Members geek_usa Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 I hope it differs in that everybody is nice to everyone here instead of being so cocksure about everything; so many "engineers" (or whatever you want to call them) in the Rec. forum are so headstrong it makes me sick. This looks interesting to say the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hi geek_usa! Consider The Trenches (and the other new forums) not as replacements for the existing HC forums, but as additions to them. The example that Craig Anderton (all around music industry and publishing legend, and the moderator of the SSS forum) likes to use is cable TV... your friendly local "cable company" has just added some new channels. Hopefully some people will like the new options... but they're just that - options. Watch the channels you like. More "channels" = more options = "more good". I'm one of the Musicplayer transplants. And those who know me from over there know I tend to run a pretty tight ship in a couple of ways... the first and foremost "rule" is that I expect people to treat each other with mutual respect and courtesy. That doesn't mean that people have to kiss butts or agree on everything - far from it! I expect (and encourage) some lively discussions... but it IS possible to disagree about a product, a technique or approach without resorting to personal attacks on the people who hold a particular POV. So while I can't promise you that there won't be some "headstrong" participants, I do expect everyone to follow the forum mantra - "Be excellent to each other - and party on dudes!" Seriously, give it a few days... I think you'll see what some of the differences between the two forums are in time. If some people enjoy the current Recording forum, that's great - Mark seems like a good guy and he's got quite a community going over there. We're just adding some channels to the selection of choices you already have available - and more choices can be a GOOD thing, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AudioMaverick Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Yep... Geek_USA, expect it to be more of people who are trying to accomplish specific tasks in the studio. That includes the home and project variety, but not limited to. Instead of trying to cite examples, hop over and scan what has been posted -- Phil's *old* forum Hey, Phil! It's like moving to a new house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rim Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 I second AudioMaverick's commendation of Phil. Not that I was there in the "meeting", but I suspect Phil was offered the position of moderating his own forum at the old place due to his enginering talent, level-headedness and even-handedness. It surely wasn't for his hair. Much respect, Phil! - Rim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I always thought they offered me the gig BECAUSE of my excellent hairdoo. Thanks for the kind words guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KHAN Posted July 26, 2005 Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe I always thought they offered me the gig BECAUSE of my excellent hairdoo. More of a hair don't IMO. but when coupled with the excellent technical and PHILisophical advice, it's a lose-win-win situation. And that ain't bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Losing it? Hey Khan, it's already gone! Thanks for the kind words - good to see you over here. Did you bring your smiley collection? We're gonna get IMG tags turned one here RSN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Since some people were asking about this subject over on Mark's forum, I went ahead and posted a link to this thread. As I said, I think options are a good thing. Some people have different POV's and different approaches. I know Mark has done a very good job on his forum, and I congratulate him and appreciate what a good thing he's developed over there. I was asked if I wanted to moderate an additional recording forum, and I accepted. And I'm happy to be here! For those who don't know me, I guess I should do a bit of an introduction... but I'm REALLY bad about "tooting my own horn", so it's something I've been avoiding... In a nutshell, I'm a professional producer / engineer who has been working in studios for over half my life (I'm 42). I've also done some writing - both songwriting as well as music industry related things such as my contributions to EQ, Guitar Player, etc. I have beta tested for several companies, including Waves, Tascam, Yamaha, Digidesign and others. I've made a few records, and have had a lot of fun doing it. It's what I live for - being a part of that great vibe that can happen when music and magic are being created. I consider myself to be very fortunate and blessed. I'm not a huge star "name" cat, but I know more than a few of them, and am fortunate enough to be in a position where I get a lot of "insider" knowledge and advance notice about things passed my way, and I get to check out a LOT of products first hand - and oftentimes, "pre-release". Companies sometimes send me things just to check out and offer my suggestions for improvements or my comments about how it sounds. I even get to buy some of it! That, and my reviewing of gear (both online and for the magazines) allows me to try out a lot of things, which also helps me help other people from time to time. For the last year and a half, I've been the moderator at Musicplayer.com -specifically, for The Project Studio Forum. I consider it a great honor to have been a moderator on the same site as some of my "heroes" - people like Craig Anderton, George Massenburg and all the others. But more importantly, it has given me the opportunity to "pay it forward". When I was first getting started as a producer / engineer, a lot of very knowledgeable people took the time to give me a lot of tips, advice and pointers... and while I was thanking one of those people once, I was told that someday my turn would come and that the best thanks I could give would be to "give back" when that time came. Well, these forums have been an opportunity for me to do a bit of that, and to encourage others to do likewise, and for me, that is by far the greatest reward. We had several recording forums over on Musicplayer, and IMO, that was nearly always a "good thing". Again, different people have different areas of expertise and different backgrounds and approaches, and if I'm able to provide some of you with a little help from time to time, and a bit different perspective to consider, and if we can all have some good discussions and learn from each other, I think this can be a really cool place. But it comes down to all of you too... so please, give us a little while, participate a bit and I think you start to see some natural distinctions and differences between the two forums developing... and again, IMO, that's a "good thing". More channels, more options - more fun! Oh, for those who are curious and would like to check out my studio (really old / out of date site - the new one's on the way) you can check it out at http://www.ssrstudio.com and the new site, which should be up in the next day or two, is at http://www.philokeefe.com I'll also get around to posting links to some of my work eventually. But that's enough about "me" for one day... unless anyone has any other questions - and if so, please feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members geek_usa Posted July 26, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 One thing I've learned guys, is that it doesn't matter how much "experience" or how many "degrees" you have in Recording or Rocket Science. A good attitude is worth a million words and ignites a thousand smiles. An engineer that has nothing but crude things to say is worth nothing, IMO, and although some of us might not be as "experienced", at least we know and practice the most important rule : we use equipment and love people, instead of loving equipment and using people. This is the first step to becoming a good engineer, as you make that connection as a person to another person, not a mixing engineer to a "paying customer". That's why I'm glad this forum exists. I get made fun of quite a bit in the Recording forum over there, I can't figure out why. I think they're jealous of me because perhaps they know they're not as good as they boast themselves up to be, and here I am a lowly aspiring engineer with a poor set up yet still have the ability to make great recordings. I have an uncanny ability to make people smile and I have a great attitude. My mom is one of the most positive people I know and she gets the same treatment from every day people, so that might be an issue as well. So Phil, I'm glad you're moderating. I have nothing against Mark, but he never does anything with the forum. Things get out of hand quite a bit over there. I truly hope this forum is "on the other side" so to speak, of the Recording forum. Cheers ~Jared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted July 26, 2005 Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hi Geek - this is your worst nightmare. If you don't want to be laughed at in this forum too, you are going to have to stop dissing good people like Mark. Hope you guys have a sense of humour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nick Milos Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Phil is one of those rare individuals who is willing to devote precious time to sharing his hard earned knowledge and expertise. I've learned a great deal by mostly "listening in" over at the MusicPlayer forum and am glad to have the opportunity to chime in on this topic over here. Congratulations on your new gig, Phil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Hi Geek - this is your worst nightmare. If you don't want to be laughed at in this forum too, you are going to have to stop dissing good people like Mark. Hope you guys have a sense of humour Hmmmm.... Well, I really didn't see where Geek was dissing Mark. But if someone did that here, I wouldn't be very happy about it. Nor will I be pleased if people start making fun of each other here in any sort of mean-spirited way... especially if they're fairly new to recording and are just trying to get some help. The way I see it, everyone should try to be decent and civil to each other... that's the attitude I want to encourage around here. Just because someone is new, or doesn't have a lot of recording experience, that's no reason to look down our noses at them... rather, it's an opportunity to give back a little bit. Rule #1 around here is "Be excellent to each other". IOW, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rimmer Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Hi geek_usa! Consider The Trenches (and the other new forums) not as replacements for the existing HC forums, but as additions to them. The example that Craig Anderton (all around music industry and publishing legend, and the moderator of the SSS forum) likes to use is cable TV... your friendly local "cable company" has just added some new channels. Hopefully some people will like the new options... but they're just that - options. Watch the channels you like. More "channels" = more options = "more good". Hey Mate.. I am still a little confused as to where this forum sits as a pose to the Recording Forum. It seems a little similar to me and may confused people to where to post their subjects. I suppose it's the fact that the recording forum covers such a large area, that I am a little lost as to whether this forum is in fact more specific about it's intents, or whether it's pretty much the same place, but a different channels.. as you put it.. Regards. Rimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted July 27, 2005 Members Share Posted July 27, 2005 Rule #1 around here is "Be excellent to each other". IOW, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Excellent advice, which I totally agree with. In a forum like this, you get a real mixture of people from all over the globe. Different cultures have a different sense of humor - British humor might be totally lost on Americans, and vice versa. Australian or Kiwi humor can be something else again. I don't have much time for fake, insincere, politically correct niceness all the time. I like to call a spade a spade. I hope I don't upset anybody - that's never my intention. If I say anything that shocks you - consider that maybe it's a cultural difference, or a different sense of humor, even different meanings of words. I don't believe recording producers or engineers are delicate little creatures who need to be treated with kid gloves. The music business is tough, and you can't afford to have a thin skin or a fragile ego. If I say something that is factually incorrect - I hope somebody will correct me. I'm here to learn. I don't view a contrary opinion as an insult. Let's talk about recording ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ArrMatey Posted July 28, 2005 Members Share Posted July 28, 2005 i was thrilled to hear that a new section opened. This seems quite more focused. I hope it stays so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Excellent advice, which I totally agree with. In a forum like this, you get a real mixture of people from all over the globe. Different cultures have a different sense of humor - British humor might be totally lost on Americans, and vice versa. Australian or Kiwi humor can be something else again. Aussies have a sense of humour? I don't have much time for fake, insincere, politically correct niceness all the time. I like to call a spade a spade. I hope I don't upset anybody - that's never my intention. If I say anything that shocks you - consider that maybe it's a cultural difference, or a different sense of humor, even different meanings of words. I am NOT a fan of the current "PC craze". Nor do I expect insincere niceness. And I'm all for cultural diversity. I'll tend to err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and when I'm not certain about what someone means, I'll ask questions first and save the scathing commentary for AFTER the clarification. IOW, I try to see the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. I try not to take things personally unless they're VERY clearly intended that way. I don't believe recording producers or engineers are delicate little creatures who need to be treated with kid gloves. The music business is tough, and you can't afford to have a thin skin or a fragile ego. I certainly agree that it's a tough business, and that egos can get bruised fairly easily in this line of work. However, artists can have incredibly fragile egos, and IMO, engineers and producers, while usually a bit thicker skinned, have issues there too. I'm not the greatest engineer in the world, nor the greatest producer... but IMO, one thing that I CAN do fairly well that seperates me from some of my peers is that I'm pretty good at interacting with people - artists / musicians, other engineers, producers, label folks - whatever. I can express concerns about something in such a way as to address the ISSUE without giving the impression that I'm attacking the INDIVIDUAL. IMO, that skill is one of the best tools a producer / engineer can have. I know a GREAT guitarist. Stunning player with great time and feel, amazing chops, stunning tone... but the guy is a PITA to work with. Based on his skills as a player, he could get all kinds of session work, but he can't follow direction, and he argues about everything. A lot of producers won't work with the guy simply because he totally kills the vibe of the session and is so difficult to work with. While I envy his technical skills, I certainly don't want to be that guy. If I say something that is factually incorrect - I hope somebody will correct me. I'm here to learn. I don't view a contrary opinion as an insult. I completely agree. However, some things in this line of work are subjective, and there is no "right or wrong" answer. Look at the Zep II thread - some people might think that album sounds muddy and unclear, while others might think it's perfect the way it is. Opinions about such things are always valid, even if I (or anyone else) disagrees. Other things, such as technical issues (say, the speed of sound) and NOT subjective, and can be stated with a fair degree of certainty... although even that varies with environmental conditions such as elevation, etc. But the thing is, if someone posts that the speed of sound through air is 765 feet per second, we can respond in a way that corrects the error without making the person feel like they're being attacked or insulted: Response A: No you twit, it's 1,130 FPS, NOT 765 FPS. And you say you're an engineer? You're an IDIOT! Response B: Actually Jim, I think your numbers are a bit off and that is messing up your calculations... the actual speed of sound through air is about 1,130 FPS, which means that sound will cover about 1.13 feet per millisecond... See the difference? Both are factually correct answers, but one is acceptable around here while the other one is not due to the personal insults / ad hominem attacks. IOW, it's possible to disagree while treating other people with respect, and it's possible to correct without being insulting or making personal attacks. Let's talk about recording ... Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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