Okay... here's the situation. What should I do next???

[Kreatorkind]

I am wrapping up recording of an album that will be self-released. It consists of 12 songs that I wrote. I performed everything on the album except for some bass parts and some guitar parts performed by two other people.

 

Okay, so here's my questions:

 

1. Assuming the album sells (I'm putting it on bandcamp and maybe sell physical CDs and digital downloads through tunecore to get on iTunes and such)... What is a fair way to split the profits between me (the songwriter and principal performer/producer) and the other players on the album?

 

2. I know I need to register the copyright. But, does someone who contributes basslines or guitar solos also get counted as songwriters?

 

3. Should I start looking for management? I don't really plan on touring or booking gigs. I just want to record and release albums.

 

4. How important is it that I get the album mastered by someone else? Does anyone have a ball-park figure of how much it would cost to get an hour-long album mastered?

 

That's all I can think of for now. Any advice would be very helpful. Thanks!

 

Matt.

[richardmac]

1. The problem is that you've already had the work done. You're supposed to decide on compensation for the players before you record them, not after. Traditionally, "hired guns" for an album get paid hourly or perhaps per day or per session. In some cases, friends will put down parts for each other and not expect compensation, but they may expect to be listed in the album credits. If you said anything to them already, that would constitute a verbal agreement and technically they could hold you to it. You need to talk to these players - offer them either X dollars, or maybe x dollars out of the net profit.

 

2. You don't need to copyright your music - it's copyrighted by nature of you creating it. But it's a good idea to copyright it to have proof that it's yours. This way if a major artist steals one of your songs and it becomes a massive international hit, you can sue them. The person who writes the songs is the person who should copyright them. But I'll let someone else respond to the idea of submitting the recorded music for copyright, when the players have not signed any contracts. I'm not sure.

 

3. You should not bother looking for management until you're selling tons of music on your own, because they will not be interested in you until you've proven you can make money.

 

4. Mastering matters, but for a self released CD, is it worth it to hire it out? It depends on how much money you have, how good you are at mastering, and how seriously you're going to try to sell it. At a minimum the songs need to be in a good order, they need to be the same volume level overall, and they need to be able to be played on a variety of systems and still sound good. In terms of what you can pay, you can pay anywhere from $50 per song to God knows what the top pros charge. If you don't know what you're doing, it's not a bad idea to let someone else do it for you.

[Kreatorkind]

1. The problem is that you've already had the work done. You're supposed to decide on compensation for the players before you record them, not after. Traditionally, "hired guns" for an album get paid hourly or perhaps per day or per session. In some cases, friends will put down parts for each other and not expect compensation, but they may expect to be listed in the album credits. If you said anything to them already, that would constitute a verbal agreement and technically they could hold you to it. You need to talk to these players - offer them either X dollars, or maybe x dollars out of the net profit. 2. You don't need to copyright your music - it's copyrighted by nature of you creating it. But it's a good idea to copyright it to have proof that it's yours. This way if a major artist steals one of your songs and it becomes a massive international hit, you can sue them. The person who writes the songs is the person who should copyright them. But I'll let someone else respond to the idea of submitting the recorded music for copyright, when the players have not signed any contracts. I'm not sure. 3. You should not bother looking for management until you're selling tons of music on your own, because they will not be interested in you until you've proven you can make money. 4. Mastering matters, but for a self released CD, is it worth it to hire it out? It depends on how much money you have, how good you are at mastering, and how seriously you're going to try to sell it. At a minimum the songs need to be in a good order, they need to be the same volume level overall, and they need to be able to be played on a variety of systems and still sound good. In terms of what you can pay, you can pay anywhere from $50 per song to God knows what the top pros charge. If you don't know what you're doing, it's not a bad idea to let someone else do it for you.

 

Thanks for the reply! I know I already own the copyright... that's why I said "register"

 

I am capable of making sure the tracks sound consistent and I check the mixes out on several sources. (boomboxes, car stereos, studio monitors, laptop speakers... anything else I can find... even the TV.)

 

As far as compensation to the other players, that hasn't been discussed, but I'd like to know generally how a band would split the profits. I just don't want to be unfair or insulting to them or their contributions.

[Surrealistic]

There doesn't seem to be a general rule that everyone follows for this kind of thing. Personally I'd split the profits from actual album sales across the musicians based on how much they contributed - always assuming (as in this case) that I hadn't given them a hired-gun kind of contract in the first place. So if someone played guitar on a track, as one of 6 contributors, they'd get a 6th of the profits for that track. If you made 3 contributions (e.g. guitar, keys and vocals) you'd get that 6th multiplied by 3 etc

 

You may think you should get more as the songwriter, but remember you'll also get royalties for the songs themselves if you're registered with an appropriate agency (ASCAP, BMI, PRS). Of course many people in your shoes would pay the minimum they think they can get away with so it's your call.

[Kreatorkind]

 

There doesn't seem to be a general rule that everyone follows for this kind of thing. Personally I'd split the profits from actual album sales across the musicians based on how much they contributed - always assuming (as in this case) that I hadn't given them a hired-gun kind of contract in the first place. So if someone played guitar on a track, as one of 6 contributors, they'd get a 6th of the profits for that track. If you made 3 contributions (e.g. guitar, keys and vocals) you'd get that 6th multiplied by 3 etc You may think you should get more as the songwriter, but remember you'll also get royalties for the songs themselves if you're registered with an appropriate agency (ASCAP, BMI, PRS). Of course many people in your shoes would pay the minimum they think they can get away with so it's your call.

 

 

I dunno... it's a bit complicated. The other two are more than hired guns, but their contributions didn't really change any of the songs at all... I could have done everything myself and been just as happy. But, they did work hard on it and I appreciate their involvement. Here's what I was thinking, and tell me if this seems wrong or greedy or fair or whatever:

 

As the songwriter/producer/guitarist/singer/keyboardist/drummer/only reason this project exists in the first place, I would take 50% of the profit off the top. The remaining 50% would be split up between the three of us evenly. So, if we get $10 for an album sale, $5.00 would be split between the three of us (roughly $1.66) and I would get the remaining $5.00.

 

Does this sound fair? or am I being a dick?

[Johnny-Boy]

I am wrapping up recording of an album that will be self-released. It consists of 12 songs that I wrote. I performed everything on the album except for some bass parts and some guitar parts performed by two other people. Okay, so here's my questions: 1. Assuming the album sells (I'm putting it on bandcamp and maybe sell physical CDs and digital downloads through tunecore to get on iTunes and such)... What is a fair way to split the profits between me (the songwriter and principal performer/producer) and the other players on the album? 2. I know I need to register the copyright. But, does someone who contributes basslines or guitar solos also get counted as songwriters? 3. Should I start looking for management? I don't really plan on touring or booking gigs. I just want to record and release albums. 4. How important is it that I get the album mastered by someone else? Does anyone have a ball-park figure of how much it would cost to get an hour-long album mastered? That's all I can think of for now. Any advice would be very helpful. Thanks! Matt.

 

Songwriter is entitled to 9.1¢ per song or 1.75¢ per minute for songs over 5 minutes for each copy sold (mechanicals). Also the songwriter is entitled to PRO royalties if applicable.

 

Copyright consists of lyrics & melody (bass lines/ guitar solos don't count).

 

If you're not going to perform, a manager would be a waste of money.

 

Recording and releasing albums isn't generally a profitable enterprise. Everybody and their grandmothers are doing it. Touring is where the money is at. You'll sell more CD's at your show than you will downloads on the Net. You could also try Music libraries with your finished products.

 

Mastering varies greatly in pricing and quality. Impossible to answer.

 

You should pay your bass and guitar session players upfront. Then have them sign a release form, freeing you from any future financial obligations with them.

 

Good luck, John

[NeverTheMachine]

 

Songwriter is entitled to 9.1¢ per song or 1.75¢ per minute for songs over 5 minutes for each copy sold (mechanicals). Also the songwriter is entitled to PRO royalties if applicable. Copyright consists of lyrics & melody (bass lines/ guitar solos don't count).

 

 

 

Who keeps track of mechanical royalties exactly? and what are the needfuls the songwriter should do before releasing?

 

I guess it would be a job for the record label, but in this case the record label is the artist ... is the artist responsible for taking his wad of 9.1cents out of every single sold? I assume these royalties come from the sales itself right? Not some universal songwriter jar of cash ...

[Johnny-Boy]

Normally the record company pays mechanicals to the publisher, then in turn pays the writers their share. Often publishers will take 50% of the mechanicals. In Matt's situation, he's the record company and publisher. So yes, Matt should take his 9.1 cents directly from sales.

 

Publishers often use the Harry Fox Agency (HFA) to distribute mechanical royalties and synchronization fees (among other services).

 

John:cool:

[sventvkg]

 

I am wrapping up recording of an album that will be self-released. It consists of 12 songs that I wrote. I performed everything on the album except for some bass parts and some guitar parts performed by two other people. Okay, so here's my questions: 1. Assuming the album sells (I'm putting it on bandcamp and maybe sell physical CDs and digital downloads through tunecore to get on iTunes and such)... What is a fair way to split the profits between me (the songwriter and principal performer/producer) and the other players on the album? 2. I know I need to register the copyright. But, does someone who contributes basslines or guitar solos also get counted as songwriters? 3. Should I start looking for management? I don't really plan on touring or booking gigs. I just want to record and release albums. 4. How important is it that I get the album mastered by someone else? Does anyone have a ball-park figure of how much it would cost to get an hour-long album mastered? That's all I can think of for now. Any advice would be very helpful. Thanks! Matt.

 

 

1. What agreement did you make with the players? Are they getting a piece of sales? If not, then you don't have to give them squat. It's your music/production. It doesn't matter because unless you tour it and and are great, it's not gonna sell much.

 

2. The musicians and their parts played on your song are not copyrightable but I believe the specific SA, which is the sound recording is. Doesn't matter because as Richard and other said, your music is copyrighted already. If you'd like to register it with the Library of Congress, go ahead. I don't do it anymore unless the song is getting pitched because it's become too friggin expensive.

 

3. You don't need management.

 

4. An album from Someone like Brad Blackwood for 12 songs is about $1200 to get mastered. WELL WORTH it if the material is quality. At the very least, have someone else you trust go over it and do final tweaks because you need another set of ears besides your own.

[NeverTheMachine]

This is a thread I've referred to quite a bit over the last few months: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?1187960-10-Things-to-Do-Before-You-Release-Your-Album

 

With regard to mastering, as some have mentioned, it really depends on the music. You can go DIY, but part of the benefit of mastering is having a highly trained, third-parties ear on your music, who's job it is to objectively listen to music. I'd say if you want loud recordings that have dense mixes with quite a few tracks you're better off looking into having it mastered by a professional, or at least semi-pro. The internet is your friend in this case as well.

 

As far as the other stuff goes, traditionally speaking of course melody and lyrics count towards sole copyright, and judging from what you say, you are already the copyright owner and dueful writer. My band goes a step further though and includes certain things that could be considered the "themes" of a song. So if the song starts off with a guitar riff, and the melody and lyrics take off from that, the riff maker would be included as a writer. Similarly, if in the beginning there was a bassline that was undeniable to the groove and vibe of the song, and inspired the rest of it's completion, then the person who played it would get writing credit. That hasn't happened yet though. Another example is if someone has a chord progression that they've been toiling with, and someone else comes in and puts a melody and lyrics to that??.... you get my drift ..

 

What I'm getting at is, even though melody and lyrics are historically the main factors for copyright, this day & age anyone else can claim anything they want .... or so I've been told by my bassist who is in law school and drives me nuts with his scenarios. I think it's best though to just make music and release it, but have the others fill out that release form so you can rest easy.

 

Guitar "solos" however, probably not, unless perhaps the song starts off with a minute long melodic solo that the vocal writer borrows from.

[mpegsucks]

1. You the composer and performer? Its all yours, until you get a deal( then kiss 90% of that away)

 

2. NO!

 

3. Depends what you want to do with your career, and how interested anyone else truly is.

 

4. If its something you spent a lot of time, effort and $ on, then YES, look for a qualified mastering house.

[mpegsucks]

 

Normally the record company pays mechanicals to the publisher, then in turn pays the writers their share. Often publishers will take 50% of the mechanicals. In Matt's situation, he's the record company and publisher. So yes, Matt should take his 9.1 cents directly from sales. Publishers often use the Harry Fox Agency (HFA) to distribute mechanical royalties and synchronization fees (among other services). John:cool:

 

 

Harry Fox is the only agency that surveys and tabulates mechanicals.

[3shiftgtr]

Here's my 2c

 

1) Unless you promised the musicians a split from the start, sell and keep until your expenses are paid. Then drop them some cash on them if ya want to. But as long as nothing is on paper, you haven't committed anything. If you DO give them money, and it DOES take off, a court will see payment as a defacto admittance of verbal contract. Make sure that doesn't come back on you.

 

2) No. A solo does not count as songwriting. And until you sell at least 1500 hard copies, don't worry about copyright. If you are planning on pitching the songs, or offering them for licensing (instrumental stuff ususally).it might be a good idea, but doesn't look like that is what you are going for. So don't worry for now.

 

3) No management. Until you get near the 'obscurity line', real management wont want to touch you, anyway.

 

4) Master it if you care about what it sounds like. Lots of folks get it mastered for cda files and mastered for mp3 & mp4a files seperately.....and it can cost anywhere from $150 to $2k....vanity projects can be pretty cheap tho....plan on $200-500.

 

And what the other guys said......

[Kreatorkind]

Well, thank you for your responses!

 

The consensus between the other two players is this: "Matt, you've done the majority of the work here in writing/producing and I think you should be the one to reap the rewards. Consider my input on this first album as gratis with no expectation of future payouts. If this thing blows up, I'll have my agent contact you to negotiate my terms for the second album." - the guitarist. "I can tell you I don't want a penny from this. Throw my end back into promoting this." - the bassist.

 

So, I guess that's my answer. Of course if this does do well and there is some profit, I will share it with the two of them, but it's nice to know that they feel so strongly about wanting to promote this and for it to do well regardless of what money the may make from it.

[kmart]

http://www.chicagomasteringservice.com/engineers.html#bobweston

You're welcome.