 Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 You put rubber bands on all your clothespins? yeah, I think there just week because there cheap clothespins though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigald18 Posted February 4, 2009 Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 One thing you should remember is that you don't need a large amount of force to hold the linings in place. Just enough to squeeze excess glue from the joint. BigAl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaurentB Posted February 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2009 One thing you should remember is that you don't need a large amount of force to hold the linings in place. Just enough to squeeze excess glue from the joint. BigAl Off Topic: I finally understand your name: 'Big Al D-18'... all this time I have been wondering where the name Bigald came from Indeed, the linings seem to be in place firmly now. Next is the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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