Band Promotion - A Couple of Questions

[stork1122]

Ok, so is there a guy in a high rise building somewhere with a half lit cigar hanging out of his mouth deciding on what is cool and what is not?

 

I have a band and we just recorded a 4 song EP and I think we have one song that deserves some attention. Were on amazon, itunes, facebook, and a million other places but how do i get heard? How do I get heavy hitters to listen to our tunes? I seriously think its every bit as good as some of the garbage ive heard on modern rock radio. Maybe some people with experience can help me out a little bit. Thanks.

[niceguy]

Well, here's the thing: if it's TRULY as good as you say it is, then it WILL develop a following. It make take awhile, but if it's really that good---like, better than 99.9% of unknown artists---then people will start sharing it, blogging about it, etc. It's frustrating, but there's little else you can do, because I'm assuming you're not a millionaire who can fund a real promo campaign.

 

Make sure it's on YouTube, too, even if the video is just a static image of cover art with the song playing.

 

If you wanna throw some cash around, consider doing a promo campaign with Grooveshark. Drop a couple hundred bucks into it, and they'll give you a set number of spins. You'll get feedback from actual listeners, so you can see likes, dislikes, and you even get comments. Then, you can crunch the data, which I highly recommend you do. If you aren't good with statistics, then get someone scientific or math-oriented to help out. No use shooting in the dark; you need to analyze your data the way ANY start-up company analyzes data.

 

Um, that's it. But if it's good, like it's as good as Phoenix's "Wolfgang" album, then people will hear it, rest assured.

 

If it's anything less than that good, then it'll never truly catch on, no matter how much time/money you put into promo.

 

Good luck

[stork1122]

Thanks niceguy. That makes me a little more comfortable about what were doing. It seems like we have a bunch of baits in the water, were just waiting on something to bite. Your post was extremely helpful.

 

Is there a place where I can get an honest album review? I am admittedly out of touch with popular music and our stuff might be a complete dud, but I don't really know.

[niceguy]

 

Is there a place where I can get an honest album review? I am admittedly out of touch with popular music and our stuff might be a complete dud, but I don't really know.

 

 

You can try places like Stereogum, Pitchfork, and Gorilla vs Bear, but you will NEVER hear back from them. The indie scene is built on the illusion of authenticity, but it's no different from the pop scene: money talks.

 

Lots of music blogs would be willing to review you, but from my experience, these blogs are either not read by anyone, or they just give glowing reviews to EVERYONE. Blog reviews aren't really worth it.

 

The best route is to take it directly to the listeners. Again, from experience, a good way to get direct feedback from listeners is through Grooveshark. Your song will get inserted into listener playlists, and the listener can click "love it" or "hate it" and they can leave a comment, too. You'll get actual, hard data this way.

 

Otherwise, you just gotta leave it on all the usual online spots and see what happens. The internet is how new music is discovered these days---the live scene is a wasteland. Hell, I'm a musician and I live in NYC, yet I never, ever, ever go to shows featuring unknown bands. Why the {censored} would I pay cover to see some kids who in all likelihood suck, when instead I could go to a nice bar and have a good time?

 

All the people who will tell you, "gig, gig, GIG!" are from a different era. NO ONE GIVES A {censored} ABOUT LIVE ORIGINAL ROCK MUSIC. Playing shows cultivates an existing audience; it doesn't build an audience out of nothing.

[Johnny-Boy]

The heavy-hitters won't consider you until you have an ass-kicking self-supporting act, a huge fan base, sizable independent record sales, a great video, and yes fantastic well-recorded songs. It's not good enough to have music as good as you hear on the radio. It's got to be better and different (but not too different). Even after signing with the Majors, it's only a very small percentage of acts that get promoted by the record company.

 

If you do have broadcast quality recordings, you may want to consider the music library route. Kind of a back door into the Industry via film placements.

 

Good luck, John:cool:

[stork1122]

Yea I agree on the whole "gig, gig, gig" thing. I always feel like I'm just spinning my wheels when I play gigs, and the crowds are almost never supportive. It just doesnt make sense. The bars in Dallas all want u to play 4 he sets anyways and they want ALL covers. It's just so sad. Thanks for all the insight. It might be worth the money to invest on grooveshark if I can get feedback like that. It would probably save me a lot of time trying to figure out what people want to hear. I play music because I enjoy playing music but at the same time it would be nice if other people were receptive to our stuff.

 

Can u tell me a little bit more about the music library route? Our recording are from the best studio in Dallas (yes we paid for them big time). We have a couple of songs that would be great (IMO) for a horror movie. They build a lot of suspense.

[Johnny-Boy]

Here's a great site to inform you about music libraries - http://www.musiclibraryreport.com/ . This site used to be free, but now there's a charge to view the different libraries. However much of the general info about music libraries is still free on the site. When you want specific info on their list of libraries you can join for short periods (1-2 weeks) to gather the info.

 

A music library is really publishers that can get your music into film and TV. They usually split the licensing fee 50/50 with the artist/writer and the writer keeps the writer's PRO royalties (publisher gets the publisher's PRO royalties).

[3shiftgtr]

 

All the people who will tell you, "gig, gig, GIG!" are from a different era. NO ONE GIVES A {censored} ABOUT LIVE ORIGINAL ROCK MUSIC. Playing shows cultivates an existing audience; it doesn't build an audience out of nothing.

 

 

HUGE horse pile.

 

No one EVER gave a {censored} about live original rock music. People went to see a band for no reason when? NEVER! The sole reason you gig is that it give you incentive to motivate asses into the seats. That is done with promotion and that happens BEFORE the gig, not AT the gig. If all you do is 'get heard' on the web, and that is the only thing you do, you are only doing 1/2 your job. The gig seals the deal.

 

If you do it right, when you "gig gig gig" it means you "promote promote promote" and that includes doing all the crap you mentioned and a whole bunch of other stuff too. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with an era. It has to do with doing business and selling product, which is what the OP was referring to.

[BlueStrat]

 

It seems like we have a bunch of baits in the water, were just waiting on something to bite. Your post was extremely helpful.

 

 

Have you ever been on a sport fishing boat? Where there are like 60 or 70 guys, all dangling their little anchovy over the side hoping theirs will be selected out of all the rest? That's what you're up against, only instead of 60 or 60 other guys, you're up against millions. Tens of millions. Because of that, having a great track is just not enough. I surf for new music all the time. And it is so overwhelming that I rarely ever listen to more than 20 or so at a sitting. I could spend hours just on the songs starting with A in the genre of Blues, sub-genre Traditional blues, sub-sub genre West Coast or New York or Jump. Now, imagine all the sub genres just in blues, and then all the genres that all exist with their sub and sub-sub genres, and that's just one site, and you start to get the picture. Getting noticed to day is almost a full time job. Like niceguy says, you have to have a great song, but you have to give people a reason to click on your unknown song over all the others.

 

And I disagree that gigging is from a different era. I subscribe to an HD TV package and it comes with the Palladia channel-all footage of live concert performances, like the Glastonbury Festival, Isle of Wight, and lots of other festivals. Most of the band are new bands. No one goes to a festival to hear the band's records played through a sound system. They go to see a live performance. One could argue, though, which comes first- notoriety through popularity of the track, or gigging relentlessly until a fan base is established. I think the argument is irrelevant, as it could be either, or both, or any combination. The point is, like 3shiftgtr said, you have to do all you can do if you want to be heard- promoting, gigging, all of it.

 

Today's music business is a lot different in many respects- for instance, few if any companies sign development deals anymore. That means if they sign you, they expect you to already have management, be regularly touring at least regionally, you have a great live show, you've received some national press, have sold a decent number of CDs/downloads on your own, and basically you can show them that you can step up to the next level with a minimum of money and time invested their part. What hasn't changed is the steps necessary to arrive at that point. It was that way in the 70s, 80s, 90s and now, with the exceptions being bands that came out of thriving "scenes" like were happening at one time in Seattle, Austin, Athens, etc. People like to point to bands like Nirvana and Alice in Chains, etc as bands who were local to a place like Seattle and came out of nowhere to go national, but they fail to mention that there was an incredible scene going on there, and it was the last real scene to have happened, over 20 years ago.

[richardmac]

 

HUGE horse pile. No one EVER gave a {censored} about live original rock music. People went to see a band for no reason when? NEVER! The sole reason you gig is that it give you incentive to motivate asses into the seats. That is done with promotion and that happens BEFORE the gig, not AT the gig. If all you do is 'get heard' on the web, and that is the only thing you do, you are only doing 1/2 your job. The gig seals the deal. If you do it right, when you "gig gig gig" it means you "promote promote promote" and that includes doing all the crap you mentioned and a whole bunch of other stuff too. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with an era. It has to do with doing business and selling product, which is what the OP was referring to.

 

 

People want to take shortcuts. They don't want to do the work of gaining a local following. It's too hard. It's too much work. The only people who ever succeed in the music biz are the ones who work hard, non-stop. If a band can't be bothered with trying to gain a local following, they don't have the work ethic to go anywhere. For every one story of someone who got noticed online, there are a million who didn't.

 

Put in the work, or do it for fun and don't take it so seriously. I would also suggest that people who say you don't need a local following don't have one.

 

Be honest about it. A couple years ago I put out a folk-rock CD and got a little noticed locally. I did radio and tv appearances as well as gigs. And I knew exactly what my plan would be, to map out a three county area and do gigs at bookstores, wine and coffee shops, libraries, any place that would have me where I could sing my story-based songs to people who liked that sort of thing. And once I had the whole thing planned out, I realized that I didn't have that kind of drive or energy in me. AND I have a family, and both of my kids are struggling in school, and they need help every night with homework. Maybe one day when my kids are in college, I'll do it. I don't have a shot at being well known nationally. I do have a shot at being well known in my area. But only with a {censored}load of gigs and hard work. Know thyself. If you're not willing to play gigs where no one shows up but you rock it anyway, you're not cut out for the cutthroat music biz.

[niceguy]

Foster The People reached success without playing a single gig. Yes, they played a lot of shows after they became known. But playing shows isn't what got them noticed in the first place.

 

Just giving a concrete example.

[richardmac]

 

Foster The People reached success without playing a single gig. Yes, they played a lot of shows after they became known. But playing shows isn't what got them noticed in the first place. Just giving a concrete example.

 

 

Manuel Montrond won the Florida Lottery. Just giving a concrete example.

 

Getting a crapload of Internet attention can, if you have a great product that people want, be leveraged into gigs and a following and a career, though likely a short one. It CAN happen. So can winning the lottery. My point being that one example, or hell even one hundred examples is statistically insignificant.

 

But you and I both agree that if the music isn't good, there's no prayer anyway. I'd actually rather say that the music has to be great, not good.

 

I'm not saying "don't promote online" because that would be stupid. Of course you want to do that. Most of all you want to create a fantastic video for YouTube because that's the most likely way to blow up - but every other band out there is trying to do the same thing, so your odds suck. But the odds of blowing up are in the lottery range anyway.

 

So yeah, do all the online promotion. But I am saying that if you can't perform gigs, in your home town, and get people interested, then it is highly likely that your music is not good enough, or that you suck at promotion and need to hire it out. Or both. People want to avoid the whole playing gigs stage because it's a pain in the ass... playing music in front of audiences is a pain in the ass. But wait... isn't that the whole point of this thing?

 

It's this sense of entitlement... "Oh, I don't need to play in front of 20 people down at the Hole In The Wall, because I'm going to blow up on YouTube and then I'll be playing to 10,000 people at a time." It's like everyone thinks they're Prince or something.

 

The shortcuts have always been tempting, like the lottery. Or blowing up online. But if you want a shot at a career, you can't put your chips solely on the lottery. You have to get out there and make it happen.

[3shiftgtr]

 

Foster The People reached success without playing a single gig. Yes, they played a lot of shows after they became known. But playing shows isn't what got them noticed in the first place. Just giving a concrete example.

 

 

Super. The new era has arrived. Now we don't have to do gigs and be stuck in the old era. Thank you Foster The People, thank you. No more pesky gigs, just peck around the web and your in.

[Ronan Murphy]

In the old days the music industry "powers that be" used to search for diamonds in the rough and develop them with hopes of making a tons of money off them. These days it is more a case of the industry looking for artists that are already making money that they can get a piece of, and maybe grow a successful business into something more successful. Of course there are and always have been exceptions.

[BlueStrat]

 

Manuel Montrond won the Florida Lottery. Just giving a concrete example. Getting a crapload of Internet attention can, if you have a great product that people want, be leveraged into gigs and a following and a career, though likely a short one. It CAN happen. So can winning the lottery. My point being that one example, or hell even one hundred examples is statistically insignificant. But you and I both agree that if the music isn't good, there's no prayer anyway. I'd actually rather say that the music has to be great, not good. I'm not saying "don't promote online" because that would be stupid. Of course you want to do that. Most of all you want to create a fantastic video for YouTube because that's the most likely way to blow up - but every other band out there is trying to do the same thing, so your odds suck. But the odds of blowing up are in the lottery range anyway. So yeah, do all the online promotion. But I am saying that if you can't perform gigs, in your home town, and get people interested, then it is highly likely that your music is not good enough, or that you suck at promotion and need to hire it out. Or both. People want to avoid the whole playing gigs stage because it's a pain in the ass... playing music in front of audiences is a pain in the ass. But wait... isn't that the whole point of this thing? It's this sense of entitlement... "Oh, I don't need to play in front of 20 people down at the Hole In The Wall, because I'm going to blow up on YouTube and then I'll be playing to 10,000 people at a time." It's like everyone thinks they're Prince or something. The shortcuts have always been tempting, like the lottery. Or blowing up online. But if you want a shot at a career, you can't put your chips solely on the lottery. You have to get out there and make it happen.

 

 

 

Playing live accomplishes many things-

1-it tests your songs and lets an audience determine if they're any good or not.

2-it tightens up those songs and lets them evolve into stronger pieces of music.

3-it teaches the band how to perform

4-it teaches the band how business works

5-it strengthens the band as a unit

 

lots of others, too, but that's a good start. Imagine a college grad saying "well, I have studied my whole life to get an MBA, so I'm not going to go to work as a junior officer in a company. I'm going to keep sending resumes out until I get a shot at CEO." My dear old dad used to wacth me play some dismal gigs for small crowds when I was young. I'd get discouraged and he's day "Son, if you can't put on a show for 20 people, you won't do it for 20,000."

[richardmac]

Really good advice, Pat.

 

To spin the conversation another way, I think too many musicians are looking to make their band a vehicle to fortune and fame, as opposed to having fun playing music. They put such pressure on themselves and they attach their sense of self worth to it. Imagine attaching your sense of self worth to a lottery ticket.

[Johnny-Boy]

 

Really good advice, Pat. To spin the conversation another way, I think too many musicians are looking to make their band a vehicle to fortune and fame, as opposed to having fun playing music. They put such pressure on themselves and they attach their sense of self worth to it. Imagine attaching your sense of self worth to a lottery ticket.

 

 

Good point Richard! If you're not being rewarded enough just from creating music, better find a new hobby. Regardless of talent, only a very few artists/composers are going to make a living from it or gain any significant fame. Just enjoy the ride. And if you're one of the select successful ones, good for you.

 

John:)

[Nijyo]

 

Foster The People reached success without playing a single gig. Yes, they played a lot of shows after they became known. But playing shows isn't what got them noticed in the first place. Just giving a concrete example.

 

 

Foster the People was played hourly on Sirius/XM AltNation for a year before they started poking into the Billboard charts. That's a pretty hefty bit of marketing.

[Dcodr]

Stork, who are you trying to get your music to? The "Heavy hitters" you reference or fans who will buy your music?

 

Ive read a lot of good advice in this thread, but knowing who you are targeting to listen to your stuff is HUGELY important in determining what to do next. If your looking for an experienced pro to listen to your music, set up a free band profile on Musicpage and then message me when your done. Id be happy to give it a listen and give you honest feedback. I do it for our members all the time. Plus our profiles put you in a place where music pros go looking for up and coming artists, so you may get that cigar chewing fat bastard to listen as well.

 

One more thing about the "Heavy Hitters," They are not one big homogeneous group that act and think the same way (Although sometimes it does feel that way). So id be wary of any "rule" to get attention (do this, then thins, then this). Each song and artist are unique, as are the evaluations done for each one. As it should be. The days of a label automatically fighting to sign you because you sold 40,000+ units are gone (Although moving that number will certainly get you some industry buzz).

 

Bluestrat brought up a great point though. Artist development, at least from labels, is a thing of the past. Bands like U2 or REM probably wouldnt have anywhere the same success if they started out today. That said, quality music is the most important thing. It will not guarantee you success, but it certainly increases your odds. Unfortunately I have managed bands that had the talent, but didnt get the right breaks. Timing is not something only important when you play. Lady luck is always a great person to have riding shotgun. But if the music is bad, no amount of luck is going to help.

 

I think RichardMac was on to something about not taking shortcuts. Bands today have an instant gratification jones (well not just bands) that can stunt development. Doing what you love, enjoy playing music and being true to yourself is the best course to take. If you get mad success, great. But if you love what your doing and are self satisfied, you will find the ride much more enjoyable than chasing what someone else thinks is important.

[Dingoist]

Don't forget to push on the college scene -- I was an editor for the campus newspaper way way back, and a D.J. on the college radio station. Getting traction on both those places will help grow audiences and following. It's a small step.

 

Let's see, outside of receiving, reviewing and playing (at that time) cassettes of lots of bands, several that crossed my desk were things the the Barenaked Ladies original self published EP, and the Counting Crows (though that was already on a label but was fairly unknown at the time).

 

Plenty of good artists got promoted that way, some to relatively good success (Sloan), some to medium level (The Hardship Post got signed to SubPop but ended up into obscurity after) and plenty that never got much further.

 

There is no short cut to lessen the hard work that needs to go into it. I never did pursue music to make it big directly, though I still play and until the local bar I play in weekly started having big money troubles, they wanted us to be the regular Friday players. I did pursue writing entertainment journalism for a few years, and have interviewed and have written about some fairly big name acts but I got out of that game over a decade ago (okay, close to two decades).

 

If spending a few years as a professional writer taught me a few things, it is to stick to your commitments. Push yourself and hope you catch that break. One thing that I kick myself for, is that I had a chance to be a columnist for Details magazine if I just persisted. My problem is that I procrastinated, didn't network it and quickly fell back into relative obscurity. I should never have let that opportunity slide but alas, I was young, foolish and did not realize that I had to seize that time because it may not have again so easily which it didn't.