Members meandi Posted June 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2008 need 3 bolts from the hardware store tomorrow & the carving cradle is ready. been quite a little project in itself. cradle itself is attached to the platform on top of the pipe with screws rather than being glued in place so it may be removed to function also as a clamping cawl when gluing top/back plates to sides of guitar. flattened the side of a dowel rod & glued to the clamp plate made from hard maple, which will also have a 5/16 dia. bolt running through it and down through the end block of the cradle. this clamp, when the bolt is tightened, will hold the top/back plate securely in place on the cradle for planeing, scraping to shape/proper thickness. there is a hole drilled across the slit cut in the upper bearing block for a 5/16" dia. bolt that will compress the block there-by locking the cradle in place for working specific areas on the plates. i think it is now time to commence with the actual building of the guitar! there are a few more fixtures to be fabricated (routing fixtures for neck & body dovetail etc.), but i will address them when the need arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brahmz118 Posted June 30, 2008 Members Share Posted June 30, 2008 Originally Posted by meandi interestingly, he uses an ebony nut for this guitar rather than bone...must be using flatwounds on it. My archtop also has an ebony nut. The guitar is completely acoustic, so it's always had medium roundwounds. I have string binding issues, so I'm not sure if I should have the slots adjusted or if I should replace the whole thing. Only the treble strings bind, so I don't think flatwounds will solve the problem. I'm not sure what advantages an ebony nut has, other than the fact that it looks cool and matches the ebony fretboard, finger rest, bridge and tailpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted June 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2008 Originally Posted by brahmz118 My archtop also has an ebony nut. The guitar is completely acoustic, so it's always had medium roundwounds. I have string binding issues, so I'm not sure if I should have the slots adjusted or if I should replace the whole thing. Only the treble strings bind, so I don't think flatwounds will solve the problem. I'm not sure what advantages an ebony nut has, other than the fact that it looks cool and matches the ebony fretboard, finger rest, bridge and tailpiece. i've thought about ebony as a nut material a couple of times due to it's elegant beauty but have yet to try it. i've done some reading online about it & the consensus seems to be that ebony is very acceptable tonally, but due to the fact that it is softer than the composit materials as well as the other available natural materials (bone, mother of pearl etc.) that it wears more quickly & therefore needs more frequent replacement. on your string binding issue it could be the slots are to narrow for the diameter of the string itself. frets.com also says that if the string slot is v'd at the bottom, rather than matching the contour of the string, that binding can also occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted June 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2008 considerable time has been invested in finishing the body mold in order to make it as accurate a representation of the shape of the guitar as i can make it. shaped just to the marker line which was outside the posterboard template originally drawn directly to the engineering drawing...sides square to the top etc. blank for the back plate has been cut slightly large...it overlaps the reference lines on the top of the body mold, giving me a little excess material for triming precisely to the body sides after the back is glued to the sides. ordered a palm plane as well as a truss rod & carbon fiber inserts for the neck today. i'm gettin' excited here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 line on edge of back plate is 1/4" which is oversized of final dimension of 3/16". i've learned the hard way on other projects in the past you never try to achieve final dimension on the first cuts...gotta start large & sneak up on the final size!! guess this is why it's called "roughin' it in". visually it certainly fits the termonology. but will save much time with the palm plane later. had i not seen benedetos work on the dvds & what they look like at this stage, i'd be having serious considerations as to whether or not this procedure will lead to a satisfactory finished piece. almost made a serious mistake on this...get so use to visualizing the guitar from the top...i almost began on this piece as if it were a top plate, which would have placed the cutaway on the other side...a mirror image of what it is. i'd a been seriously bummed out if i'd had to start from scratch on another back plate after all the work invested in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MahaloVision Posted July 1, 2008 Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Archtops are a blast to make. Keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by MahaloVision Archtops are a blast to make. Keep it up! are you a builder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by brahmz118 My archtop also has an ebony nut. The guitar is completely acoustic, so it's always had medium roundwounds. I have string binding issues, so I'm not sure if I should have the slots adjusted or if I should replace the whole thing. Only the treble strings bind, so I don't think flatwounds will solve the problem. I'm not sure what advantages an ebony nut has, other than the fact that it looks cool and matches the ebony fretboard, finger rest, bridge and tailpiece. had another thought on your string binding problem brahmz. since ebony is softer than the more traditional nut materials, i wonder if the strings themselves are cutting into the nut due to down loads exerted at the break over point of the nut. you did say it was only treble strings...? have you noticed your 1st fret string heighth going away on the affected strings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikeSF Posted July 1, 2008 Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 i have one archtop with an ebony nut. aesthetically, it looks really great. i do not notice any binding but i do regularly lube all the nut slots with graphite grease. i have owned the instrument for many years and never experienced the strings (Thomastik 13 roundwounds) cutting into the slots either, but then again THIS archtop doesn't have a FLoyd on it...yet... kidding aside, the bridges are all made from ebony and that same builder made the string contact point very narrow (sharp) on the saddle and the strings were digging right thru like butter. i ended up flattening out his sharp "blade" design for a little more surface area (angling the slots slightly downward toward the tailpiece) and it doesn't do that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikeSF Posted July 1, 2008 Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by meandi considerable time has been invested in finishing the body mold in order to make it as accurate a representation of the shape of the guitar as i can make it. wow, nice work on the body mold - looks great! for inspiration, here is a pic of Bob working on my guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MahaloVision Posted July 1, 2008 Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by meandi are you a builder? I won't post what I'm designing now.... yet. Sorry to hijack your thread... and good luck with your build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by mikeSF wow, nice work on the body mold - looks great! for inspiration, here is a pic of Bob working on my guitar! thanks for the compliment!!! i take pride in my work...attention to detail is paramount. i developed the skill of focus in a 30 yr career in the auto field, the last 15 of which were doing frame off resoto., show cars & street rods. inspiration indeed...is bob as truely a nice a guy as i've heard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by MahaloVision I won't post what I'm designing now.... yet. Sorry to hijack your thread... and good luck with your build. thanks, beautiful work! hijack away...seeing your work makes me want to push just a little harder... get something finished to show. however, i also practice the zen philosophy of enjoying the journey as well as the destination...so for now i'm content to be doin what i'm doin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 i moded the clamps on the carving cradle by adding another thickness of maple & notching into the clamp so the arching template can be used without unclamping the workpiece. the plane isn't here yet so i've been rounding off the edges with a good sharp 1" chisel & adding some contour to the back. this is actually pretty straight forward...remove material at the contact point between the template and the plate. ultimately there will be contact throughout when the arch is complete. the a & b points on the centerline template are the takeoff points for the templates which check the "corners" and the waist area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikeSF Posted July 1, 2008 Members Share Posted July 1, 2008 Originally Posted by meandi ...is bob as truely a nice a guy as i've heard? without any doubt, he and Cindy are both very special people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 2, 2008 the palm plane is a beautiful tool...almost a work of art in it's own right. the area in the waist is too tight for the plane to reach so i'm using the french curve scraper for shaping there. pictured is my collection of scrapers...the ceramic rod in the dark wood block is used to turn a burr on the scrapers to keep them sharp & agressive. i'm using the 1" chisel to work the edge down to the 1/4" line previously drawn. 3/4" radius gouge is used to transition the flat into the radius of the arch. 30+ years straigntening & fabricating auto body panels has given me a natural affinity for working with multiple/vanishing radius so blending the areas between where the arching templates lay is proving to come naturally. i am having to learn how to work with rather than against the end grain areas in the body shape when using the plane. i'm having a blast at this! carbon fiber neck rods & double action truss rod also came with the shipment containing the plane this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 3, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 3, 2008 i've got over 20 hrs. invested in the backplate at this point. this time includes hand planing the two halves for glue-up, band saw time, drill press time for hogging out the excess material around the edges & time with the palm plane/scrapers. i'm sure the next one will go more quickly as i've learned a bunch on this one. in the marketing section of his book bob aluded to 3 months of 6 day weeks at 10 hrs. per day when talking about pricing an instrument. so, maby i'm not too far off with the 20 hrs. on the first one. the templates can't be fitted to final presicision with the plane, as it has a rounded edge on the blade & leaves a very wash-board contour on the plate. it moves a lot of material in a hurry & is an excellent rough-in tool. the smaller template is fitted more closely than the one behind as the scraper leaves a finish texture with it's use. still a bit of scraper work to do in the cut-away area. then time for the rasp & then on to several finer grits of sandpaper. the wife was in here last evening checking out my progress & rather than complimenting me on the genius of my work, all she had to say is "it's a good thing for you i don't have to clean up in here, buster." i mean, what's up with these girls anyway?! all i'm tryin to do is have a little fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brahmz118 Posted July 3, 2008 Members Share Posted July 3, 2008 Originally Posted by meandi had another thought on your string binding problem brahmz. since ebony is softer than the more traditional nut materials, i wonder if the strings themselves are cutting into the nut due to down loads exerted at the break over point of the nut. you did say it was only treble strings...? have you noticed your 1st fret string heighth going away on the affected strings? Sorry, just saw this now. Thanks for the tips. No change in string height near the nut yet. I haven't really had the guitar that long, but I do worry about the soft ebony wearing down over time. When the ebony nut was suggested to me by the builder, I didn't think about it too much. All my violin and cello playing friends have ebony nuts on their instruments. Anyway, I'll try some lubrication and if that doesn't work I'll have the slots adjusted. I do like the way it looks. Keep up the good work on your build! I'm enjoying seeing all the steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HankGator Posted July 3, 2008 Members Share Posted July 3, 2008 This thread makes me feel like I have a manhood deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ugaman72 Posted July 4, 2008 Members Share Posted July 4, 2008 Meandi, just wondering if you've invested any time trying to learn the fine art of tap tuning? I believe that this is what truly separates the best archtops and mandolins. I tried to "get it" at one time, but my ear just doesn't get it. I think you're much more in tuned (pun intended) with this art than I ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2008 Originally Posted by HankGator This thread makes me feel like I have a manhood deficit. no need to feel that way! not much different than learning to play...a little bit of understanding & a whole lotta practice. i've been a hard core shop rat for over 40 yrs. now & that goes a long way in something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2008 Originally Posted by Ugaman72 Meandi, just wondering if you've invested any time trying to learn the fine art of tap tuning? I believe that this is what truly separates the best archtops and mandolins. I tried to "get it" at one time, but my ear just doesn't get it. I think you're much more in tuned (pun intended) with this art than I ever was. i'm working on it. that's the great thing about having the dvd set as well as the book...tap tuning is such a nebulous thing to try to articulate with words...kinda like describing the color red to a man blind from birth. benedetto spends a fair amount of time on the subject on the dvd & it really clarifies the concept to actually hear it. this evening i took the back plate in to the piano & was tapping it it's a G# above middle C at this point but not really bell tone like in its projection. but i haven't hollowed out the back of the plate yet. the tone will drop as the plate is refined & will (if the work is properly done) become quite crystaline & bell like. he admits that this is one of the abilities that he can't teach...it just comes with practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ugaman72 Posted July 4, 2008 Members Share Posted July 4, 2008 Sounds like you have the concepts down well. I admire anyone who can do that. What I do know is that you're learning from a master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members meandi Posted July 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2008 Originally Posted by Ugaman72 Sounds like you have the concepts down well. I admire anyone who can do that. What I do know is that you're learning from a master could be i know just enough to be dangerous...with-hold my opinion till i see how this one turns out. he's been building for 40 yrs. now...gotta have learned a thing or two in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MahaloVision Posted July 4, 2008 Members Share Posted July 4, 2008 Tap and flex, and remember that everything changes once it's on the rims, then continues to change throughout the scraping of the recurve, sanding, and finishing. If you're up for losing your hearing, annoying your neighbors, and bouncing glitter, then you might want to dig up some of Al Carruth's articles in the GAL's "American Lutherie". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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