C.F. Martin victim of trademark nightmare

[gitnoob]

China is evil. China is unfair. But China isn't stupid.

 

You asked earlier about where they get their wood for guitars. I tried to look that up.

 

It turns out that while they have large forests, they are still a net importer. Most of their wood comes from Russia.

 

They were aware of their high demand and the potential effects on their forests, so what did they do? They banned logging. They started planting trees for sustainable plantation wood sources.

 

They originally had tariffs on imported logs, and they discovered that high tariffs caused an increases in "black market" logs. Basically, their supplies from other countries were illegal.

 

So they lifted the tariffs, and the black market loggers lost their advantage/incentive. So they now import legal logs.

 

I thought this was an interesting story because it shows how quickly they adapt.

 

And that's the reason I buy goods from China. Not only are they less expensive, but they have quick development cycles. The electronics I get are both less expensive and more advanced than those I can get from US makers.

 

I'm not sure I see Wal-Mart as evil. They just grease the skids for an inevitable process. This is evolution in action. We're not only going to see the strongest survive, but we're seeing some unexpected side-effects too. Like Wal-Mart opening stores in China.

[Etienne Rambert]

Man, am I the only one here who actually enjoys arguing?

 

No. I'm an accomplished troll. I'm one of the elite trolls at HC. I work very hard.

If you need a reference, ask Mr. Fartboski. He'll vouch for me.

 

I'll clarify a bit just to say I'm not talking about the Chinese government. I think capitalism will topple that structure. Even native-born Chinese distrust their government at all levels and expect corruption.

 

You are correct about that.

 

But take a look at any of the top graduate school programs in the US, and you will see a culture that thrives on competition and excellence. China is not just about cheap labor.

 

Here is where you get it wrong, along with most Americans I know. There are 1.4 billion people or so in the PRC. Of those, at a minimum, 500-600 million of them are poor farmers or shopkeepers. Only the creme de la creme make it to US campuses, the best of the best. Not only that, there is a very hard & low ceiling, which most people spend their entire lives under. Unless one is born into a connected or rich family & in the right province, there is very little hope of getting rich or even making it to the middle class.

 

Example: Henan Province is about the size of Illinois. It has a population of ninety million people.

Of those, 60-70 million are farmers. Can you imagine Illinois with sixty million farmers?

 

 

The demographic issues China faces are more dangerous than those the US faces. Its population is aging.

Not only that, because of the One-Child policy, there is now a 4-2-1 problem. 4 grandparents for every

single grandchild. Those grandchildren are growing up to enter the work force. And they face having

to support the pensions of six people, their grandparents, their parents & of course, themselves.

 

Another demographic problem is the shortage of available women for single men. Thus, the PRC's biggest

export is people. Young men have to find brides in foreign countries.

 

When you visit the big cities, they're clean, modern, the people are very nice. It's not nearly as polluted as

Houston or Lake Charles.

 

But the government is warped. You walk around & eventually you start wondering where the curtain hiding

the wizard is. I don't enjoy going there. I try to avoid it anymore.

 

But the people are very nice. And the overwhelming majority of them are not Ivy League Grad School material.

[gitnoob]

 

And the overwhelming majority of them are not Ivy League Grad School material.

 

 

Understood. But isn't that another reason to love China? That's how the US was built: above-average immigrants fleeing tyranny. Luckily, they're still coming here.

 

Interestingly, that may have changed when China took back Hong Kong. There was a wave of emigration from Hong Kong due to fear. But their fears were overdone, and they returned to Hong Kong.

 

One of the brightest guys I knew in college is now a prof in Hong Kong. Some of the hardest-core entrepreneurs I knew went back to Hong Kong the make money from the PRC's growth.

 

That's the real danger to the US. That the smart guys born in China stop coming here.

[Etienne Rambert]

Our Indians are smarter than their Indians. That's because they don't have any.

It's all Chinese as far as the eye can see.But people who rant & rave against immigration better wake up.

 

Immigration is what will keep the US on top. Cut off immigration & the US sinks like a stone.

[gitnoob]

Canada is the new US. Check out their immigration policies. Basically, they'll take anybody as long as they have money, brains, or skills.

[BryanMichael]

Attention all developing nations, we as the US of A learned a lot of lessons over the past 150 years during the industrial revolution. Sure, we cheated, stole, and exploited natural resources, hell we even tested atomic weapons where they (ahem) wouldn't "hurt anyone"....but we learned a lot...and now we have the moral authority to tell you "Do what I say...and not what I do!" You see, we were young, and brash, and full of pioneer spirit! That's why we did what we did....not like you. You are doing it because you are evil commie bastards that don't believe in Jesus. There is a HUGE difference. So, just TRUST us when we say that this is WRONG...and BAD. Making a profit is BAD when it comes at the expense of factory workers and their...uh...hmmmmm....Let me re-phrase... Profits are GOOD when they stimulate consumer.....uh...no...OK, look...the bottom line is that....{censored}. What was the bottom line? Oh yeah! Any guitar made in America has special MOJO. Our factory workers do better stuff with the wood and stuff, you know? So-um- don't de-value it by pretending that the same wood and machines in your country could, um, make something as good. We even have black people here that pay the BLUES, you know- it's AUTHENTIC! and you can't be AUTHENTIC, so just stop.

Thanks,
Love - USA Guitar Buyer

[fastblueheeler]

What's your point Bryan?

[Etienne Rambert]

Canada is the new US. Check out their immigration policies. Basically, they'll take anybody as long as they have money, brains, or skills.

 

I agree.

[Chordchunker]

Why do you hate America Bryan?

[kwakatak]

Canada actually wouldn't be half bad if it weren't so damned cold though. It's nice to visit in the summer though. FWIW they really do make great guitars up there though and there's a LOT of talent that has hailed from the Great White North.

[Grant Harding]

Attention all developing nations, we as the US of A learned a lot of lessons over the past 150 years during the industrial revolution. Sure, we cheated, stole, and exploited natural resources, hell we even tested atomic weapons where they (ahem) wouldn't "hurt anyone"....but we learned a lot...and now we have the moral authority to tell you "Do what I say...and not what I do!" You see, we were young, and brash, and full of pioneer spirit! That's why we did what we did....not like you. You are doing it because you are evil commie bastards that don't believe in Jesus. There is a HUGE difference. So, just TRUST us when we say that this is WRONG...and BAD. Making a profit is BAD when it comes at the expense of factory workers and their...uh...hmmmmm....Let me re-phrase... Profits are GOOD when they stimulate consumer.....uh...no...OK, look...the bottom line is that....{censored}. What was the bottom line? Oh yeah! Any guitar made in America has special MOJO. Our factory workers do better stuff with the wood and stuff, you know? So-um- don't de-value it by pretending that the same wood and machines in your country could, um, make something as good. We even have black people here that pay the BLUES, you know- it's AUTHENTIC! and you can't be AUTHENTIC, so just stop. Thanks, Love - USA Guitar Buyer

 

hahaha - top notch!!

[poppytater]

How to win friends and influence people

[OldGuitarPlayer]

[KATMAN]

I remember seeing a Sigma guitar several years ago that had the Martin logo on the headstock. I almost crapped myself thinking I could a real Martin guitar for $200.

[GuitarVlog]

Well Put. Marx said a capitalist will sell you the rope that you plan to hang him with.

 

 

Soon they'll be finishing their first aircraft carrier with the money we gave them through Wal-Mart.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BM0Y920101223

 

And deploying their own "carrier-killer" missile.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/China-Seen-Moving-Closer-to-Deployment-of--Carrier-Killer-Missile-112629574.html

[guildfire]

Canada actually wouldn't be half bad if it weren't so damned cold though. It's nice to visit in the summer though. FWIW they really do make great guitars up there though and there's a LOT of talent that has hailed from the Great White North.

 

 

I don't mind Canadiens, but too much "eh" and hockey for my taste. Speaking of taste I never heard anyone say "let's go get some Canadian food". They usually go Chinese or Mexican instead.

[Grant Harding]

I don't mind Canadiens, but too much "eh" and hockey for my taste. Speaking of taste I never heard anyone say "let's go get some Canadian food". They usually go Chinese or Mexican instead.

Unlike the USA legacy of KFC, McD, Pizza Hut, Coke, Taco Bell...

[Samilyn]

Unlike the USA legacy of KFC, McD, Pizza Hut, Coke, Taco Bell...

 

We're gonna junk-food 'em to death - make 'em too obese to work and clog their collective arteries - thus eliminating any competition.

[Hudman]

Why did this thread turning into USA bashing (again)?

 

Any company from any country outside of China would have a legitimate concern if their products were copied like the Martins in this article.

 

It has nothing to do with the country of origin. It is a simple matter of theft (legalized by the Chinese government or not). Toyota would be pissed if the Chinese start building copies of their vehicles.

 

I understand that many of the people here don't like the USA and they cling to their negative American stereotypes: That's fine (we are getting overcrowded anyways), but this issue is not an American issue. It's an ethics issue.

[gitnoob]

Why did this thread turning into USA bashing (again)?

 

Because trademark infringement is BORING.

[Samilyn]

Loss of jobs, outsourcing, crappy import merchandise, faltering economy.....all is food for deep thought no matter where you live.

A few short years ago, I chose to drastically change my lifestyle. I was making very good money, but the stress and hours just wasn't worth it. Living on way less money gave me some interesting choices, among which were (and still are):

(1) Buy fewer goods;
(2) Buy cheaper goods;
(3) Distinguish need vs. want.

I chose options 1 and 3.

I prefer to support American businesses and industry, but on my extremely low income, that isn't always possible because of the higher cost of goods. However, I don't want to waste money on an inferior product that will fall apart in a very short time. Value is now a huge priority with me. So, if I determine that a certain item is necessary, I save up and do my best to buy a high-quality US-made product, even though it irks me that many of the components of that item are foreign made. I only have this frail hope that my purchase helps keep an American worker on an assembly line instead of an unemployment line, in spite of imported components.

Truthfully, I don't shop at Walmart, K-Mart or Target anymore. I simply don't do big-box stores or malls for a number of reasons. I also don't care for the "Dollar" Stores that are denizens of every strip mall in town, shelves crammed with uber-cheap import merchandise.

When I adopted my simple, frugal lifestyle, my shopping strategy changed. I'm now a huge fan of secondhand and thrift stores (and garage sales when I have the time). I'd much rather have an old, high-quality item than a new, cheap one that will fall apart in a short time.

I haven't purchased new clothing in several years. I dress well, but simply, in secondhand clothes. (except underwear, of course) Unfortunately, it's difficult to find any clothing that isn't foreign-made, but when buying secondhand goods, my money is supporting the workers at the thrift store (and their respective charities), not some sweatshop overseas.

I recycle everything I possibly can - frayed bath towels find new life as dish towels, thanks to a pair of scissors and a bit of sewing - that sort of thing. I don't use disposable items such as ziplock bags, paper napkins, etc. because there are suitable re-usable alternatives (tupperware, cloth napkins, etc.).

Yes, I'll admit how much I love my Chinese-made GAD-25, but at the time I bought it, I didn't even note the fact that it was made in China. That was three years ago and these days, I'm a lot more conscious of where things are made.

I said in a different thread that a git's country of origin doesn't really matter to me, but in retrospect, I'm going to edit my post there because it really does matter to me.

Truthfully, I'm just not all that interested in supporting foreign economies when ours is such a mess, with too many people out of work and too many with no food or shelter.

Yeah, my POV about the whole foreign trade thing is probably over-simplified, but in lieu of spending endless hours coming to a greater understanding of such a complex issue, I spend my free time trying to make things better in my own backyard. I'd rather spend a few hours helping out at a shelter than standing in a mile-long checkout line at WallyWorld.

[Tartanlad]

Id always only buy from the UK..WHY Because i trust the items from my own Country
But China no-way

I also would never buy any Chinese food whatsoever here..never have
and never ever shall..i think majority of people trust in their own Country

Plus id rather put into as Sammye sais helping my own Country out than some
other out..Having sais such there's some countries id buy from if was not got in my own
But China i just have always never trusted ..along with France..

[Samilyn]

 

Id always only buy from the UK..WHY Because i trust the items from my own Country But China no-way I also would never buy any Chinese food whatsoever here..never have and never ever shall

 

 

Well prepared Chinese food is quite delicious, Stevie. You don't know what you're missing.

 

 

..i think majority of people trust in their own Country Plus id rather put into as Sammye sais helping my own Country out than some other out..Having sais such there's some countries id buy from if was not got in my own But China i just have always never trusted ..along with France..

 

 

Why do you not trust them, aside from China's obvious piss-poor human rights track record and their penchant for counterfeiting?

[recordingtrack1]

......But China i just have always never trusted ..along with France..

 

 

Now yer opening up a whole 'nother can o' worms:cop:

[guildfire]

French fries are good.