The Beginner Player Questions, Answers and Advice

[Melodeous]

One thing fingerstyle does is set the meter. Fingers learn a pattern and begin to move like a second hand on a clock. They just do that naturally like drumming fingers on a table. Timing becomes natural and can be given to flat picking easier than the other way around. The BPM's might be high or low but the cadence is usually spot on throughout a song.

As much as I agree that learning chord transitions (fretting hand) is important the result is a compromise of the right hand's progress. I tend to think both hands must progress together or a person will become one-hand-stupid. Finger picking is not hard. I've said this before. It's simply not the monster folks run from. Learning a basic pattern puts the fingers in motion on the strings. It's a repetitive thing that's scads easier than learning chord placements. Once muscle memory knows the pattern you can forget completely about that hand as it plays while working up comps for it with the fretting hand. This way progress is with both hands and soon enough they're playing for each other almost naturally while you sit in audience of it.

[Hudman]

 

One thing fingerstyle does is set the meter. Fingers learn a pattern and begin to move like a second hand on a clock. They just do that naturally like drumming fingers on a table. Timing becomes natural and can be given to flat picking easier than the other way around. The BPM's might be high or low but the cadence is usually spot on throughout a song. As much as I agree that learning chord transitions (fretting hand) is important the result is a compromise of the right hand's progress. I tend to think both hands must progress together or a person will become one-hand-stupid. Finger picking is not hard. I've said this before. It's simply not the monster folks run from. Learning a basic pattern puts the fingers in motion on the strings. It's a repetitive thing that's scads easier than learning chord placements. Once muscle memory knows the pattern you can forget completely about that hand as it plays while working up comps for it with the fretting hand. This way progress is with both hands and soon enough they're playing for each other almost naturally while you sit in audience of it.

 

 

I learned flat picking first. I was never interested in fingerstyle until I came here. Kwak sold me on it.

 

Flat picking can be complex: Alternate picking, sweep picking and palm muting require practice. Some fingerstyle players think it's difficult to play with a pick. I find it to be very easy. I guess it all boils down to your background.

[owlshead]

HI popytater. Personally, I'm with Hudman on this. While I dig that you want to be as well rounded a player as possible, all three of these require a very different set of skills. Remember, on a very basic level your trying to rewire your brain and neural pathways to do things that they're not used to doing. The thing about guitar is that it involves doing a number of different things at one time, and it's all new skills, like learning to walk, talk and chew gum at the same time. If your a young-un, that's not so hard. Kids are doing that all the time. It's only when you get older, like me, and your brain is settled in it's routines that taking on new skills becomes a bit more difficult and the complexities more apparent. Of the three you mention, strumming chords, which to me translates to rhythm playing, seems to get the least amount of respect from players, and so the least amount of attention. But rhythm is the heart of it all, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it's great to be able to flatpick leads, or finger pick like Merle or Doc, but without developing a good sense of rhythm, what's the point? Frankly, there ain't nothing like a good rhythm player, as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I think new players should concentrate on strumming chords and getting their rhythm chops together before branching out. Rhythm isn't flashy, and a lot of people I think give it short shrift, but it's the rhythm that gets people tapping their feet. For me, it's the heart and soul of of music, and there's much more skill to being good at it than a lot of people seem to realize. By all means, keep some flatpicking in your practice routine, but maybe leave the fingerpicking for some other time. That's just my $0.02. DEP

Great stuff DEP

I am a rhythm player for sure...

When I started (really started I should say, after several false starts)

Well... a girlfriend broke up with me... I was 20 going on 21 (1982/83).

Anyway a guy who had been living with me left his acoustic guitar... and I had a friend at the time that really played well so I picked up some things from him... finally bought my FG340II.

I had listened to the Beatles inside and out (great for sense of rhythm i think) from about the age of 5 or 6... and was really into the Grateful Dead at the time (early 80's) so a Bob Weir fan (again rhythm)... Bertha, Good Lovin' are ones I played a lot back then... wake up little suzy etc.

So listen to A LOT of music... find some songs you like to play and "REALLY LISTEN" headphones are great!

You don't have to break up with a girl... but the blues help push you forward

[ccasey]

A lot of good posts here. Not really adding anything completely new, but I want to emphasize the points made above re: good posture and related issues. It is very important to long term healthy playing as many more musicians develop repetitive motion injuries than most people probably realize (including myself until recently).

Case in point: me. I've played casually for years, on and off, with no troubles. I recently did a short stint playing electric in a cover band with some buddies, though, and had to learn a bunch of tunes in a short period of time. Lots of rock stuff with barre chords and heavy strumming (e.g., Green Day, "Holiday"). I spent a whole lot of time hunched over my guitar in a bad chair in front of my computer, playing to itunes or youtube vids, without taking good breaks. The result ... a flare up of tendonitis (I guess) in both elbows, which fortunately has been relatively mild, but still caused some discomfort when playing.

So, beginners, get a good chair and be mindful of your posture. Try to apply as little pressure with your fretting hand as you can use and still produce good clean notes. A good instrument setup well will help a lot in this regard. Particularly take care when you're learning barre chords which, for many people at least, will be a challenge at first and very hard on your hand muscles. And take regular breaks. Let your arms and hands dangle and shake them out between exercises or songs. Don't stay tensed up for long periods of time. It can cause you harm, especially if you're into middle age or older (I just turned 40).

I've been trying very hard to be mindful of my own advice here lately, and even though I'm playing mostly acoustic right now (which could be even tougher on the body) I'm happy to say my elbow pain has reduced significantly, without my having to quit playing for a period of time.

Chris

[crashclc]

There is no switch. It's more like molasses pouring. Uphill. Player-dependent. Your technique evolves. As a strummer you will begin to pick out notes you know will work to color your playing and use to transition from one chord to the next. This will increase and pretty soon you'll work out phrasings of strum/note technique and further it to a general style. It is also called chord/melody where the chord is strummed in conjunction with picked notes where the strumming holds the rhythm and the notes lead, or reveal, the melody. A fingerpicked counterpart is where chords are used and the fingers keep both rhythm and melody. Advancing through this the fretting fingers begin to lead the plucking fingers on to melodies within each chord structure and into the next providing both color and transitions (chord and/or melody changes). When you begin to add the picked note melody to your strumming rhythm you've moved to the next level. You'll explore that and move to the next level which will be predominantly picked note lead. Fingerpickers, because their muscle memory for each finger has taught them the notes on each string/fret, typically get to know their fretboards earlier on than strummers. Key thing to work on is your ear. You'll develop that quickly for chord intervals as a strummer but listening for individual note intervals isn't as evident in the mix of a strummed chord. As you start to introduce picked note melodies you will experience those note intervals and remember them. It's almost as much a feeling as it is sound. You'll know what works and begin to learn what else works both in and out of key. This little journey is as much ear as it is hands, if not more. The mechanics of playing is also economized with progress. You'll know when a full chord isn't needed, or even detrimental to the tone of the piece. The latter is more of an ear judgement call, though. But, toil of playing will become lessened on your fretting hand and fluidity will increase with the economies learned with experience.

Wow that's one of the best posts I've ever read here. Bang on the money.

[owlshead]

I've been trying very hard to be mindful of my own advice here lately, and even though I'm playing mostly acoustic right now (which could be even tougher on the body) I'm happy to say my elbow pain has reduced significantly, without my having to quit playing for a period of time. Chris

 

 

 

I think I heard or read somewhere Richard Thompson say that when he plays acoustic he has to work a lot harder or it is harder or something like that...

 

versus playing electric... I would imagine as great a player as he... that would apply for most folks (i don't play electric so don't know first hand).

[kwakatak]

I learned flat picking first. I was never interested in fingerstyle until I came here. Kwak sold me on it. Flat picking can be complex: Alternate picking, sweep picking and palm muting require practice. Some fingerstyle players think it's difficult to play with a pick. I find it to be very easy. I guess it all boils down to your background.

Aw shucks, Hud. Much oblige. I have to say; it ain't easy and you really have to work at it to keep your fingers nimble. I never thought I'd ever say this but you really have to take care of your hands. I have to work hard at keeping my hands properly hydrated and the nails neatly trimmed.

As for nails, I've found that not too much nail is really necessary; just a little bit extending past the flesh. That's what Laurence Juber claims to use and I've found that I get a warm but clearly-articulated tone from even my dread.

Our buddy Joe here also turned me on to using a thumb pick, which takes some adjustment. I also learned elsewhere (I think it was over at APM) that it's best to sand down the plectrum to suit your needs. IIRC one of them babysits one of Tommy's many guitars that live abroad (I've read he's got about 100 staying with people around the world and he visits them over dinner) and received one of his thumbpicks after a show. It was sanded down pretty low - almost in the manner that Juber files down his fingertips. I did that with a yellow Fred Kelly thumbpick that Melodeous gave me at a jam in Conyers, GA a couple years back and it's worked pretty well.

...when I can find it, that is. Odds are it fell in the lint trap in the dryer again.

[andy thompson]

As for nails, I've found that not too much nail is really necessary;

 

 

wHAT HE SAID

[ccasey]

Haven't tried a thumbpick for more than a minute or two but would recommend it as an option for beginning fingerpickers. Works quite well for Pete Huttlinger (thumpick plus fingernails ... no fingerpicks, which he espouses great disdain for) and many, many other great pickers.
Chris

[poppytater]

Keep it up !

[Hudman]

Haven't tried a thumbpick for more than a minute or two but would recommend it as an option for beginning fingerpickers. Works quite well for Pete Huttlinger (thumpick plus fingernails ... no fingerpicks, which he espouses great disdain for) and many, many other great pickers. Chris

 

I'm trying to get more comfortable using a thumb pick.

[tbry]

I'm trying to get more comfortable using a thumb pick.

I have seen and even talked with Tommy Emmauel...he does small shows around here every year...he says get a thumb pick and learn to use it.

[poppytater]

For the next few weeks, I'm going to have limited practice time, maybe 15 minutes a day. Any ideas on what to spend my time on? Chords, scales, song etc? Thanks to all.

[Melodeous]

For the next few weeks, I'm going to have limited practice time, maybe 15 minutes a day. Any ideas on what to spend my time on? Chords, scales, song etc? Thanks to all.

 

 

That's entirely up to you. Do something you get satisfaction doing. I say that because 15 minutes isn't a lot of time to get comfortable and have fun so do something you like most. Get your 15 cents worth.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

Speaking of thumbpicks...is it the norm to use just a thumb pick and no finger picks?. I might be able to get used to a thumb pick alone but finger picks drive me crazy.

[Hudman]

Speaking of thumbpicks...is it the norm to use just a thumb pick and no finger picks?. I might be able to get used to a thumb pick alone but finger picks drive me crazy.

 

Yes, it seems to be very common to use a thumb pick with bare fingers.

[andy thompson]

Speaking of thumbpicks...is it the norm to use just a thumb pick and no finger picks?..

Jansch copied Big Bill Broonzy with your school of thought

[Melodeous]

I tried all the finger pick products out there. While I could use them for slow stuff they flew off my fingers when going up-tempo and I wasn't going to glue them on. Plus, they collided against each other when playing and that bugged the crap out of me. So, now I just use my nails - fake when needed - and a thumbpick.

 

Thumbpicks have been discussed here many times but there always seems to be a new crowd when the subject comes up. If anyone is interested in trying them I might suggest getting Fred Kelly's yellow Delrin Slick Picks. It's a paddle blade pick. Another is his Speed Pick which is basically shaped like a 3-tine fork with the middle tine longer and slightly wider. I use both. The yellow are the light gauge. Orange is a medium. Delrin is a softer, more conforming plastic than polycarbonate. Poly's really bite into the thumb and require boiling and shaping - messing with - to create a moderately comfortable pinch-band around the thumb. Delrin needs no such treatment. Google Fred Kelly Thumbpicks and look for the Speed and Slick picks. He also makes fingerpicks that slip onto the fingertips. I tried them but it would seem ol' Fred thinks all fingertips are tapered and dainty. Mine look like and are about the same size as a genuine Cuban Cohiba. Suffice it to say I nixed them.

[Hudman]

I tried all the finger pick products out there. While I could use them for slow stuff they flew off my fingers when going up-tempo and I wasn't going to glue them on. Plus, they collided against each other when playing and that bugged the crap out of me. So, now I just use my nails - fake when needed - and a thumbpick. Thumbpicks have been discussed here many times but there always seems to be a new crowd when the subject comes up. If anyone is interested in trying them I might suggest getting Fred Kelly's yellow Delrin Slick Picks. It's a paddle blade pick. Another is his Speed Pick which is basically shaped like a 3-tine fork with the middle tine longer and slightly wider. I use both. The yellow are the light gauge. Orange is a medium. Delrin is a softer, more conforming plastic than polycarbonate. Poly's really bite into the thumb and require boiling and shaping - messing with - to create a moderately comfortable pinch-band around the thumb. Delrin needs no such treatment. Google Fred Kelly Thumbpicks and look for the Speed and Slick picks. He also makes fingerpicks that slip onto the fingertips. I tried them but it would seem ol' Fred thinks all fingertips are tapered and dainty. Mine look like and are about the same size as a genuine Cuban Cohiba. Suffice it to say I nixed them.

 

I have a few of the Fred Kelly Slick Picks in polycarbonate. I will try the Delrins. I think the softer surface will work better. The poly's are a little too stiff and bright. It makes the bass lines pop a bit too much at times. I have trouble controlling the pick attack. I filed one down hoping I could catch more of the edge. It works better, but still too bright.

 

On a side note: Long finger nails are not an option for me because I work with my hands. I rip or crack my nails whenever they grow a bit beyond the edge of my finger tips on my picking hand. Thankfully, I have thin fingers that combined with my finger tip callouses allows me to get a nice bright tone with decent volume. I know finger nails would work better, but that's not possible.

 

Thanks for the tip Joe. I'm going to order a couple of the yellows and oranges and give them a go. I really want to be able to improve my fingerpicking skills. The thumb pick is an essential tool to doing it without losing tone (when using a bare thumb). I hope the softer Delrins balance out my picking tone.

[andy thompson]

a bit beyond the edge of my finger tips

Know what you mean, Ive lately started dressing my nails with the file perpendicular to the ends of my fingernails ie from nail to pad, looking at your hand from the side it would resemble a T.

The nail only comes into play just before release, my tutor realized I was doing this before I did:eek:

Try having your nails flush with the ends of your fingers, I havent had to worry about tearing, more precision and harmonics sound louder.

Just me, I"m FAR from proficient but it helped.


Im looking for something to polish the outside of my nails to stop a slight rasping sound.

Also thinking of botox for the pads of my fretting hand so I can do A with 2 fingers....does my bum look look big in this guitar?

[Hudman]

I ordered some Fred Kelly Slick Picks in Delrin. I went with the lights. Picks Galore ships free on orders over $10. I ordered 12 of them for $12.00 (6 packs of 2).

 

http://www.picksgalore.com/

 

Know what you mean, Ive lately started dressing my nails with the file perpendicular to the ends of my fingernails ie from nail to pad, looking at your hand from the side it would resemble a T. The nail only comes into play just before release, my tutor realized I was doing this before I did:eek: Try having your nails flush with the ends of your fingers, I havent had to worry about tearing, more precision and harmonics sound louder. Just me, I"m FAR from proficient but it helped. Im looking for something to polish the outside of my nails to stop a slight rasping sound. Also thinking of botox for the pads of my fretting hand so I can do A with 2 fingers....does my bum look look big in this guitar?

 

I'm not sure what you should use on your nails.

 

I'm sure someone has some suggestions.

 

Your guitar doesn't make your bum look big, your bum does that on it's on.

[Melodeous]

If you are looking to strengthen your nails you can buy that Hard-As-Nails stuff and put um-teen coats on. I tried that and while it did bulk-up the thickness it was labor intensive - coating, waiting to dry, another coat, etc - and in the end as a mechanic one day shot the whole process in the ass.

 

Another way is with one coat of medium viscosity CA (cyanoacrylic, aka superglue) and cured instantly with a shot of "Kicker" accelerator also marketed as CA Insta-Set. The CA is fairly thick and can be controlled as a coating using the nozzle on the bottle. When you cure it with the accelerator DO NOT have your face anywhere near the nail. The curing is instant and out-gasses as a visible vapor that will momentarily sting your eyes and nose membrane. The built up nail can be filed and shaped immediately. Plus, additional CA can be applied, cured and worked to give a very tough yet presentable appearance. It can be dissolved and removed with acetone, which is another chemical I use daily requiring protective gloves. Good hobby shops carry this stuff.

 

Then there's the fake nails. I use the larger toenail kit because I have HUGE nail beds. Plus, typical fake fingernails are curved like hawks talons. Fake toenails aren't. Roughen up the back sides of the fake nails and the fingernail to give the glue some tooth to grab into. Shape the fake nails to match the natural nail cuticle radius with fingernail clippers. Paint the natural nail with medium viscosity CA and apply the Kicker to the fake nail. Do not use too much CA or it will squeeze out presenting a build up under the extended nail that must be filed away. Quickly and accurately place the fake nail and hold for a couple seconds (I place the rounded cuticle edge of the fake nail lined up and centered on the cuticle and then lower the nail down in position) and the bond will be cured instantly. There is no waiting. Shape as desired and you're ready to play.

 

Hud, I think you'll find the Delrin picks a relief compared to the polycarbs you've been using. Keep in mind they are definitely softer and will wear away faster. That's an acceptable trade-off in my book considering how much more thumb-friendly they are. And, they give a much more balanced tone. You won't have to worry about pulling back when playing to lower the bass voicings. Conversely, they let you dig without fretting out lower action setups.

[DarkHorizon]

For complete beginners first learn to open open chords cleanly. Once you can do that then try changing between chords. At first this will be very hard to do but just keep your strumming hand going even if you make mistakes and eventually you can cleanly change chords while strumming. This can take months to get right at a reasonable strumming speed so don't worry. The next thing to learn is strumming patterns. This is where you will start to add real feel to your playing. Once you get the strumming patterns sorted you can then start to learn a whole lot of useful skills and techniques.

Good Luck

[Hudman]

For complete beginners first learn to open open chords cleanly. Once you can do that then try changing between chords. At first this will be very hard to do but just keep your strumming hand going even if you make mistakes and eventually you can cleanly change chords while strumming. This can take months to get right at a reasonable strumming speed so don't worry. The next thing to learn is strumming patterns. This is where you will start to add real feel to your playing. Once you get the strumming patterns sorted you can then start to learn a whole lot of useful skills and techniques. Good Luck

 

Excellent advice.

[kwakatak]

I tried all the finger pick products out there. While I could use them for slow stuff they flew off my fingers when going up-tempo and I wasn't going to glue them on. Plus, they collided against each other when playing and that bugged the crap out of me. So, now I just use my nails - fake when needed - and a thumbpick. Thumbpicks have been discussed here many times but there always seems to be a new crowd when the subject comes up. If anyone is interested in trying them I might suggest getting Fred Kelly's yellow Delrin Slick Picks. It's a paddle blade pick. Another is his Speed Pick which is basically shaped like a 3-tine fork with the middle tine longer and slightly wider. I use both. The yellow are the light gauge. Orange is a medium. Delrin is a softer, more conforming plastic than polycarbonate. Poly's really bite into the thumb and require boiling and shaping - messing with - to create a moderately comfortable pinch-band around the thumb. Delrin needs no such treatment. Google Fred Kelly Thumbpicks and look for the Speed and Slick picks. He also makes fingerpicks that slip onto the fingertips. I tried them but it would seem ol' Fred thinks all fingertips are tapered and dainty. Mine look like and are about the same size as a genuine Cuban Cohiba. Suffice it to say I nixed them.

Joe, thanks for hooking me up with a couple two years ago. To tell you the truth, I positively HATED the orange one. The yellow one OTOH I liked once I took an emery board to it and shaped it to about half of its original size and gave it a nice rounded edge. I wasn't unlike shaping the bone saddles on my guitars - but without the whole dentist's office smell!

Now if only I could find where I left it.