In Memorium To The Little Ones.....

[FretFiend.]

Funny you should say something like that since you started this {censored}storm, and all the lowlifes from the sewer forums followed you here.

Now, get all indignant, tell me about my tantrums, and my desire for attention, maybe tell me you don't have time to give me any more attention.

Oh yeah, and tell me how you are not a liberal, pretty conservative really.

And BTW, Christmas is a Christian holiday. Maybe you'd prefer happy winter holiday or something.

[Bobby1Note]

Arguing with the intellectually bankrupt, is simply a waste of positive energy, which would be much better spent in finding effective solutions. You can't spend time wasting words on those who don't see a need for change, They fully accept that slaughtering these beautiful innocent kids as the new "norm". Thank God that the numbers are vastly in favor of those who want to see a positive change. Don't argue with these guys; just run right over them.

Simple fact; 60% of households, do not have guns. Of the 40% that do, well over 80% of those want to see a change. Those with extreme points of view, who don't "see" a need for change, are irrelevant, non-contributing loudmouths, who are willing to "see" the sacrifice of these children, as a footnote in time;;; just another "statistic".

[FretFiend.]

 

intellectually bankrupt

 

Quite ironic really.

And this fool still wants to argue gun control. For God's sake, man. Get a life!

[kiowa1]

This is just pathetic.

[Neal]

 

Originally Posted by kiowa1

This is just pathetic.

 

I am in total agreement with Kiowa1. And the world didn't end (even though the whole Mayan thing...).

Here's another one I think those kids would've loved-

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally Posted by Neal

I am in total agreement with Kiowa1. And the world didn't end (even though the whole Mayan thing...).

Here's another one I think those kids would've loved-

 

 

Excellent!

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally Posted by kiowa1

Whatever the solution to this problem is, we won't find it this way. We have to put away our liberal and conservative badges and address these problems as PEOPLE. The asshole who pulled the trigger in that school didn't give a {censored} about democrat or republican views. What's the root PROBLEM that's causing all this? I have to admit I don't know. I have my suspicions but I can't prove them, so I'm willing to listen. And I'm willing to help.

 

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Arguing with the intellectually bankrupt, is simply a waste of positive energy, which would be much better spent in finding effective solutions. You can't spend time wasting words on those who don't see a need for change, They fully accept that slaughtering these beautiful innocent kids as the new "norm". Thank God that the numbers are vastly in favor of those who want to see a positive change. Don't argue with these guys; just run right over them.

Simple fact; 60% of households, do not have guns. Of the 40% that do, well over 80% of those want to see a change. Those with extreme points of view, who don't "see" a need for change, are irrelevant, non-contributing loudmouths, who are willing to "see" the sacrifice of these children, as a footnote in time;;; just another "statistic".

 

It is, indeed, time to start looking at how we gun owners can be part of the solution. Screaming that ALL guns should be allowed is simply idiotic, as idiotic as saying that ALL guns should be banned.

There's room for compromise, and anything that can help avoid the slaughter of our nation's children MUST be discussed, even if it makes the NRA (and their supporters) whine.

Just calling a Memorium, while refusing to look at the Big Picture, isn't the answer.

[Nabisco]

As usual, the Liberals continue to push their views, claiming that they are only the obvious, reasonable ideas and not politically-driven at all. And folks from Great Britain and Canada continue to opine on the rights protected by the United States Constitution, as if their opinions mattered one tiny bit (they don't.) I am still waiting for one of these distinguished gentlemen to state, without reservation, that if his wife or child were about to be raped and/or murdered and he had access to a gun, he would not use it. Oh Gee!. I forgot, of course he would use it; it is the rest of us who can't be trusted. Silly me.

There have been many cases where maniacs with guns have been stopped from committing mass murder by armed citizens. Disarm the law-abiding citizens and the whole country will turn into Detroit. By the way, Washington DC, Detroit and Chicago have very strict gun-control laws. May I suggest you take your family for a stroll there some night?

[Neal]

 

Originally Posted by Nabisco

........

 

The troll needs fed. Any takers in a memorial to murdered children?

Fretfiend will probably say "Pot, meet Kettle"

Here's another vid those kids would've liked- There's a talking cat!

 

[FretFiend.]

 

Originally Posted by Neal

The troll needs fed...

 

Pot, meet kettle.

[Hoddy]

Here's TAH's solution...

 

Originally Posted by Terry Allan Hall

Along with that, there needs to be a law making possession of any/all high capacity assault weapons a felony, w/ a life w/o parole sentence as a consequence...no private citizen needs such weaponry just to get their Smedley's hard.

This in no way interferes w/ the 2nd Amendment in the slightest.

 

[kiowa1]

You know, I hope that the good people of Newtowne do not read this thread. Guys, we're better than this.

This thread has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. Nothing to do with whether so-and-so is a female or male, or whether somebody belongs on Prozac.

This is about the heart. Opa John, through his tears, started this thread so that we could voice our feelings about this terrible incident that should not have happened. This is about a monster who could only ventilate his rage by shooting 27 people at close range, mostly little children. The gun was convenient. His mother had them laying all over the house. If he wouldn't have found a gun, he would have used a baseball bat or a knife. This guy's sole purpose was to ventilate.

This is not about guns. It's about the breakdown of the family unit (did you ever notice that these assholes usually shoot their parents before they go on their rampage), it's a breakdown of the mental health system, of the courts, of law enforcement, and of society in general.

Some people think it's the music, some think it's the video games, some think it's satan turned loose in the world. I don't know. But somewhere there's a big red button that gets pushed once in a while, and something like this happens. It will happen again, and again, and again, until we find the button and disarm it.

Thank you, Neal, for coming in with a true attempt at putting sanity back into this thread. I appreciate that.

Guys, we're better than this. Let's all remember these little kids and how their lives were cut short by a whakko. There are 27 families in Newtowne who's Christmas won't be so merry.

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by Nabisco

As usual, the Liberals continue to push their views, claiming that they are only the obvious, reasonable ideas and not politically-driven at all. And folks from Great Britain and Canada continue to opine on the rights protected by the United States Constitution, as if their opinions mattered one tiny bit (they don't.) I am still waiting for one of these distinguished gentlemen to state, without reservation, that if his wife or child were about to be raped and/or murdered and he had access to a gun, he would not use it. Oh Gee!. I forgot, of course he would use it; it is the rest of us who can't be trusted. Silly me.

There have been many cases where maniacs with guns have been stopped from committing mass murder by armed citizens. Disarm the law-abiding citizens and the whole country will turn into Detroit. By the way, Washington DC, Detroit and Chicago have very strict gun-control laws. May I suggest you take your family for a stroll there some night?

 

This is a good post. It illustrates a point which some seem to ignore. The reason you wouldn't go for a walk in Detroit, Chicago, and Washington, is because there are too many crazies with guns. You've gotta ask yourself, what do we do about that issue??????? How do we take back the streets and gain a level of sanity??????

Now, the sad reality of having guns in the house is this; you are 22 times more likely, to have a family-member shot by that gun, than you are to shoot an intruder. That's a statistic,,,, not an opinion.

[kwakatak]

Thanks for that, kiowa1. That needed to be said. Perhaps somebody should start a discussion about gun control over in the Political Forum?

[garthman]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

This is a good post. It illustrates a point which some seem to ignore. The reason you wouldn't go for a walk in Detroit, Chicago, and Washington, is because there are too many crazies with guns. You've gotta ask yourself, what do we do about that issue??????? How do we take back the streets and gain a level of sanity??????

Now, the sad reality of having guns in the house is this; you are 22 times more likely, to have a family-member shot by that gun, than you are to shoot an intruder. That's a statistic,,,, not an opinion.

 

Yes. IIRC, I remember calculating (the last time we discussed gun ownership) - based on actual recorded deaths - that someone in the USA is 200 times more likely to be shot dead than someone in the UK. Scary!

[acousticdepot]

Merry Christmas everybody!

[Neal]

 

Originally Posted by garthman

Yes. IIRC, I remember calculating (the last time we discussed gun ownership) - based on actual recorded deaths - that someone in the USA is 200 times more likely to be shot dead than someone in the UK. Scary!

 

More like 31 times... still pretty high though.

1 in 31,000 chance of being killed in the US by a firearm.

1 in ONE MILLION chance of being killed in the UK/Wales by one.

Sources: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...y_firearms.xls and http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNODC&f=tableCode%3A1

Also a nice little graph here with more countries-

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-isla...ut-date-numbe/

If someone can format that...

[Nabisco]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

This is a good post. It illustrates a point which some seem to ignore. The reason you wouldn't go for a walk in Detroit, Chicago, and Washington, is because there are too many crazies with guns. You've gotta ask yourself, what do we do about that issue??????? How do we take back the streets and gain a level of sanity??????

Now, the sad reality of having guns in the house is this; you are 22 times more likely, to have a family-member shot by that gun, than you are to shoot an intruder. That's a statistic,,,, not an opinion.

 

Out of respect for Kiowa1, I abstained from posting a response to the Canadian gentleman. Then the British gentleman posted again and finally the gentleman claiming he is from Earth. Thus it is with Liberals always. So, I will respond.

The fact that even someone as dimwitted as Bobby1Note wouldn't take a walk through Detroit is not because there is not enough gun-control, it is because there are, have always been and will always be bad people who will prey upon the weak and the innocent. The situation in Detroit exists in spite of the gun-control laws. By definition, criminals don't obey the law.

I most sincerely invite the Libs to live out their convictions and deny themselves any means of self-defense. I am sure that criminals everywhere will be inspired by their noble gesture and will willingly turn in their own weapons. Gee, if we could just eliminate all guns, then there wouldn't be any killings, ever. After all, Genghis Khan, Attilla the Hun, the Vikings, Prince Vlad, the Impaler, Shaka Zulu and countless others were all known for their gentleness and unwillingness to kill others. Genghis favored gently tickling his enemies with a feather and then they all retired to a bar and hoisted a few beers. The Aztecs, as I recall, never killed anyone; how could they? They had no guns. All those still-beating hearts they pulled out came from willing donors. So let's all get on board; Ban guns and everyone will be safe.

[Neal]

 

Originally Posted by Nabisco

......

 

This is the problem, Mr. Troll, you post with the intent of slander, "Thus it is with liberals", etc.. and I'm responding and feeding you. The problem isn't with liberals or conservatives or Tea-Party, it's with finding a common ground. We all have our opinions, but we all need to respect those opinions if anything is going to be accomplished. Ban all weapons? No, but there needs to be some massaging of our laws.

As passed by the Congress:

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:

 

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

If you read the 2nd amendment, it reads to me like that's for our "militia", and we have the National Guard, separately answerable to every state. "well regulated militia" may mean something different to me than it does to you. An individual isn't a well regulated militia, the National Guard, though, would fit that description. But I could be off-base in that. It's time now, in light of this recent tragedy, to define it.

So, say I'm off base, does it really mean you have a right to have a tank killer gun in your basement? An assault rifle? Armor piercing rounds? 100 bullet firing capabilities? Maybe it does. We need to have a dialogue without all of the snarkiness some are bringing to the table.

We are the same people, the same country, we all love our children and our country equally. We need to talk and take the chips off our shoulders. And I'm sorry for calling you "troll", but it seems you're out for the argument instead of the solution. Same for the next post? We'll see, and a good Christmas to you, or Happy Holidays.

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by Nabisco

Out of respect for Kiowa1, I abstained from posting a response to the Canadian gentleman. Then the British gentleman posted again and finally the gentleman claiming he is from Earth. Thus it is with Liberals always. So, I will respond.

The fact that even someone as dimwitted as Bobby1Note wouldn't take a walk through Detroit is not because there is not enough gun-control, it is because there are, have always been and will always be bad people who will prey upon the weak and the innocent. The situation in Detroit exists in spite of the gun-control laws. By definition, criminals don't obey the law.

I most sincerely invite the Libs to live out their convictions and deny themselves any means of self-defense. I am sure that criminals everywhere will be inspired by their noble gesture and will willingly turn in their own weapons. Gee, if we could just eliminate all guns, then there wouldn't be any killings, ever. After all, Genghis Khan, Attilla the Hun, the Vikings, Prince Vlad, the Impaler, Shaka Zulu and countless others were all known for their gentleness and unwillingness to kill others. Genghis favored gently tickling his enemies with a feather and then they all retired to a bar and hoisted a few beers. The Aztecs, as I recall, never killed anyone; how could they? They had no guns. All those still-beating hearts they pulled out came from willing donors. So let's all get on board; Ban guns and everyone will be safe.

 

Then, by your reasoning, and the fact that there are more guns in the U.S. than the rest of the developed world, the U.S.A. should be the safest country on planet Earth, correct?

[Bobby1Note]

 

Originally Posted by Neal

More like 31 times... still pretty high though.

1 in 31,000 chance of being killed in the US by a firearm.

1 in ONE MILLION chance of being killed in the UK/Wales by one.

Sources: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-...y_firearms.xls and http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNODC&f=tableCode%3A1

Also a nice little graph here with more countries-

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-isla...ut-date-numbe/

If someone can format that...

 

Neal, the statistic of 10,000+ deaths per year in the U.S., is the "murder rate". Total gun deaths including lesser crimes such as manslaughter, accidental death, and suicides in the U.S. stands between 32,000-35,000 per year.

Total gun deaths in the U.K. is 140. Murder rate last year was something like 34-35.

You're 308 times more likely to be murdered in the U.S. compared to the U.K. and 208 times more likely to die from a gun mishap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

Other interesting "stats";

Canada averages about 200 murders per year.

Of the 23 richest nations on Earth combined, the U.S. accounts for 80% of gun deaths.

[kujozilla]

 

Originally Posted by Bobby1Note

Neal, the statistic of 10,000+ deaths per year in the U.S., is the "murder rate". Total gun deaths including lesser crimes such as manslaughter, accidental death, and suicides in the U.S. stands between 32,000-35,000 per year.

Total gun deaths in the U.K. is 140. Murder rate last year was something like 34-35.

You're 308 times more likely to be murdered in the U.S. compared to the U.K. and 208 times more likely to die from a gun mishap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

Other interesting "stats";

Canada averages about 200 murders per year.

Of the 23 richest nations on Earth combined, the U.S. accounts for 80% of gun deaths.

 

I'm not throwing any opinions out, but if you look at a break down by state/territory the worst place is a place where we have laws banning firearms.

Here in the US all these weapons are already in homes. It makes it so that even if a law is instated people will still very easily be able to get these guns. The biggest problem is law abiding citizens will actually follow the rules. No two countries are the same. We banned alcohol a while if you don't recall, and we all know how that turned out. The problem of the US is the freedom mentality those that want to often will find a way.

United States Sources 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 Last

District of Columbia [15] 43.9 40.3 46.4 44.7 35.7 33.5 29.1 30.8 31.5 24.0 24.0

Puerto Rico [16] 18.2 19.4 20.2 20.1 20.5 19.71 18.81 18.52 20.61 22.61 22.61

Louisiana [15] 12.5 11.2 13.2 13.0 12.7 10.0 13.1 14.7 12.2 11.8 11.8

New Mexico [15] 7.4 5.4 8.2 6.2 8.9 7.5 7.1 9.4 7.5 8.7 8.7

Maryland [15] 8.1 8.3 9.4 9.5 9.4 9.9 9.7 9.9 8.7 7.7 7.7

Tennessee [15] 7.2 7.4 7.3 6.8 6.1 7.2 7.0 6.6 6.6 7.3 7.3

Alabama [15] 7.4 8.5 6.8 6.6 5.6 8.2 8.0 8.5 7.6 6.9 6.9

Mississippi [15] 9.0 9.9 9.2 9.3 7.8 7.4 8.0 7.0 8.0 6.4 6.4

Missouri [15] 6.2 6.6 5.8 5.1 6.1 6.9 6.3 6.2 7.7 6.4 6.4

Michigan [15] 6.7 6.7 6.8 6.1 6.4 6.2 7.2 6.6 5.5 6.3 6.3

South Carolina [15] 7.3 8.1 7.3 7.3 6.8 7.4 8.4 8.3 6.8 6.3 6.3

Arkansas [15] 6.3 5.5 5.2 6.6 6.4 6.8 7.5 7.1 5.7 6.2 6.2

Oklahoma [15] 5.3 5.3 4.7 5.9 5.3 5.3 5.8 6.2 5.8 6.2 6.2

Illinois [15] 7.2 7.8 7.6 7.1 6.1 6.0 6.1 5.9 6.2 6.0 6.0

Nevada [15] 6.5 8.6 8.4 8.8 7.4 8.5 9.1 7.5 6.3 5.9 5.9

Georgia (U.S. state) [15] 8.0 7.1 7.1 7.6 6.9 6.2 6.6 7.7 6.7 5.8 5.8

Florida [15] 5.6 5.3 5.5 5.4 5.4 5.0 6.2 6.6 6.3 5.5 5.5

Arizona [15] 7.0 7.5 7.1 7.9 7.2 7.5 8.5 8.7 7.0 5.4 5.4

Texas [15] 5.9 6.2 6.0 6.4 6.1 6.1 5.9 5.9 5.6 5.4 5.4

California [15] 6.1 6.4 6.8 6.8 6.7 6.9 6.8 6.2 5.9 5.3 5.3

North Carolina [15] 7.0 6.2 6.6 6.0 6.2 6.7 6.1 6.5 6.5 5.3 5.3

Pennsylvania [15] 4.9 5.3 5.1 5.2 5.2 6.1 6.0 5.9 5.6 5.2 5.2

Indiana [15] 5.8 6.7 5.9 5.5 5.1 5.7 5.7 5.6 5.0 4.8 4.8

Delaware [15] 3.2 2.9 3.2 2.6 3.4 4.4 4.9 4.5 6.5 4.6 4.6

West Virginia [15] 2.5 2.2 3.2 4.0 3.8 4.5 4.5 3.6 3.7 4.6 4.6

Ohio [15] 3.7 4.0 4.6 4.6 4.4 5.1 4.7 4.6 4.8 4.5 4.5

Virginia [15] 5.7 5.1 5.3 5.6 5.2 6.1 5.3 5.4 4.7 4.4 4.4

Kansas [15] 6.3 3.4 2.9 4.6 4.5 3.7 4.6 3.9 4.0 4.2 4.2

Kentucky [15] 4.8 4.4 4.7 4.4 5.7 4.6 4.2 5.1 4.7 4.1 4.1

New York [15] 5.0 5.0 4.8 4.9 4.6 4.5 4.8 4.2 4.3 4.0 4.0

New Jersey [15] 3.4 3.9 4.0 4.7 4.5 4.8 4.9 4.4 4.3 3.7 3.7

Colorado [15] 3.1 3.6 4.0 4.1 4.4 3.7 3.6 3.2 3.2 3.5 3.5

Alaska [15] 4.3 6.2 5.1 6.0 5.6 4.8 5.4 6.4 3.9 3.1 3.1

Connecticut [15] 2.9 3.1 2.4 3.2 2.9 3.0 3.9 3.2 3.8 3.0 3.0

Montana [15] 2.2 3.8 1.8 3.3 3.2 1.9 3.6 2.4 3.4 2.9 2.9

Rhode Island [15] 4.3 3.7 3.8 2.3 2.4 3.2 2.5 1.8 2.9 2.9 2.9

Washington [15] 3.3 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.1 3.3 3.1 2.7 2.9 2.7 2.7

Massachusetts [15] 2.0 2.2 2.7 2.2 2.7 2.8 2.9 2.9 2.6 2.6 2.6

South Dakota [15] 0.9 0.9 1.4 1.3 2.2 2.3 3.7 3.9 4.6 2.6 2.6

Wisconsin [15] 3.2 3.6 2.8 3.3 2.8 3.7 3.0 3.3 2.6 2.5 2.5

Wyoming [15] 2.4 1.8 3.0 2.8 2.2 2.8 2.5 4.0 2.3 2.4 2.4

Nebraska [15] 3.7 2.5 2.8 3.2 2.3 2.5 3.0 3.9 3.9 2.2 2.2

Oregon [15] 2.0 2.4 2.0 1.9 2.5 2.2 2.4 2.0 2.2 2.2 2.2

Maine [15] 1.2 1.5 1.1 1.2 1.4 1.4 1.7 1.5 2.3 2.0 2.0

Hawaii [15] 2.9 2.6 1.9 1.8 2.6 1.9 1.6 1.9 2.0 1.7 1.7

North Dakota [15] 0.6 1.1 0.8 1.4 1.3 1.9 1.3 2.2 0.8 1.5 1.5

Idaho [15] 1.2 2.3 2.7 1.9 2.2 2.4 2.2 3.3 1.5 1.4 1.4

Minnesota [15] 3.1 2.4 2.2 2.5 2.2 2.2 2.5 2.2 2.1 1.4 1.4

Utah [15] 1.9 2.9 2.0 2.6 1.9 2.2 2.0 2.2 1.5 1.3 1.3

Iowa [15] 1.6 1.7 1.5 1.7 1.5 1.3 1.9 1.3 2.6 1.1 1.1

Vermont [15] 1.5 1.1 2.1 2.4 2.6 1.3 2.2 2.1 2.7 1.1 1.1

New Hampshire [15] 1.8 1.3 0.9 1.3 1.3 1.5 1.0 0.9 1.1 0.8 0.8

Guam [17] 4.9 5.4 4.2 6.4 0.6 0.6

[valentsgrif]

I've resisted opening this thread for a week because I'm sick of the never ending news coverage of the funerals and perp's biography. I didn't need more morbid, navel gazing voyeuristic stories. Any childs death is tragic, but the nonstop attention is "over the top" exploitation by the media and politicians. I believe that this attention will foster the killing impulse in some future mental defective who also wishes to obtain immortality and impose pain on society.

Having seen how this well intentioned thread has de-evolved, I'll add a few sinkers of my own. Every statistic cited so far, comparing and contrasting this versus that regarding gun deaths is useless. Simply put, these comparisons fail to take in to account the lives saved by the private ownership of firearms in America.

The defensive use of firearms is routinely overlooked. Why? Because most self defense use occur without the firing of a single shot! And the incident rarely if ever makes any police or FBI statistic because of this factor. When the jewler in a store in a bad neighborhood conducts his business with a pistol on his hip, the potential assailants who bypass this armed citizen as a victim are not counted. Just the mere presence of the weapon deterred an event without a stat. An woman who arms herself with a gun in addition to a protective order is able to let her stalker know that she will not be a victim and if her sociopath ex boyfried refrains from attacking her- no stat. If I run off someone who is breaking into my garage, there's no body, no stat. So the lives saved are not ready calculated.

It has been reported that annual US gun defense uses amount in the hundreds of thousands, out pacing murders by multiples of eight to tenfold. Even self defense uses where there is a shot fired by the good guy rarely get the press exposure that the criminal shootings bring. Just last week, days after the Newton shooting, a home invasion by three perpsin California was repelled by the homeowner. He shot all of them.http://www.news10.net/news/article/2...t-neighborhood Such an incident received little to no national coverage, apart from circulation in progun blogs. The press rarely reports these incidents the way they do the heartless tragedies, usually confining self defense shootings to two inch reports on page 23 under "police blotter". So the impression is that guns arn't useful for self preservation and that we are awash in criminal attacks. The actual cost-benefit ratio falls way on the side of privately owned, citizen held firearms.http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/pa...fense_2000.pdf

[FretFiend.]

You are absolutely correct on all points. Unfortunately, your voice will be drowned out by all the braying of the self righteous liberal jackasses here.

[Michael Martin]

All I have to say is that my right to bare arms shall not be infringed!!!